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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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 Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:14 am Dropping Baseball, Softball an Olympic-Sized Mistake |
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| Quote: | IOC Shows Anti-American Bias With Sport Subtractions
By JIM ARMSTRONG, AOL Exclusive
Chris Park, AP
So once again, the IOC has lived up to its nickname: Idiots On Crack.
How else do you explain softball and baseball being dumped from the 2012 Olympics? Well, other than the obvious reason, that is. The powers that be in the Olympics detest Americans.
Apparently, they're not that keen on studying history, either, since they'd all be speaking German and wearing brown shirts if it weren't for Uncle Sam.
But I digress.
All you really need to know is this: Softball and baseball, two of the fastest-growing sports in the world, are out, and synchronized swimming, water polo and archery, the holy trinity of insomnia cures, are in.
Makes sense if you think about it. Provided you're a self-important Eurocrat with an agenda.
Not that it's any of my business, but did any of the stuffed shirts on the International Olympic Committee take attendance at the 2004 Games in Athens? If so, they would have seen packed or nearly packed houses for baseball and softball. Archery? There weren't enough people watching archery to fill the night shift at Denny's.
Talk about ironic. The same week the IOC announced it was bagging baseball and softball, Major League Baseball announced one of its coolest innovations in years. This week's Home Run Derby in Detroit will be contested among players from eight countries.
Moral to the story: The U.S. is just another face in the crowd these days when it comes to baseball. But if you need more proof, check out the past four Olympics, when Team USA has mustered all of two medals - one gold, one bronze.
The reason, of course, is that we don't send Major Leaguers to the Games. If we did, the U.S. would dominate just as it does in basketball, where our NBA players have proven to be invincible. What's that? Oh, yeah. Never mind.
There's been speculation in the aftermath of last week's announcement that the IOC is troubled by allegations of steroid use among U.S. baseball players.
Yeah, right. As if the Olympics has never had issues with steroids. Ever hear of track and field, wrestling and weight lifting? For that matter, some of those East German women's swimmers used to look like Hulk Hogan in curlers.
No, this all comes down to a simple matter of geography. Fifty seven of the 116 IOC delegates come from Europe, and they don't much care for sports Americans care about. Trouble is, Americans aren't the only ones who care about them.
Take softball, for instance. Twenty years ago, it was a niche sport in the United States. Today, there are 126 national softball teams throughout the world. And you thought golf was the fastest-growing women's sport.
You honestly think there are 126 countries with a passion for archery? Or taekwando? Or badminton? They all made the cut ahead of baseball and softball. So did beach volleyball, the national pastime of Iceland, no doubt.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for badminton. Any sport you can play with a cold beer in one hand and a racquet or ball in the other is OK by me. But why keep it and get rid of two sports whose popularity continues to spread? Sounds like synchronized stupidity to me.
What, like the United States and Latin America have a monopoly on talented ballplayers? Apparently those members of the IOC have never heard of Ichiro Suzuki or Hideki Matsui. I'd give you the entire list of big leaguers from Asia, but there isn't enough room in the tight confines of cyberspace.
The only logical conclusion to all this is that the IOC wants to limit the number of medals the United States wins in future Olympics. Either that or its members have been too busy following their own favorite sports to pay any attention to softball and baseball.
Which brings us to soccer, yet another sport that made the cut at the expense of baseball and softball. While most Americans would rather total their cars or eat liver than watch soccer, it was, is and always will be Europe's favorite sport. It shows on the medals stand, too, where the United States shows up about as often as Jimmy Hoffa.
But when is the last time you heard a U.S. Olympic Committee official say soccer ought to be dropped from the Olympics? That would be never. As in, when is the last time the IOC did something that made any sense?
Mailbag
Questions? Comments? Feel free to e-mail me at [email protected]. A few random excerpts from recent e-mails ...
God bless you! You're a true American hero.
- [email protected]
You must have me confused with Lance Armstrong. I'm not the one with four percent body fat and the rock star girlfriend. I'm the one in the couples league at my local bowling alley.
Hey Jim, I tried to start a fan club for you as you asked me to do. I asked your wife, but she said she'd have to think about it. Have a great day!
- [email protected]
Have a great day? What, are you still caught in the '80s?
