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Republican_Man
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 12:47 am    

Oh, and while we're getting rid of morals, why don't we just do what Planned Parenthood did, and teach a bunch of Girl Scouts how to *beep*...And teach students all about condomns. And promote teenage abortions without parental permission (unless, of course, their is proof that the parent(s) will beat them). And let's just be the ACLU and COMPLETLEY secularize the country and get rid of religion in all forms. Let's go teach out 5 year olds about sex and rape 'em. Let's do it!
There was sarcasm completely there, but that would be a de-moralized society, and those are instances that have happened or would happen, as disgusting as they may be. This isn't just a debate about censoring inapporpriate content--it's about morals.



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Arellia
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 1:40 am    

Republican_Man wrote:
Oh, and while we're getting rid of morals, why don't we just do what Planned Parenthood did, and teach a bunch of Girl Scouts how to *beep*...And teach students all about condomns. And promote teenage abortions without parental permission (unless, of course, their is proof that the parent(s) will beat them). And let's just be the ACLU and COMPLETLEY secularize the country and get rid of religion in all forms. Let's go teach out 5 year olds about sex and rape 'em. Let's do it!
There was sarcasm completely there, but that would be a de-moralized society, and those are instances that have happened or would happen, as disgusting as they may be. This isn't just a debate about censoring inapporpriate content--it's about morals.


Go RM. The way sexuality is taught is NOT right. When I was in public school, kids were talking about what sex was at 6 years old--in a SMALL-TOWN school! Talk about crazy. And might I tell you, it wasn't innocent. Ever seen a curious six-year-old with the opposite sex, who only knows what he's seen on TV? Heh. I don't recommend it. I've seen situations that were totally OFF, and it WAS because of the stuff they saw on television. Kids with caring parents, who were oblivious to the fact their children were learning too much, and from the wrong sources. And what do you make of first graders telling their classmates that they're gay or lesbian, just because they're close with thier best friend?! Yeah, it DOES happen. And it's backwards. (Seriously. I was accused of it. ACK.) And teaching "safe sex" is total...well, I won't say it, I hate to cuss. Locally, my church is working on a total abstinence program, until kids are old enough (Of course). I'm glad they are. It's a small piece of sanity. This choice is not obvious to those composing textbooks? BAH.



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Hitchhiker
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 8:15 am    

Hmm . . . it's interesting how this topic has gone off on a rather . . . heated tangent.

Since we're on the subject of sexual education . . .

. . . we need more of it.

I know I'm going to bludgeon myself later, but really. Because you can't get rid of the media--it's everywhere, and censoring won't do a whole lot of good--you need your kids to be well informed. The best way is to teach them while they are young--don't pretend that sex doesn't exist. Incorporate it as a normal bodily function: we teach our kids about drugs in school, should we stop educating them about that?

(That last colon was thrown in just to break up the monotony of those dashes.)

Ignorance is not bliss, although I like to think so. It's all about control nowadays, and if you leave it up to the media to teach your children about sexuality, then they will get the wrong message, and that's a dangerous thing.

I believe in abstinence and celibacy until marriage, seriously. But I also believe that children should know about it in order to prevent them being taught it the wrong way.

We might as well not allow Star Trek on TV, as the prostethics might frighten children if they are channel flipping alone at home

When censoring you shouldn't get extremist because then you run into two problems. 1) The general public doesn't like it. 2) The media doesn't like it. Now since the public and the media hold a lot of market power, this can create difficulties.

Oh . . . and we can't show any more footage from Iraq . . . kids watching the evening news might be terrified of all that blood and gore; cigarette pictures are definitely out since we don't want our kids smoking.


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Five - seveN
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 9:44 am    

ARGH! Cut it, RM! Just don't air the damn what-you-call-immoral movies before 9, 10 pm or so! And who says we don't want any morals? If a kid sees a naked man, do you think the kid will become a terrorist? Jus like Hitchhiker said, no. It's more likely the kid will become a terrorist if it never sees anything horrible or sexual. Just because it doesn't know how to handle certain things.

[edit]

Republican_Man wrote:
And teach students all about condomns.

I (seriously) think you should do that, yes. If everybody used condoms, what do we need abortion for? Think about it, man. Open your front door.


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Jeremy
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 12:29 pm    

Hey, can you please calm down! I know that the issues of what is and isn't morals works us up a lot, but try and think before your posts. Thanks

I don't think RM was saying that kids would turn into terrorists if they saw someone naked, rather that it is wrong. And neither will someone become a terrorist because they don't see something.

What is a better way of stopping abortions and STDs? Not having sex or condoms? Sure, I know that some people will have sex anyway if there is no condoms and that they are at a big risk, but from my experience in school (at the moment) there is nothing about not having sex. It's all about take the pill, condoms etc but not actually the best way is not to have sex. It hasn't been mentioned once in all my school years and I'm in my last year before I have to leave, so you can't say it will come later.


