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magenta
Commander
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 404
Location: AUSTRALIA
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 Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:39 pm |
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   I am going to continue to write in a block because it really annoys people!  Surely the guy has been watching the news and knew police were looking for suspicious looking people.Dressing just the way he was and using the trains for transport!  Who is to say that they would of shot him if he had stopped.I think he would have been searched and taken to the p.station for questioning.No one would have been hurt!He was shot like that because he ran.And it makes no difference how many bullets were fired,even one would have killed him.The policeman was acting on his orders and was probly very frightened that the guy was going to detonate.The terrorists are Brainwashed to believe that by doing Allards will(blowing themselves and a heap of innocent people/children),they will go to paradise! Maybe you should read up on how the terrorists are using religion to justify their actions.I also know that the muslin faith is one of peace and non-violent,and the majority of people who follow this religion are not into killing innocent people! 
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:14 pm |
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I agree. As I said, police the world over would have responded in the same way. If we take their word for everything, they did nothing wrong.
Nobody said they'd have shot him if he stopped, as far as I can see. If they would have... then London's police force is pretty scary, and I'm sure it isn't.
And I do know how terrorists are slandering their own religion to justify what they're doing. I apparently know more than you, actually, considering I know that they call their God "Allah" and not "Allard" and that they're "Muslim" and not "Muslin."
Then again, I'm assuming this is all directed at me. As of yet, I'm unsure.
And Jeremy: you only 4 limbs.... how could they take off "maybe more"?...
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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lex
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 226
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:19 pm |
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Maybe the poster meant that they WEAR muslin.
LOL.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:24 pm |
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It isn't outside the realm of possibilities.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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lex
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 226
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:26 pm |
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Only Allard knows for sure.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:27 pm |
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I'll bet.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:57 am |
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| Jeremy wrote: |
To do that you'd have to take out all 4 limbs and maybe more so they couldn't set off a bomb if they were a suicide bomber. |
A taser would do it perfectly fine.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:29 am |
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Unlike with the other terrorist suspect who they caught they weren't "prepared" as such. They were on the lookout for terrorists, and so they wouldn't have had loads of equipment with them, or it would have looked a bit obvious. I'm guessing the choice was between a gun and taser, and since tasers have a limited range then they would opt for the gun.
| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | And Jeremy: you only 4 limbs.... how could they take off "maybe more"?... |
I meant other body parts, rather than limbs. I'm sure it's possible to set off a bomb using your head or something, depending on the detanator.
| magenta wrote: | | I am going to continue to write in a block because it really annoys people! |
Well, that kind of attitude will get you a warning and maybe ban from WN,
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magenta
Commander
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 404
Location: AUSTRALIA
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| Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:15 am |
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Oh no I might get banned from here just for writing without gaps ??I really love all the debate this has caused.Allah[Allards?]would be thundering in where ever he is hanging out?Their muslin wraps will be slipping from all the talk about their MUSLIM religion.Also again,being the intelligent person that I am.Im assuming this is all directed at me,as of yet Im quite sure!?!? 
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:14 am |
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| magenta wrote: | | Oh no I might get banned from here just for writing without gaps ??I really love all the debate this has caused.Allah[Allards?]would be thundering in where ever he is hanging out?Their muslin wraps will be slipping from all the talk about their MUSLIM religion.Also again,being the intelligent person that I am.Im assuming this is all directed at me,as of yet Im quite sure!?!? |
It's not the gaps that is the problem, it's the fact you mention you were doing it to annoy people.
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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| Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:09 am |
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The police said that a taser could detonate a bomb in a seperate news report (found this by accident, but I think it's relevant):
| Quote: | | Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said officers using a Taser on a suspected suicide bomber ran an "incredible risk" of detonating a bomb. |
Source
It is upsetting that an innocent person was killed, and hopefully we can learn from it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:22 am |
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| Seven of Nine wrote: | The police said that a taser could detonate a bomb in a seperate news report (found this by accident, but I think it's relevant):
| Quote: | | Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said officers using a Taser on a suspected suicide bomber ran an "incredible risk" of detonating a bomb. |
Source
It is upsetting that an innocent person was killed, and hopefully we can learn from it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing |
LOL your not supposed to post something like that now it makes me look like a complete goof
Really though, surely there is another way than killing a potential suspect.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:39 pm |
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Couldn't tranq him? BTW, I'm sorry he was killed like that, but I do think the police did the best they could under the circumstances.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:04 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Couldn't tranq him? BTW, I'm sorry he was killed like that, but I do think the police did the best they could under the circumstances. |
That's right. You know, this topic has been going for a couple of weeks. We've all had TIME to pontificate on the matter. The bureacrats and the politicians have all the TIME in the world to sit there, at their nice, safe desks, and talk about this and that.