You're a droll genius when it comes to writing about sports. I come from Boston, where sports columnists and broadcasters are worshiped and legendary (at least in their own minds). Yet you from Denver are the only one I enjoy reading. Keep it real!
- Greg ''Scoop'' Monahan,
Boston
And here I thought I was just prettier than those geeks in Boston.
Jim, I read your column on Michelle Wie with a mixture of disbelief and bemusement. Just what our society needs; another dime-a-dozen, negative, cynical, curmudgeony sports writer who has likely never truly accomplished anything in his own life.
- Bik2m@aol
If you only knew, bubba. Let's put it this way. Maybe I'll let you swim to Maui and visit me at the condo sometime.
So tell me, what if the roles were reversed and one of the PGA Tour guys played in an LPGA event? I'm assuming you would rip the guy same as this young lady.
- [email protected]
No way. I don't write about weirdos, pal.
Your columns are right on the money. Thanks for cutting out all the B.S. in sports and writing the truth.
- [email protected]
You're welcome. For a minute there, I was worried you thought I was a dime-a-dozen, negative, cynical, curmudgeony sports writer.
Jim, I don't follow golf, but I'd pay a whole lotta bucks to see you go head-to-head with Michelle Wie.
- [email protected]
I probably can't swing that, but I've got some oceanfront property in Wisconsin that I could let you have cheap.
I'm a professor of English in Japan. I don't object to what you're saying - you have that right. I object to the style. It's fashionable at is height and sarcastic at its lowest points. I would recommend you come and take my class when you come to Kyoto. I'd welcome the chance to make you a writer.
- Gordon Ratzlaff,
Professor, Policy Science,
Ritsumeikan University,
Kyoto, Japan
OK, coach Hemingway. Whatever you say.
Jim Armstrong is a sports columnist for The Denver Post.
07-10-05 20:12 EDT
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Last edited by Theresa on Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:47 am |
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They really are American sports than international ones though. It mentions some of the fastest growing sports, but what are the proper figures for the countries, really? And although there may be 126 countries with a team, what are they? I haven't even heard of baseball being playing in any other country apart from America.
| Quote: | | This week's Home Run Derby in Detroit will be contested among players from eight countries. |
Only 108 more to go to have all the IOC countries!
Oh, and another thing. The person complains about sports like Baminton - let me see, why do sports have to be big hitting and exciting? Oh, wait, baseball has even less action! Most of the time it's as exciting by watching a player walk, hit the ball and run. At least in badminton they have rallies and so on. So I say quit the whinning! 
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:13 am |
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I don't mind that they dropped baseball and softball, but they better drop that stupid ribbon-on-a-stick thing (whatever it's called) too!
Also, with so many multi-national single-sport exhibitions and competitions, and with the admission of professionals, the Olympics are no longer in need. It has outlived its usefulness and been perverted into a cash cow.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:11 pm |
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| Jeremy wrote: | They really are American sports than international ones though. It mentions some of the fastest growing sports, but what are the proper figures for the countries, really? And although there may be 126 countries with a team, what are they? I haven't even heard of baseball being playing in any other country apart from America.
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Then you really need to educate yourself.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:40 pm |
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Baseball is wildly popular in Canada, the Carribbean and Latin America, and Eastern Asia.
This is another case of stodgy anti-americanites who think that they're better than anyone else. That's all it is, pretentious, stuck up, arrogant, intolerant bureocrats; who think America is wrong 100% of the time.
I say we drop Soccer. America generally doesn't watch soccer, so who needs it? It's a snoozefest anyways. (If only we did have that attitude)...
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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| Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:50 pm |
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I played softball in school. I am not in America.
It's stupid (the decision, not the game).
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:08 am |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Jeremy wrote: | They really are American sports than international ones though. It mentions some of the fastest growing sports, but what are the proper figures for the countries, really? And although there may be 126 countries with a team, what are they? I haven't even heard of baseball being playing in any other country apart from America.
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Then you really need to educate yourself. |
Ok, maybe that was a bit of an exaduration. But drop soccer? It's a lot more popular the world over. And it would be exactly the same kind of thing you're complaining about.
