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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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 Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:08 pm California Legislature Approves Gay Marriage |
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| Quote: |
California Legislature Approves Gay Marriage
Wednesday, September 07, 2005
SACRAMENTO, Calif � Gay rights supporters cheered loudly from the gallery as California lawmakers became the first in the country to approve a bill allowing same-sex marriages (search). But their celebration may be short-lived.
The legislation could be vetoed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (search), who has expressed an acceptance of gay marriages but said it's an issue that should be decided by voters or the courts.
"He will uphold whatever the court decides," spokeswoman Margita Thompson said Tuesday after the state Assembly approved the same-sex marriage measure, 41-35. The Senate had approved it last week.
A state appellate court is considering appeals of a lower court ruling that overturned California laws banning recognition of gay marriages. And opponents of same-sex marriage are trying to qualify initiatives for the 2006 ballot that would amend the state Constitution to ban gay marriages.
The bill's supporters compared the legislation to earlier civil rights campaigns, including efforts to eradicate slavery and give women the right to vote.
"Do what we know is in our hearts," said the bill's sponsor, San Francisco Democrat Mark Leno. "Make sure all California families will have the same protection under the law."
But opponents repeatedly cited the public's vote five years ago to approve Proposition 22 (search), which prohibits California from recognizing same-sex marriages performed in other states or countries.
"History will record that you betrayed your constituents and their moral and ethical values," Republican Assemblyman Jay La Suer said.
Leno had sponsored an earlier bill that fell four votes short of passing the Assembly in June. He kept the issue alive by adding the language of the defeated measure to another bill that had already passed the Assembly and was awaiting action in the Senate.
The Senate approved that bill and sent it back to the Assembly for another vote. Four Democrats who didn't vote the last time tipped the scales.
One of them, Assemblyman Tom Umberg, said Tuesday he was concerned about what his three children would think of him if he didn't join those "who sought to take a leadership role in terms of tolerance, equality and fairness."
California already gives same-sex couples many of the rights and duties of marriage if they register with the state as domestic partners.
Massachusetts' highest court ruled in November 2003 that the state constitution guarantees same-sex couples the right to marry. The nation's first state-sanctioned, same-sex weddings began taking place in May 2004.
Vermont began offering civil unions in 2000, after a ruling by the state's Supreme Court. Earlier this year, Connecticut became the first state to approve civil unions without being forced by the courts.
Tuesday's vote showed that gay rights advocates have "turned the corner on the issue of marriage equality for lesbian and gay couples," said Geoff Kors, executive director of Equality California, a backer of the bill.
"As the debate today shows, love conquers fear, principle conquers politics and equality conquers injustice, and the governor can now secure his legacy as a true leader by signing this bill," he said.
But Randy Thomasson, president of the Campaign for Children and Families, a conservative group opposed to the bill, said Schwarzenegger should veto it.
"Schwarzenegger can't afford to sign the gay marriage license bill," he said. "He'll actually become a hero to the majority of Californians when he vetoes it."
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:54 pm |
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I find that very good news! 
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Nosce te ipsum
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:38 pm |
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Don't get too excited. It's very doubtful that Arnold will sign it.
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Resume your disorder.
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:26 pm |
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hoping he will.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:03 pm |
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Bad news. Very bad news, leading to an even darker, more secular America. That's my 2 cents, and I won't say any more, as this issue has been debated so many times here.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:23 pm |
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I feel sorry for Ahhhhnold. If he signs it, the Conservatives and the Religious Rights will blame him, and if he doesn't, the Liberals and Lefts will blame him.
We can only hope that he keeps his promise to represent the the will of the people, not the fanantic fringe.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:30 pm |
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Uh, fanatic fringe? Those opposed to gay marriage aren't "on the fanatic fringe." Most Americans overall don't support it. And the vote didn't go to the people directly, like it should have. It went to the State Senate. It should be a state-wide referendum.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:37 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | And the vote didn't go to the people directly, like it should have. It went to the State Senate. It should be a state-wide referendum. |
In order to steer the topic away from the inevitable debate we've all experienced enough times, I shall pose the question: what qualifies to be a referendum? Why refer some items to referenda and others to a legislature?
