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nadia
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Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 8560
Location: Australia
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 Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:29 am |
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I heard that it wasn't even the police that shot the man!
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:33 am |
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That's very very unlikely. Guns that can bring down someone that quickly are pretty hard to come by in England.
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nadia
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Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 8560
Location: Australia
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| Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:34 am |
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I heard that it was some english secret service thingy
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:41 am |
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You mean the SAS? They deal with terrorists, yes. They're very good, and you have to remember that they have to make split second decisions. The man jumped over the ticket barrier and started running before anyone pulled a gun on him, which is pretty suspicious.
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nadia
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Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 8560
Location: Australia
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| Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:42 am |
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Oh, I didn't know he did that, I have just been hearing little bits and peices
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:17 am |
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Of course, running because you are terrified isn't such an odd thing.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:47 pm |
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| madlilnerd wrote: | | You mean the SAS? They deal with terrorists, yes. They're very good, and you have to remember that they have to make split second decisions. The man jumped over the ticket barrier and started running before anyone pulled a gun on him, which is pretty suspicious. |
If the SAS had done it, the remains would have been unidentifiable. They invented "overkill". (And don't think I'm knocking the SAS; I LIKE overkill!)
Seriously, though. He should have stopped. He gave the police every reason to order him to stop, and having lived there for YEARS, he should known to obey the police.
-------signature-------
"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:54 pm |
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| nadia wrote: | | Oh, I didn't know he did that, I have just been hearing little bits and peices |
I will say that it is important not to believe everything you read. When something like this happens, all sorts of bizarre explanations do the rounds.
I don't have much of an opinion on this. I hate to pontificate on something that is a difficult situation for all. The police do a very tough job and have only a nanosecond or two to make a decision. If this man had been a terrorist and had blown up an innocent person, and the police hadn't stopped him, they would have been damned. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
It is easy for the tabloid media, the politicians and the bureaucrats of this world to comment. After all, they can sit in their air-conditioned offices and pontificate on the matter for weeks on end. We all can. It's the officers on the street who have to make the decision. There will be a full enquiry and no stone will be left unturned by the Metropolitan Police. I feel for the person who was killed and it was a very tragic set of circumstances. There are no easy answers when you're fighting terrorism.
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:06 am |
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| Quote: | Straw 'very sorry' over shooting
Tuesday, July 26, 2005; Posted: 3:28 a.m. EDT (07:28 GMT)
LONDON, England (CNN) -- Saying he is "very, very sorry" over last week's mistaken shooting of an unarmed Brazilian, British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw on Monday said a compensation claim for the slain man's family would be "handled sympathetically and quickly."
Straw also said the British government is working to expedite the release of the body of 27-year-old Jean Charles de Menezes, who was shot eight times by plainclothes police who chased him into a London Underground station Friday, the day after four attempted bombings on the city's transit system.
Straw met Monday with his Brazilian counterpart, Celso Amorim, to offer the government's apology.
"I profoundly regret the circumstances in which we had to hold this meeting," Straw said in a joint news conference with Amorim. "I would personally like take this opportunity to offer my own condolences to Mr. Menezes' family and friends, and condolences to the Brazilian government and people."
Amorim said the Brazilian Embassy had told him Menezes was living legally in England. Straw said: "I don't have any precise information about his immigration status here. My understanding is that he was here lawfully."
De Menezes was shot and killed Friday at the Stockwell Underground train station after police followed him from a house in Stockwell that was under surveillance as part of the investigation into four attempted bombings on the transit system on Thursday.
A police statement said his "clothing and suspicious behavior at the station added to" officers' suspicions, and Police Chief Ian Blair said de Menezes challenged police and refused to obey orders.
The police apologized for the incident, but members of de Menezes' family said an apology was not enough.
Authorities Monday revealed de Menezes was shot eight times, but it was not disclosed what parts of his body were hit by the gunfire.
"We don't start with an assumption that someone's at fault here. We start from the assumption that the family need to know what happened and we're going to do our utmost to give them the answers," Hardwick added. "If there's been wrongdoing, we'll hold people to account. If there's lessons to be learned we'll make sure they're learned."
The chairman said the investigation will look at the "overall context in which (the shooting) took place, the security context and trying to make some judgments about what went wrong."
SOURCE
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Weeeeeird story.
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Nosce te ipsum
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:10 pm |
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| Quote: | | having lived there for YEARS, he should known to obey the police |
*cough splutter laugh* Are you serious? I've lived in England for 15 years... and I still love to graffitti.[/quote]
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:16 am |
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The police have said they would do it again if the same thing happens. I was traveling back home yesterday and there was police walking around with sub-machine guns at the train station. Also when I was in Glasgow central a few days ago (saturday) we have to evacuate the train while some police came running as someone had left a bag in the train. Thankfully it was ok, but you have to be really careful now.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:28 am |
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This is addressed to anyone who thinks it was bad he was shot. What should have been done instead?