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Cathexis
The Angel of Avalon
Joined: 26 Dec 2001
Posts: 5901
Location: ~~ Where Dreams Have No End�
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| Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:29 am |
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This sucks...it's not fair...the one thing I LIKE about the Olympics and care about, next to where they're hosted, has been ixnayed! *anger boils*
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:30 am |
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I'm not saying it's fair as such btw, in case people misunderstand me, but some things have to be dropped, and at some point it's going to be American stuff.
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Cathexis
The Angel of Avalon
Joined: 26 Dec 2001
Posts: 5901
Location: ~~ Where Dreams Have No End�
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| Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:32 am |
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yes....I know, but soccer gives the Europeans an unfair advantage over the U.S. and Canada....we suck at soccer, as a nation...BASEBALL is the AMERICAN sport....and, the Japanese love it too so there
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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| Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:55 am |
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Brazil is the country that most people think of as the best at footy (soccer). I don't think that's in Europe, somehow
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:22 am |
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Oh, and an unfair advantage is having one country made up of the equivalent of about 50 small ones, so you have much more people to choose from when you're selecting people to play
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:01 pm |
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| Jeremy wrote: | | I'm not saying it's fair as such btw, in case people misunderstand me, but some things have to be dropped, and at some point it's going to be American stuff. |
A- Why does anything have to be dropped?
B- What, from the rest of the world,has been dropped?
Technically the US is 50 soverign nations, under one union.
If the US is going to be treated as ONE, then the EU should be treated as ONE as well. Getting an equal say. If you ask me, France or Belgium should have no more of a say than, lets say, Florida or Minnesota.
And when I said drop soccer, I was being sarcastic to prove a point.
Last edited by LightningBoy on Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:02 pm |
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| Cathexis wrote: | | yes....I know, but soccer gives the Europeans an unfair advantage over the U.S. and Canada....we suck at soccer, as a nation...BASEBALL is the AMERICAN sport....and, the Japanese love it too so there |
Even though the US regularly dominates women's soccer.
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:18 pm |
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They should have dropped one or the other, not both. I think they are too similar to have both of them in the olympics.
Archery is way cooler than baseball. IMO baseball is boring... it's basically rounders, which was this awful game they made me play in school... but I suppose it is a little unfair on Americans to replace it with synchronised swimming because that's the lamest "sport" on the planet.
| Quote: | | Apparently, they're not that keen on studying history, either, since they'd all be speaking German and wearing brown shirts if it weren't for Uncle Sam. |
Stop dragging that up. They turned up late to the war, and a self obsessed American general prolonged the fighting in Italy by two months, leading to many allied deaths. We were doing a perfect pincer movement, but your general wanted to go back up north to see a documentry he was in.  You also dropped napalm on innocent Vietnamese children... slaughtered the native Americans....etc
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:53 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | Jeremy wrote: | | I'm not saying it's fair as such btw, in case people misunderstand me, but some things have to be dropped, and at some point it's going to be American stuff. |
A- Why does anything have to be dropped?
B- What, from the rest of the world,has been dropped?
Technically the US is 50 soverign nations, under one union.
If the US is going to be treated as ONE, then the EU should be treated as ONE as well. Getting an equal say. If you ask me, France or Belgium should have no more of a say than, lets say, Florida or Minnesota.
And when I said drop soccer, I was being sarcastic to prove a point. |
If they are going to be treated as seperate then you should use the players seperatly as well, so that there is no advantage.
Stuff is always dropped, it rotates around, depending on each year. Presumably it is because it'd be too expensive to build all the things for hosting. In fact that might be the reason they have been dropped. They'd need to build a baseball stadium, and, to be honest, it wouldn't be used in the UK that much. But for synchronised swimming you use a pool which is already there.
And I agree with Ruth, don't bring the war up. We could just as easily say you wouldn't be there if people didn't emigrate to the Americas.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:58 pm |
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| Jeremy wrote: | | Oh, and an unfair advantage is having one country made up of the equivalent of about 50 small ones, so you have much more people to choose from when you're selecting people to play |
That's not exactly correct. Many of the players in the MLB couldn't play for the US in the Olympics. The same is true with the NBA. Dropping baseball is like dropping hockey for Canada.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:36 pm |
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| Quote: | Selig Won't Bow to IOC to Get Baseball Back in Olympics
Commissioner Refuses to Agree to Demands for Tougher Anti-Doping Rules
By RONALD BLUM, AP Sports
DETROIT (July 12) - Major League Baseball will not agree to the changes demanded by the International Olympic Committee for reinstating the sport for the 2016 Games.