It was the police marksman and the commanding officers who had to make the decision - THERE AND THEN. We're talking a nanosecond to make a decision.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:54 am |
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And also if you tranq'd him then it doesn't have an immediate effect, so if he was guilty then he'd have had time to set the bomb off. Not to mention how many police do you know that would be carrying tranqualiser guns normally?
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:16 am |
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/\ armed police also have tranqs
| Quote: | | The police said that a taser could detonate a bomb in a seperate news report |
I suppose that depends on what kind of bomb it was, but yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense.
The other day, when they were doing raids, they made this guy come out of his house in his underwear so that they could see he didn't have any bombs strapped to him.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:46 am |
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There are different levels of tranqs. I watch A&E quite a bit, and they show this kind of stuff. One guy volunteers to be hit, he dropped like a rock. Immediately.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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jonathan95
Delta Prime
Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1544
Location: UK Newcastle
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| Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:18 am |
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I dont think the armed police carry tranks since they need a special gun most guns they use arnt really able to fire tranks and I also dont think they use them in case people are ilurgic to them,
I can just see the news now, Man shot with tranqs died topday as he was ilurgic to them.
hudge inquirey etc.
I think the police at the monment they did it had no other option the man obviously wasnt doing what they sad. and now if I had a few men standing shouting at me to stop and get down on the floor or what ever pointing guns, I wouldnt run I d do what they said out of fear rather than run.
I think the police did there very best to contain it, and acted in the best way, its not a mattyer if he was inocent or anything its more of a matter of what if he did have a bomb and he was about to go kill a few hundread people.
If it was me I think I would have pulled the trigger if I'd exorsted all my other options.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:20 am |
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| madlilnerd wrote: | /\ armed police also have tranqs
| Quote: | | The police said that a taser could detonate a bomb in a seperate news report |
I suppose that depends on what kind of bomb it was, but yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense.
The other day, when they were doing raids, they made this guy come out of his house in his underwear so that they could see he didn't have any bombs strapped to him. |
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:55 am |
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But you have a slight problem. For some guys you'd need a large dose to take them down immediatly. Massive guys with large bodymass and so on. But what happens if you come across a woman who is 4ft and petite? To take her down it'd be a far smaller dosage, and so you'd have to swap darts. This would take time, and there would be the oppurtunity for a mistake to be made. If you didn't use enough then it wouldn't take them down, if you used to much it would put to sleep permantantly.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:03 am |
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Wouldn't you rather take a chance of killing someone instead of killing them on purpose? We know 8 bullets generally WILL kill. A tranq MAY kill.
And again, I'm not saying that the police were wrong. They did what they thought best in the circumstance. This discussion is simply to see how something like this can be averted in the future. Anyone, even police, walking around armed and as wired as they are now, is bad.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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The Delta Flyer
Commodore
Joined: 08 Apr 2002
Posts: 2163
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:20 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | Wouldn't you rather take a chance of killing someone instead of killing them on purpose? We know 8 bullets generally WILL kill. A tranq MAY kill.
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I agree with what you're saying but had he been an actual terrorist, the time taken to load a tranq gun with the right dart, etc might have taken too much time. While the policeman was loading his gun, the potential terrorist might have already detonated his explosives...
Whilst shooting a gun means there is a higher chance that someone will die, it might ultimately/potentially mean saving the lives of all those surrounding people simply because it's faster at taking someone down.
On the other hand, it means more incidents like this.
I suppose that somewhere there has to be a balance between risk and necessity...
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:12 pm |
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And again, I agree, Just trying to come up w/ viable alternates.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:03 am |
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They went after and shot him because of the combination of his skin color and the fact he ran. Sad.
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:11 am |
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| Quote: | Calls for London chief to quit
Thursday, August 18, 2005; Posted: 4:52 a.m. EDT (08:52 GMT)
LONDON, England (CNN) -- Pressure was growing on London's police chief to resign as a panel investigating the shooting death of an innocent Brazilian man mistaken for a bombing suspect was meeting with his family's lawyers.
The developments follow a TV news report citing leaked documents and photographs that contradict witness and police statements that the 27-year-old electrician was dressed and behaving suspiciously.
ITV News reported Tuesday that de Menezes was not carrying any bags when he entered the Stockwell Tube station where he was killed and was wearing a denim jacket, rather than a bulky coat as police had previously said.
De Menezes walked at a normal pace, did not vault any barriers and even stopped to pick up a newspaper, ITV reported.
He descended to the train slowly on an escalator, then ran toward the open subway car and took a seat, according to ITV, which based its account on a document outlining what was captured on surveillance footage.
Police later admitted de Menezes had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks and apologized to his family and the Brazilian government.
Supporters of de Menezes' family said Scotland Yard chief Ian Blair must resign if he is found to have deliberately misled them over the killing. |
FULL STORY
This is SO bad. I can't believe they just shot him, basically for no reason. 
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Nosce te ipsum
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