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Hitchhiker
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 12:34 pm    

Jeremy wrote:
What is a better way of stopping abortions and STDs? Not having sex or condoms? Sure, I know that some people will have sex anyway if there is no condoms and that they are at a big risk, but from my experience in school (at the moment) there is nothing about not having sex. It's all about take the pill, condoms etc but not actually the best way is not to have sex. It hasn't been mentioned once in all my school years and I'm in my last year before I have to leave, so you can't say it will come later.

That's my point: don't teach just abstinence or just safe sex; teach both and teach them both early in a child's life. This way you're preparing them for life rather than sheltering them or indoctrinating them, you're leaving all doors open.


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Link, the Hero of Time
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 1:43 pm    

Republican_Man wrote:


Oh my gosh! There's just know way to reason with you people...Why don't we just forget morals? Who gives a damn! Allow gays to have sex in parks! Allow kids to be exposed to the F-word all day! Allow kids to see sex and a naked woman and a naked man! Allow kids to watch music videos and listen to music that promotes the beating of women, using drugs, and promotes violence! Just allow it! Do NOT bleep out any words. Forget about the kids. Let the 4 year olds discover sex. Let's just allow Playboy on regular cable.
And somewhat off the subject of censorship but still on morals, allow abortions--including partial-birth abortions. Allow gay marriage. Allow full stem-cell research. Let the death penalty run rampent. Allow prostitution. Legalize marijuana. Have kids put on condomns in health class and be sexually abused word-wised by a teacher that says, "Come on sweety." (Yes, it's happened.)
Let's just expose kids to what they shouldn't be exposed to! Let's become immoral or ammoral! Yes, lets! Forget about morals. Who needs them? Forget about protecting the kids. It's not necessary!



Now lets see... where should I start to tear your argument apart....

Ah lets start with just the basics: CALM DOWN!!!

A child will learn more from his parents, teachers and friends then he will ever learn from watching a T.V, But a child will walk away taking information from all sources and create what he thinks he was being taught.

Do you know RM, that children learn to swear, not from Television as most right winged moralist would want to believe, but from their family members and their friends? Parents want to blame things on the TV just so they have a reason NOT to put the blame on the real problem, THEMSELVES.

Next, nudity is a quinticential part of life. We are born naked, we spend the majority of our baby life naked. Get over it. A parent is supposed to have "The Talk" with their kids when they see that they are becoming aware of themselves. Unfortunetly, most dont and kids have to learn it the hard way. Which by the way is NOT through TV as you would like to believe.

Censorship.... There's a topic I hate to touch, but if I must then I must. Already in the US we have a strangle hold on everything. Censorship is at an all time high and people hate it. When they show good movie on TV it still makes me cringe to here the actor's voice dubbed over by some other person changing what he was supposed to say. It makes me sick. I for one am glad that they shouwed "Saving Private Ryan" unedited and uncut. Did you know that when WWII vets saw that movie they said it was almost like being back on the front lines? or that it was the most realistic War movie made? They showed it unedited and uncut to HONOR those vets. Then everyone gets up in arms about it cause they dont understand. While yes I do believe some things should be censored, We are the most uptight country on this Earth and it makes me sick.

And back to the subject of Rap.... If you dont listen to it, dont talk because you seem to have no idea what you're talking about except what others tell you. Rap is street poetry, that is its roots. There is some rap that is very good, some even you would like.
Example: http://www.gospelflava.com/articles/editorial-jesuswalks.html
There is a rap song out there done by Kanye West, it's called "Jesus Walks" it's a rap song and has minor swearing in it but he openly admits his need for jesus in his life.

And it seems we're back to the subject of Morals... great.

Alright. Abortions first. So the vitims of Rape or of incestual relations should not be allowed to have and abortion? Even though the rape baby will most likely be abandoned, or loveless or even beaten regularly for just existing. I should know, I know a person who was that baby, He now resides in a mental institution. Also, an incestual baby will have the worst genes in it brought out, enter mental retardation, missing or underdeveoped body parts or organs, or even death at a young age due to an underdeveloped immune system.

Gay Marriage. You already know my stance on that. You're discrimintating against gay people. And since homosexual tendencies have been around for Millenia, yes it has been around that long Look at the Spartans, they encouraged it, you cannot say it's something new.

Stem cell research. It should be allowed. It could save the lives of millions. "The needs of ther many outweigh the needs of the few or the one." And who knows, with it we may find they way to kill of cancerous cells once and for all.

Death Penalty. it should be allowed for the major sickos. And since the country is already in a massive debt, it would be easier. Instead of them leeching off of taxpayer's money for the rest of their lives. once shot, done.

Prostitution is already legalized in Vegas. Yes, it is. The place even has a website. Though I think it's wrong and downright dirty. Other believe it's something good.

marijuana. Never touched it, never will. Though I do believe it has Medicinal values and should only be used for that purpose.

Has anyone else noticed that when people see something wrong the first thing said is "Oh my god, think of the children." That's just a way to rationalize their own insecurities. I know since I do not have children of my own, I'm only 20 and I hope that day isn't for at least another 10 years because I'd like to be out of college and grad school, I only know what I have seen hundreds of times and what has been expalined to me by people who have children, that I should not talk, but until peole finally realize their own insecurities about things, "Think of the children" will be something that is used for a long time, But Passing the Buck only goes so far.