The only major fault I see in this is that he was shot so many times. It was overkill.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:36 am |
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I can't answer that until we decide to end the double standard regarding countries.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:42 am |
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Double standards? Hey, eyewitnesses can get it wrong sometimes. So obviously the ones at the roadblock did, but the ones in the more recent one were right.
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:44 am |
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| Jeremy wrote: | This is addressed to anyone who thinks it was bad he was shot. What should have been done instead?
The only major fault I see in this is that he was shot so many times. It was overkill. |
How many shot does it take to be SURE he does not set off an explosive?
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:46 am |
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If you did it in the head, like was done, properly, 1. There was 7 I think in this incident.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:46 am |
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| Jeremy wrote: | Double standards? Hey, eyewitnesses can get it wrong sometimes. So obviously the ones at the roadblock did, but the ones in the more recent one were right.
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Since you totally miss the point, I'll leave you to it.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:47 am |
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I did get what you meant, I was being sarcastic.
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magenta
Commander
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 404
Location: AUSTRALIA
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:53 am |
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:-?The guy spoke english very well according to his family.Why was he wearing a hot jacket on a hot day?Why didnt he stop when the police said to? :-?If someone pulled a gun on me and said stop police,I would stop immediatly.Even if I thought it could be a mugger/rapist,they had a gun!I think in time that they will find out that he was doing something illegal.Maybe not terrorism,but some thing he was scared of being caught for.If they dont well I appologise to his family,but he acted in a suspicious manner.He just picked the wrong time to do that!This will show the terrorists that ZERO tollerance is what they will get if they attempt this madness again and get caught!One of the failed bombers was trying to detonate right next to a lady holding an innocent baby.I hope they get them all one by one and put them in the electric chair where they belong!I wonder if they would still go to their 'allah' that way?   
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:42 am |
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| Jeremy wrote: | | What should have been done instead? |
Incapacitate the suspect.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:57 pm |
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| Jeremy wrote: | Double standards? Hey, eyewitnesses can get it wrong sometimes. So obviously the ones at the roadblock did, but the ones in the more recent one were right.
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Wait a minute. Are you trying to say the incident with the roadblock was still our fault, but when YOU all screw up, it isn't your fault?
| Jeremy wrote: | | If you did it in the head, like was done, properly, 1. There was 7 I think in this incident. |
Thats a little much...
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:57 pm |
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I say that its ok to shoot someone if you have prove they are a terriost. hell better to shoot them before they blow up a subway or crash a plane into a building.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:51 pm |
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| magenta wrote: | :-?The guy spoke english very well according to his family. Why was he wearing a hot jacket on a hot day? Why didnt he stop when the police said to?  If someone pulled a gun on me and said stop police,I would stop immediatly. Even if I thought it could be a mugger/rapist,they had a gun! I think in time that they will find out that he was doing something illegal. Maybe not terrorism,but some thing he was scared of being caught for. If they dont well I appologise to his family,but he acted in a suspicious manner. He just picked the wrong time to do that! This will show the terrorists that ZERO tollerance is what they will get if they attempt this madness again and get caught! One of the failed bombers was trying to detonate right next to a lady holding an innocent baby. I hope they get them all one by one and put them in the electric chair where they belong! I wonder if they would still go to their 'allah' that way? |
First off, I thought I'd make that a little easier on all our eyes...
I don't get it... you're saying he was probably doing something illegal, when the police already said he was innocent. What more do you want?
Theres nothing illegal about wearing a jacket.
Okay, so you'd stand still, and let them shoot you? I mean, the police were in regular, everyday clothes. You may want to get shot, but perhaps he was just afraid some people were ganging up on him.
Wow... "picked the wrong time to do that." I hope that I don't pick the wrong time to wear a jacket, god forbid.
And yes, actually, they would go to their god that way.
But as I said before, the police acted in accordance with what any other law enforcement officer would have done, and they can't be blamed. However, thats saying that all the witnesses lied, etc. Guess we'll never know.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:02 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | Jeremy wrote: | Double standards? Hey, eyewitnesses can get it wrong sometimes. So obviously the ones at the roadblock did, but the ones in the more recent one were right.
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Wait a minute. Are you trying to say the incident with the roadblock was still our fault, but when YOU all screw up, it isn't your fault?
| Jeremy wrote: | | If you did it in the head, like was done, properly, 1. There was 7 I think in this incident. |
Thats a little much... |
In the first point I was making I was being sarcastic. I don't believe there should be double standards, and it annoys me when there is.
| PrankishSmart wrote: | | Jeremy wrote: | | What should have been done instead? |
Incapacitate the suspect. |
To do that you'd have to take out all 4 limbs and maybe more so they couldn't set off a bomb if they were a suicide bomber.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:51 pm |
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| Jeremy wrote: | | In the first point I was making I was being sarcastic. I don't believe there should be double standards, and it annoys me when there is. |
Oh in that case, I apologize.  I thought you meant something else.
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