I'm just posing the questions to see people's responses--personally I favour direct democracy but know that it wouldn't work (even though representative democracy doesn't work anyway). Also, I'm just slightly unclear on that process in the U.S. Who decides such matters? The Governor? The Constitution? Why are some matters considered "important" enough to be sent directly to the people rather than be considered by their duly elected representatives?
Just wanted to know. . . .
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:45 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Uh, fanatic fringe? Those opposed to gay marriage aren't "on the fanatic fringe." Most Americans overall don't support it. |
And do you have every single American's position on the issue? Statistics can be manipulated. Raw numbers can't be.[/b]
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:50 pm |
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| Quote: | | SACRAMENTO, Calif � Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (search) announced Wednesday he will veto a bill that would have made California the first state to legalize same-sex marriage (search) through its elected lawmakers. |
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168744,00.html
Tsk. Oh well, is still progress.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:51 pm |
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This the part where we all act surprised?
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:49 pm |
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| Puck wrote: | | Quote: | | SACRAMENTO, Calif � Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (search) announced Wednesday he will veto a bill that would have made California the first state to legalize same-sex marriage (search) through its elected lawmakers. |
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168744,00.html
Tsk. Oh well, is still progress. |
Progress? I think this is good news.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:06 pm |
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Yes, progress. Not everyone thinks that just because love is shared between two people of the same sex, that that makes it dark and secular  .
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:14 pm |
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| Puck wrote: | | Yes, progress. Not everyone thinks that just because love is shared between two people of the same sex, that that makes it dark and secular . |
Now you are misrepresenting my statements What I believe is that gay marriage brings us down another path to a secular society almost void of religion, which is a dark place.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:42 pm |
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Uhh... That's the same thing just worded differently.
Pardon me if I dont believe that the words of a book translated incorrectly, outdated and written mostly by men who didn't know the religions founder is law.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:57 pm |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | Uhh... That's the same thing just worded differently.
Pardon me if I dont believe that the words of a book translated incorrectly, outdated and written mostly by men who didn't know the religions founder is law. |
First, it's not the same thing; there's a difference.
Second, I never said anything about that. I just believe that a secular nation void of religion makes for no moral values beyond that killing is wrong. That's it, and that's a scary society, a dark society. In all honesty, I trully am NOT, contrary to common belief, a religious person. I am much more traditional and anti-secular and moralistic than that. There is much of the Bible that I don't believe, including the tales in Genesis (I believe more in intelligent design, although I do think that it's likely that the story of creation was a metaphor more than actuality, and I think I believe in biological evolution, not Adam and Eve (that tale just doesn't make sense with all the science that's been displayed)) and some of the other things in the Old Testament. No where in this debate (about the California gay marriage thing) have I said that we have to follow the Bible, just that gay marriage leads us even closer to a secular nation void of morals beyond killing is wrong, which is a dark place. You are completely misrepresenting my statements here.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:18 am |
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Marriage is an institution of the people, just like government.
The people get to define their own institutions, it should be a refurendum.
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:48 am |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | Marriage is an institution of the people, just like government.
The people get to define their own institutions, it should be a refurendum. |
Exactly. This issue should be put to a popular vote.
I know lots of people who say they "support gay marriage", just so they won't be labled as bigots, homophobes or (say it quietly - CONSERVATIVES). But in a vote I am positive they will oppose it.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:29 pm |
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Personally I think this is wonderful news. I think there shouldn't be anything in the way of two people who are honestly in love.
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:38 am |
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The bill has already been vetoed by the idiot governor
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:24 pm |
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| CJ Cregg wrote: | | The bill has already been vetoed by the idiot governor |
IDIOT governor? Finally, he's actually doing something good.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:02 pm |
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Yes thats right IDIOT Governor!
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:54 pm |
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| CJ Cregg wrote: | | Yes thats right IDIOT Governor! |
When are you going to make a thought provoking post? All you say is "idiot!" or "shut your mouth!"
I notice you're not saying much on how the Dem. totally screwed my home over in the Katrina topic. Interesting...
As for this topic? I don't care either way. If they let them marry? Fine. Maybe they'll finally shut up. If they don't? Doesn't bother me.
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:00 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | killing is wrong. |
There are many many many places in the bible that say killing is okay. Shall I quote them for you?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:01 pm |
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| Starbuck wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | killing is wrong. |
There are many many many places in the bible that say killing is okay. Shall I quote them for you? |
I meant murder.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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