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Arellia
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 1:51 pm    

One wonders what happened to the concept of parents teaching their kids about sex, eh? What an idea. The parental part of the equation too many times comes in late. By the time kids are in middle school they already know far more than most parents would probably like to think. (Or, at least, my parents) --edit-- And oddly, in some ways, I agree with what Link said above. Usually, more than the media, it is the parents' fault for letting their kids see it, or for not telling them what they need to know.

I agree that it does have to be taught in schools (I think...I'm not sure I like it, but hey, I don't like the school system to begin with...) but I disagree with how it is taught. And then you get into the lovely conundrum of what to teach kids about same sex...well, sex. Which they're starting to do in California (Don't know about the rest of the U.S., so I won't speak for it). And THAT is certainly not the most calm section of the moral argument...


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Five - seveN
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 2:31 pm    

Jeremy wrote:
Hey, can you please calm down! I know that the issues of what is and isn't morals works us up a lot, but try and think before your posts. Thanks

I don't think RM was saying that kids would turn into terrorists if they saw someone naked, rather that it is wrong. And neither will someone become a terrorist because they don't see something.

What is a better way of stopping abortions and STDs? Not having sex or condoms? Sure, I know that some people will have sex anyway if there is no condoms and that they are at a big risk, but from my experience in school (at the moment) there is nothing about not having sex. It's all about take the pill, condoms etc but not actually the best way is not to have sex. It hasn't been mentioned once in all my school years and I'm in my last year before I have to leave, so you can't say it will come later.

Okay, you're right, I'm too lightly flammable... I know, I know...
But man, we get sexual education (and believe me, that's more than "use a condom, take the pill, okay let's move on to our next subject: the bloodstream'' or sumtin) here in 2nd grade, when we're 13 or 14 years old! I can't imagine how stupid those people [edit: that's not aimed at RM, but at the governments who think of those laws] are thinking it'll all be right wothout sexual education, or, even worse, thinking that sexual education is waaaay to explicit for 13 year-olds... =S


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Valathous
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 4:38 pm    

Link..... You are my hero!

I pretty well agree with most of what Link said. I hate it when shows or music is censored. It is a form of art, it is a form of expression. Generally children won't see nudity because that is on later at night, unless it's just a very quite glimps.

RM, Jeff doesn't need religion in his life..... People need religion taken out of their lives to get rid of terrorism! Maybe then everyone in the middle east will stop declaring Holy Wars (Jihads) against North America.
I stand by it, religion is the source of much evil and war, covered up by it's blanket of over protective "morals" which are too restricting.

People will not say swear words because they hear it on TV or in the music they listen to. It will come from who they look up to, like parents, big brothers/sisters or friends. People are not losing morals for saying words that are found in the dictionary!

What's so bad about seeing a naked man or woman? Have you ever showered? I'm sure you already know what it looks like. Then oh no! What about breast feeding?! We're exposing young children to breasts! nipples! They are even sucking on them?! Sexual acts! oh no!

^That will be the end result as far as I can tell by your views.

Saving Private Ryan..... I've never seen the movie, but I want to. I think it's incredibly stupid to ban a movie depicting how these people fought for our freedoms! The freedoms which you are trying to restrict with all of your censorship and "Culture War."

Gay marriage..... They are people too. They have feelings and are just as sentient as you or me, just as human as you or me, just as caring as you or me, just as deserving of rights as you or me.

Abortions..... A fetus is considered a parasite until birth... It is the woman's choice. I dont like the killing of them, but it is her choice. Rape babies, or crack babies and such. If they are going to die or live a horrid life, dont let them begin life only to suffer.

Stem cell research, the cure to many of man kind's diseases and epidemics! Even Superman (Reeves) thought it was a good idea! It could cure paralysis and spinal cord problems. It is thought that with enough research, we can make limbs and organs (or repair them) just by encoding the genetic material which has not been given a function, within the cell's nucleus.

Sex Ed.... Definately a good thing. Teaches kids about the risks. Showing them how to use a comdom (by using fingers or arms, or vegetables) shows kids how to protect themselves from these risks. It teaches us how our species reproduces. Without sex, there is no human race.


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Captain Dappet
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 4:46 pm    

EXACTLY, I agree with you 100%!

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Arellia
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 5:13 pm    

Funny, Dan...you like all freedoms, except the religious ones? Well, that's nice...

sarcasm



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Valathous
The Canadian, eh


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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 5:19 pm    

I never said you can't have freedom of religion. Go ahead, practice your religion. My argument was take religion out instead of forcing it in, if you want better morals and such for less terrorists. But by all means, practice any religion!

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Arellia
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 5:25 pm    

Valathous wrote:
I never said you can't have freedom of religion. Go ahead, practice your religion. My argument was take religion out instead of forcing it in, if you want better morals and such for less terrorists. But by all means, practice any religion!


...if you want better morals, get religion out of the government. Mm-hm. Yeah. *LAUGHS* ... *coughs* Sorry. This intriguing little thing about practicing religion, but not doing anything about it in how you believe the government should conduct itself is rather amusing. Really. Why would I want to live in a society that eliminates standards that I believe in having? ...I'll give you a hint. The answer is not one that secularists like. I wouldn't want religion imposed on people, either. I wouldn't want it to be mandatory you believe or act some way...but when it comes to certain fundamental aspects, I can't condone things that I find wrong, if they affect more than just the individual themselves.


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Jeremy
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 5:50 pm    

I see that a number of the "liberal" users (don't know what else to say) are assuming that RM is totally against abortion. In a number of places he has said though that it is right in certain circumstances, so although the points might be valid they aren't for him now.

Also another thing that I've noticed is some people say that it's the parents and friends have a big influence and others that it's the media. It's not a one or the other thing, it's a mix of both. Probably friends and family is a bit more important, but both are a large factor.

How would a government define morals if there was no major religion? I know that a lot might be "common sense" but some would be less obvious. As everyone would have different morals then it could be very difficult to state what is right and wrong.


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Republican_Man
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 6:39 pm    

Exalya wrote:
Republican_Man wrote:
Oh, and while we're getting rid of morals, why don't we just do what Planned Parenthood did, and teach a bunch of Girl Scouts how to *beep*...And teach students all about condomns. And promote teenage abortions without parental permission (unless, of course, their is proof that the parent(s) will beat them). And let's just be the ACLU and COMPLETLEY secularize the country and get rid of religion in all forms. Let's go teach out 5 year olds about sex and rape 'em. Let's do it!
There was sarcasm completely there, but that would be a de-moralized society, and those are instances that have happened or would happen, as disgusting as they may be. This isn't just a debate about censoring inapporpriate content--it's about morals.


Go RM. The way sexuality is taught is NOT right. When I was in public school, kids were talking about what sex was at 6 years old--in a SMALL-TOWN school! Talk about crazy. And might I tell you, it wasn't innocent. Ever seen a curious six-year-old with the opposite sex, who only knows what he's seen on TV? Heh. I don't recommend it. I've seen situations that were totally OFF, and it WAS because of the stuff they saw on television. Kids with caring parents, who were oblivious to the fact their children were learning too much, and from the wrong sources. And what do you make of first graders telling their classmates that they're gay or *beep*, just because they're close with thier best friend?! Yeah, it DOES happen. And it's backwards. (Seriously. I was accused of it. ACK.) And teaching "safe sex" is total...well, I won't say it, I hate to cuss. Locally, my church is working on a total abstinence program, until kids are old enough (Of course). I'm glad they are. It's a small piece of sanity. This choice is not obvious to those composing textbooks? BAH.


EXACTLY!

Hitchhiker wrote:
Hmm . . . it's interesting how this topic has gone off on a rather . . . heated tangent.

Since we're on the subject of sexual education . . .

. . . we need more of it.

No, we do NOT. We have good enough--just teach about what the process is, and that having sex before you're married is wrong. None of this "condomn" crap, ESPECIALLY when you are forcing a kid to put one on (that DID happen.) And not just that--condomns don't always help, and nor do pills. We should teach abstinence, and that's really it.

I know I'm going to bludgeon myself later, but really. Because you can't get rid of the media--it's everywhere, and censoring won't do a whole lot of good--you need your kids to be well informed. The best way is to teach them while they are young--don't pretend that sex doesn't exist. Incorporate it as a normal bodily function: we teach our kids about drugs in school, should we stop educating them about that?

Drugs is fine to teach, but do NOT teach young kids about sex! It's not right! They should wait until they are in 5th grade to get the BASICS (like my Elementary School did) and then in 7th grade teach about EXACTLY how it happens (intercourse) (like at my middle school). Yes, eventually teach them, but if we stop showing all this sexual stuff on the TV and much at the schools, then such stuff will happen less and less.

(That last colon was thrown in just to break up the monotony of those dashes.)

Ignorance is not bliss, although I like to think so. It's all about control nowadays, and if you leave it up to the media to teach your children about sexuality, then they will get the wrong message, and that's a dangerous thing.

That's why such things must be STOPPED, one step at a time.

I believe in abstinence and celibacy until marriage, seriously. But I also believe that children should know about it in order to prevent them being taught it the wrong way.

Teach the basics (well, maybe a bit more) and abstinence. That's it.

We might as well not allow Star Trek on TV, as the prostethics might frighten children if they are channel flipping alone at home

Do NOT compare sex stuff to ST. Showing sex or giving sexual signals is MUCH MUCH worse than showing ST!

When censoring you shouldn't get extremist because then you run into two problems. 1) The general public doesn't like it. 2) The media doesn't like it. Now since the public and the media hold a lot of market power, this can create difficulties.

I don't mean censor EVERYTHING, etc, but WATCH OUT FOR THE KIDS. Block out the sex on TV and nudity on TV. Block out the bad words on TV and Radio. And channels like BET should watch what they put on.

Oh . . . and we can't show any more footage from Iraq . . . kids watching the evening news might be terrified of all that blood and gore; cigarette pictures are definitely out since we don't want our kids smoking.


I'm talking that this is different (I don't believe I disagree with the smoking thing) than the Iraq situation. I'm saying censor content that would REALLY affect the child in such a delicate situation--I've heard of WAY too many instances of 12 year olds to 17 year olds having sex--and not just that, but having BABIES. THAT's what I'm talking about stopping.

Five - seveN wrote:
ARGH! Cut it, RM! Just don't air the damn what-you-call-immoral movies before 9, 10 pm or so! And who says we don't want any morals? If a kid sees a naked man, do you think the kid will become a terrorist? Jus like Hitchhiker said, no. It's more likely the kid will become a terrorist if it never sees anything horrible or sexual. Just because it doesn't know how to handle certain things.

Ever heard of time zones? 10:00 on the East Coast is 8:00 here in Colorado, and 7:00 in California. And I NEVER said that they would become terrorists--I do NOT believe that! You just MUST protect the kids! Do you not see that?

[edit]

Republican_Man wrote:
And teach students all about condomns.

I (seriously) think you should do that, yes. If everybody used condoms, what do we need abortion for? Think about it, man. Open your front door.


We want to stop our teens from having sex before marriage, not forcing them to use condoms. Plus, they don't help all the time. They truly don't. Oh, and I just thought about teaching them about STDs, when they're old enough (7th grade, I would say). And however, teaching kids around those ages about sex, okay, but SHOWING IT ON TV or INDIRECTLY DISCUSSING IT, OR DIRECTLY FOR THAT MATTER! NO! That's WRONG!

Jeremy wrote:
Hey, can you please calm down! I know that the issues of what is and isn't morals works us up a lot, but try and think before your posts. Thanks

I don't think RM was saying that kids would turn into terrorists if they saw someone naked, rather that it is wrong. And neither will someone become a terrorist because they don't see something.

Exactly!

What is a better way of stopping abortions and STDs? Not having sex or condoms? Sure, I know that some people will have sex anyway if there is no condoms and that they are at a big risk, but from my experience in school (at the moment) there is nothing about not having sex. It's all about take the pill, condoms etc but not actually the best way is not to have sex. It hasn't been mentioned once in all my school years and I'm in my last year before I have to leave, so you can't say it will come later.


Promote abstinence.
Link, the Hero of Time wrote:
Republican_Man wrote:


Oh my gosh! There's just know way to reason with you people...Why don't we just forget morals? Who gives a damn! Allow gays to have sex in parks! Allow kids to be exposed to the F-word all day! Allow kids to see sex and a naked woman and a naked man! Allow kids to watch music videos and listen to music that promotes the beating of women, using drugs, and promotes violence! Just allow it! Do NOT bleep out any words. Forget about the kids. Let the 4 year olds discover sex. Let's just allow Playboy on regular cable.
And somewhat off the subject of censorship but still on morals, allow abortions--including partial-birth abortions. Allow gay marriage. Allow full stem-cell research. Let the death penalty run rampent. Allow prostitution. Legalize marijuana. Have kids put on condomns in health class and be sexually abused word-wised by a teacher that says, "Come on sweety." (Yes, it's happened.)
Let's just expose kids to what they shouldn't be exposed to! Let's become immoral or ammoral! Yes, lets! Forget about morals. Who needs them? Forget about protecting the kids. It's not necessary!



Now lets see... where should I start to tear your argument apart....

Ah lets start with just the basics: CALM DOWN!!!

A child will learn more from his parents, teachers and friends then he will ever learn from watching a T.V, But a child will walk away taking information from all sources and create what he thinks he was being taught.

I agree to some degree. Yes, parents do--and should--have a great influence on their children, but it's sad to say that many do NOT GIVE A DAMN, especially in a situation like the inner-city. Yes, they should ALL dispromote sex, but the media and educational systems have an obligation not to go too far.

Do you know RM, that children learn to swear, not from Television as most right winged moralist would want to believe, but from their family members and their friends? Parents want to blame things on the TV just so they have a reason NOT to put the blame on the real problem, THEMSELVES.

I disagree. Parents, YES, mut be held accountable, for the most part, that's the crux of them allowing such things. However, there are TOO many situations where the kid may find something on the TV or Internet that's innapropriate. And yes, they hear things at school, but where does that often come from? TV. I'd say TV and friends have the greatest impact added up. Ever heard of peer pressure? Many friends might pressure them into doing something, like sex.

Next, nudity is a quinticential part of life. We are born naked, we spend the majority of our baby life naked. Get over it. A parent is supposed to have "The Talk" with their kids when they see that they are becoming aware of themselves. Unfortunetly, most dont and kids have to learn it the hard way. Which by the way is NOT through TV as you would like to believe.

Yes, we are born naked. But do we have any real recollection of it? No. And are we seeing anybody else naked until marriage? No. (Or at least you shouldn't) Yes, parents MUST talk to their kids when they feel it necessary, but often they find out about things through other places. It's NOT right for a child--or anyone under 18--to see a person naked through TV, etc. It's NOT right for *beep* to be seen. But then again, what's wrong with a 6 year old seeing *beep*? *Sarcasm*

Censorship.... There's a topic I hate to touch, but if I must then I must. Already in the US we have a strangle hold on everything. Censorship is at an all time high and people hate it. When they show good movie on TV it still makes me cringe to here the actor's voice dubbed over by some other person changing what he was supposed to say. It makes me sick. I for one am glad that they shouwed "Saving Private Ryan" unedited and uncut. Did you know that when WWII vets saw that movie they said it was almost like being back on the front lines? or that it was the most realistic War movie made? They showed it unedited and uncut to HONOR those vets. Then everyone gets up in arms about it cause they dont understand. While yes I do believe some things should be censored, We are the most uptight country on this Earth and it makes me sick.

By censoring I'm talking about the bad language, the nudity, and the sex, and that the media should LOOK OUT for kids more. I'm not saying block EVERYTHING OUT. No way!

And back to the subject of Rap.... If you dont listen to it, dont talk because you seem to have no idea what you're talking about except what others tell you. Rap is street poetry, that is its roots. There is some rap that is very good, some even you would like.
Example: http://www.gospelflava.com/articles/editorial-jesuswalks.html
There is a rap song out there done by Kanye West, it's called "Jesus Walks" it's a rap song and has minor swearing in it but he openly admits his need for jesus in his life.

Okay, you've got some decent rap songs. But guess what? I HAVE HEARD RAP MUSIC! At school dances, that's all I've heard. I've heard it at a friends house before (ie Eminem). For debate matters, I've watch a little of BET and MTV. I do NOT like what I see. I'm really talking about gangsta rap--the bad stuff. The Snoop Dogg and Ludicrous and Eminem stuff.
And it seems we're back to the subject of Morals... great.

Alright. Abortions first. So the vitims of Rape or of incestual relations should not be allowed to have and abortion? Even though the rape baby will most likely be abandoned, or loveless or even beaten regularly for just existing. I should know, I know a person who was that baby, He now resides in a mental institution. Also, an incestual baby will have the worst genes in it brought out, enter mental retardation, missing or underdeveoped body parts or organs, or even death at a young age due to an underdeveloped immune system.

Yes, I know. And I got into a debate earlier with a few others (on both sides). I've decided that there is a difference between adults and kids--Adults should only be able to have an abortion if there is incest, or if there is rape AND the possibility of death. With the kids (11-17, I'm talking) they're parents MUST be notified before an abortion, first of all, unless there's proof of the likely possibility of a beating. Also, if the kid is in danger of death, then okay. If the kid has been raped or incestualized, okay. I see a difference between kids and adults, but if a kid or adult DOES take the chance and have consentual sex, NO WAY.

Gay Marriage. You already know my stance on that. You're discrimintating against gay people. And since homosexual tendencies have been around for Millenia, yes it has been around that long Look at the Spartans, they encouraged it, you cannot say it's something new.

I won't even debate this.

Stem cell research. It should be allowed. It could save the lives of millions. "The needs of ther many outweigh the needs of the few or the one." And who knows, with it we may find they way to kill of cancerous cells once and for all.

I have little faith in Stem Cell Research, but as I've said before, I think that those eggs that you will throw away, use them for research, as well as frozen fetuses. But do NOT abort for them.

Death Penalty. it should be allowed for the major sickos. And since the country is already in a massive debt, it would be easier. Instead of them leeching off of taxpayer's money for the rest of their lives. once shot, done.

I don't know. This is where I'm more liberal. Mass murderers and terrorists should get the death penalty. However, the others should have to go to a prison with FEW luxuries and have to do work--not brutal or brutally, but work. At least those convicted of high crimes, like 1st Degree murder.

Prostitution is already legalized in Vegas. Yes, it is. The place even has a website. Though I think it's wrong and downright dirty. Other believe it's something good.

What! Prostitution somewhat good, and LEGAL! I've heard about the attempt to legalize it there, and I hadn't heard a response...but there is NOTHING good to it! Ugh!

marijuana. Never touched it, never will. Though I do believe it has Medicinal values and should only be used for that purpose.

Maybe, I don't know.

Has anyone else noticed that when people see something wrong the first thing said is "Oh my god, think of the children." That's just a way to rationalize their own insecurities. I know since I do not have children of my own, I'm only 20 and I hope that day isn't for at least another 10 years because I'd like to be out of college and grad school, I only know what I have seen hundreds of times and what has been expalined to me by people who have children, that I should not talk, but until peole finally realize their own insecurities about things, "Think of the children" will be something that is used for a long time, But Passing the Buck only goes so far.


I see, and in many cases that's true, but I am REALLY looking out for the children here. SOMEBODY has too, and it seems that only Bill O'Reilly and myself are. (Although others are, but I'm just saying).

Exalya wrote:
One wonders what happened to the concept of parents teaching their kids about sex, eh? What an idea. The parental part of the equation too many times comes in late. By the time kids are in middle school they already know far more than most parents would probably like to think. (Or, at least, my parents) --edit-- And oddly, in some ways, I agree with what Link said above. Usually, more than the media, it is the parents' fault for letting their kids see it, or for not telling them what they need to know.

I agree that it does have to be taught in schools (I think...I'm not sure I like it, but hey, I don't like the school system to begin with...) but I disagree with how it is taught. And then you get into the lovely conundrum of what to teach kids about same sex...well, sex. Which they're starting to do in California (Don't know about the rest of the U.S., so I won't speak for it). And THAT is certainly not the most calm section of the moral argument...


Some of it DOES have to be taught in school--by only the basics, intercourse, abstinence, and STDs.

Five - seveN wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Hey, can you please calm down! I know that the issues of what is and isn't morals works us up a lot, but try and think before your posts. Thanks

I don't think RM was saying that kids would turn into terrorists if they saw someone naked, rather that it is wrong. And neither will someone become a terrorist because they don't see something.

What is a better way of stopping abortions and STDs? Not having sex or condoms? Sure, I know that some people will have sex anyway if there is no condoms and that they are at a big risk, but from my experience in school (at the moment) there is nothing about not having sex. It's all about take the pill, condoms etc but not actually the best way is not to have sex. It hasn't been mentioned once in all my school years and I'm in my last year before I have to leave, so you can't say it will come later.

Okay, you're right, I'm too lightly flammable... I know, I know...
But man, we get sexual education (and believe me, that's more than "use a condom, take the pill, okay let's move on to our next subject: the bloodstream'' or sumtin) here in 2nd grade, when we're 13 or 14 years old! I can't imagine how stupid those people [edit: that's not aimed at RM, but at the governments who think of those laws] are thinking it'll all be right wothout sexual education, or, even worse, thinking that sexual education is waaaay to explicit for 13 year-olds... =S


2nd grade is WAAAAAAAY too young! Yes, sexual education MUST be taught to an extent, but not much of the extensive stuff. Don't teach kids to put on condoms, for instance, and don't put on horrible sexual stuff, and do SOMETHING about Kids and the Internet.

Exalya wrote:
Valathous wrote:
I never said you can't have freedom of religion. Go ahead, practice your religion. My argument was take religion out instead of forcing it in, if you want better morals and such for less terrorists. But by all means, practice any religion!


...if you want better morals, get religion out of the government. Mm-hm. Yeah. *LAUGHS* ... *coughs* Sorry. This intriguing little thing about practicing religion, but not doing anything about it in how you believe the government should conduct itself is rather amusing. Really. Why would I want to live in a society that eliminates standards that I believe in having? ...I'll give you a hint. The answer is not one that secularists like. I wouldn't want religion imposed on people, either. I wouldn't want it to be mandatory you believe or act some way...but when it comes to certain fundamental aspects, I can't condone things that I find wrong, if they affect more than just the individual themselves.


Agreed on all fronts, but if Jeff is where he is, then he REALLY DOES need religion.

Valathous wrote:
RM, Jeff doesn't need religion in his life..... People need religion taken out of their lives to get rid of terrorism! Maybe then everyone in the middle east will stop declaring Holy Wars (Jihads) against North America.
I stand by it, religion is the source of much evil and war, covered up by it's blanket of over protective "morals" which are too restricting.


Those are RADICAL TERRORISTS THAT HAVE HIJACKED A RELGION! DO YOU NOT SEE THAT? The absense of religion in public life is BAD, it gets rid of morals. Morals are NOT too restricting, and it's people who TAKE A RELIGION OUT OF CONTEXT THAT ARE BAD. Christianity isn't bad because of the HORRIBLE acts of the Inquisition. No. And it's changed over time.

Jeremy wrote:
I see that a number of the "liberal" users (don't know what else to say) are assuming that RM is totally against abortion. In a number of places he has said though that it is right in certain circumstances, so although the points might be valid they aren't for him now.

Exactly!

Also another thing that I've noticed is some people say that it's the parents and friends have a big influence and others that it's the media. It's not a one or the other thing, it's a mix of both. Probably friends and family is a bit more important, but both are a large factor.

Yeah, all are.

How would a government define morals if there was no major religion? I know that a lot might be "common sense" but some would be less obvious. As everyone would have different morals then it could be very difficult to state what is right and wrong.


There is a fine line where EVERYONE should agree that morals should apply. Yes, different people may disagree, but there is a fine line where morals must apply. Regardless.



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Hitchhiker
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 7:00 pm    

Republican_Man wrote:
No, we do NOT. We have good enough--just teach about what the process is, and that having sex before you're married is wrong.

Sounds more like indoctrination than education. I'd rather empower children to become free-thinking and to make that choice for themselves rather than for it to be taught and indoctrinated into their ethical being. Things that you discover for yourself are always more powerful than things you are forced to learn.

As for needing a more central religion . . . not really, because if you think about it, most of the major religions agree on the major points of morality, because we've finally progressed to a point where religions just ignore each other instead of launching holy wars.


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Valathous
The Canadian, eh


Joined: 31 Aug 2002
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 7:02 pm    

lol. No sex or nudity before marriage? That's a little stupid, and restricting. You do know that a few hundred years ago, even up to maybe 150 years ago, people would get married and reproduce at the age of
12-14.... Religious people too. That's quite a ways away from 18.... Though they were normally married. But bah, you dont need to be married to have sex.

Religion is not the bringer of morals into the world, Im sorry, but it's not. I am not religious, I am like the complete absense of religion. I know about it, I probably know more about it that quite a few people, as at one point I had a christian friend try to turn me religious. I almost did, I was like 13 years old. Im 17 now, and am glad I never did, as I don't like it. When I was young I had all the peer pressure of "You'll go to hell! Come see the light!" but now I can see that science is the way to go.

Morals are brought by the publics "public morality." What people know is right and wrong through common sense and desire for safety, well-being and happiness.

Grades 5, 7, 8 and 9 are when they are taught in Canada. (sometimes grade 4 instead of 5, but usually grade 5). They focus on safe sex, how it works and how to avoid sicknesses. Abstinence is one of the things they teach as the safest way not to contract something, but they dont teach it as "follow abstinence until marriage!". Because that is just stupid in many peoples' opinions here in Canada.

Words dont need to be censored from the radio all the time. They are for the most part up until 9:30-10pm.... a few songs they let slip at about 7:30pm onwards but dont normally turn them off until 9:30-10pm. Movies or whatever, shouldn't be changed.... I like how they just give a warning before the show starts! (after 7:30pm give or take, before then it's censored unless it's a movie channel or pay-per-view)

Why should "gangsta" rap be taken off the air-waves because a few people don't like it? Many people DO like it.

I'll give you prostitution though. That's just gross. Walking biohazardous whores... (it rhymes )

And I do find a lot of things in religion waaaaaay to constraining. Obviously you don't because you were brought up to believe in them.


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Defiant
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Joined: 04 Jul 2001
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 7:21 pm    

Exalya wrote:
Funny, Dan...you like all freedoms, except the religious ones? Well, that's nice...

sarcasm


Seriously, freedom of religion is good. AS LONG AS YOU DONT TRY TO FORCE YOUR RELIGION ON OTHERS. Major pet peeve of mine. Dont force your religion or religious ideals on others. That is the worst thing you can do, try to force others to think the way you do.


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Arellia
The Quiet One


Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 7:56 pm    

Defiant wrote:
Exalya wrote:
Funny, Dan...you like all freedoms, except the religious ones? Well, that's nice...

sarcasm


Seriously, freedom of religion is good. AS LONG AS YOU DONT TRY TO FORCE YOUR RELIGION ON OTHERS. Major pet peeve of mine. Dont force your religion or religious ideals on others. That is the worst thing you can do, try to force others to think the way you do.


Um...ever read my second response?

Quote:
I wouldn't want religion imposed on people, either. I wouldn't want it to be mandatory you believe or act some way


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Defiant
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 7:57 pm    

Nope, didnt bother to read it.

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IntrepidIsMe
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 8:16 pm    

Just to let people know, it's been proven that kids are less likely to have unsafe sex earlier, if taught about it in school, and how to use a condom, etc. People are advancing, what a waste to bother being so secretive about a natural process.


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Republican_Man
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 8:22 pm    

Hitchhiker wrote:
Republican_Man wrote:
No, we do NOT. We have good enough--just teach about what the process is, and that having sex before you're married is wrong.

Sounds more like indoctrination than education. I'd rather empower children to become free-thinking and to make that choice for themselves rather than for it to be taught and indoctrinated into their ethical being. Things that you discover for yourself are always more powerful than things you are forced to learn.

As for needing a more central religion . . . not really, because if you think about it, most of the major religions agree on the major points of morality, because we've finally progressed to a point where religions just ignore each other instead of launching holy wars.


Sorry, let me reword that. I should have said promote absitence.

IntrepidIsMe wrote:
Just to let people know, it's been proven that kids are less likely to have unsafe sex earlier, if taught about it in school, and how to use a condom, etc. People are advancing, what a waste to bother being so secretive about a natural process.


No, it has NOT been proven.
I'm not even going to respond to Val's ughish comment because there's no reason to. He just doesn't seem to understand it, and me.



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Puck
The Texan


Joined: 05 Jan 2004
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 8:46 pm    

Maybe people need to realize that when religious people try to take a stand for their own opinions that that is not "forcing our religious veiws" onto anyone. Why don't athiests stop trying force their ideas that sex and gay marriage are ok onto me? It just doesn't work that way, and people need to stop complaining when religious people try to make their voice heard that a "religious preference is being forced". That is BS and it pisses me off.

As for sex. Teach abstinance. Kids shouldn't have sex. Sex is for married people and that is that. It is more than just a "natural process". That is like comparing sex to eating, drinking, or breathing, or heart function, or having to go to the bathroom, or getting old, or getting taller...the list could go on.


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Hitchhiker
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 9:33 pm    

JanewayIsHott wrote:
That is like comparing sex to eating, drinking, or breathing, or heart function, or having to go to the bathroom, or getting old, or getting taller...the list could go on.

That is exactly what we're doing . . . intercourse is just a bodily function after all. One of the requirements of being scientifically alive is "the ability to reproduce". So unless you want us to start asexually reproducing . . .

As for sex for enjoyment; I enjoy eating. We get taught about which foods are good for us so we don't get obese and unhealthy, I think we should also learn about the dangers of having sex.

The world is a scary, dangerous, cynical place . . .


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