The IOC voted Friday to kick out baseball and softball following the 2008 Beijing Olympics. IOC president Jacques Rogge said the sports would be eligible to reapply in 2009, but they could not be reinstated for the 2012 London Games.
Rogge said baseball, which became a medal sport in 1992, would be reinstated only if it allows its best players to compete in the Olympics and adopts tougher anti-doping rules.
"I was saddened by what the Olympics did. Do I believe it will affect the way the sport is run? No," baseball commissioner Bud Selig said before Tuesday night's All-Star Game.
While professionals played in the 2000 and 2004 Olympics, only players not on 40-man major league rosters were eligible. During a question-and-answer session with the Baseball Writers' Association of America, Selig said sending top stars to the Olympics was not possible.
"I'm not going to stop the season," he said. "There is no set of circumstances for me to be able to say to teams in late August, `Well, now, take two weeks off guys. We'll see you all except 20 or 25 people, whatever numbers there are, that are going to play for either the United States or for the other countries. That's just not practical. In the heart of pennant races, this is just absurd."
Selig said the steroid issue "wasn't a valid reason" for the IOC to cite.
"There are a lot of rumors about how they operate and what they think about America and so on and so forth," he said. "I can't quantify those things, but I am confident today in telling you that the World Cup, the World Classic, will be so big that they will change their outlook on why baseball should be in the Olympics."
Major League Baseball and its players' association announced plans Monday for a 16-nation World Baseball Classic in March, a tournament likely to be played again in 2009 and each four years after that.
"I don't think any of us today understand how big this is going to be," he said.
Selig awaits a response from the players' union to his April proposal to increase penalties for positive steroid tests to 50 games for a first offense, 100 for a second and a lifetime ban for a third. The current penalties, which began in March, are 10 days for a first offense, 30 for a second, 60 for a third and one year for a fourth. After that, the commissioner can decide.
Several congressmen have pushed for federal legislation that would mandate tougher standards, and they criticized Selig and union head Donald Fehr at a hearing during spring training that included Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Jose Canseco and Rafael Palmeiro.
Six major league players have tested positive this year, but no top stars.
"Is the current program working? It is in my judgment," Selig said. "But I believe there is a deeper issue involved here, and I saw it in the eyes of some of those players on March 17.
"I believe there is an integrity issue involved here. I believe the integrity issue transcends whether this program is working or not. That is a question that is academic as far as I'm concerned. I believe that we must create everywhere the understanding that we mean to rid this sport of steroids, that we are not kidding. And the perception that we don't mean it is there."
Because players are spread out and frequently traveling, the union has said it needs time to formulate a response.
"I understand their process is a little more fragmented than ours," Selig said. "They know I am anxious. I think time is running on us."
Selig said if players don't agree to tougher rules, he would favor legislation.
"We should never let a third party do what we have to do," he said. "It sets bad precedent."
Selig also defended San Francisco's Barry Bonds, who testified before a federal grand jury investigating illegal steroids distribution. Bonds, who has not been indicted, is 52 homers shy of Hank Aaron's career record of 755 but has not played yet this season while recovering from knee surgery.
"Barry hasn't been convicted of anything. It's unfair at this point," he said of those who criticize the outfielder. "The sport is having a great year. Has Barry's absence helped or hurt? I don't know, I really don't know."
On other topics, Selig said:
The status of Pete Rose, whose application for reinstatement to baseball has been pending since 1997, has not changed in the past year.
Remarks by Rep. Tom Davis critical of billionaire George Soros won't be considered as baseball weighs offers for the Washington Nationals.
The Florida Marlins remain confident they will be able to assemble financing for a new ballpark.
Whether New York investor Stuart Sternberg, who last year bought 48 percent of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, takes over control from managing general partner Vince Naimoli is "a thing that he and Vince Naimoli are going to have to work out."
The 2008 All-Star game will be in an American League city following NL sites the next two years (Pittsburgh and San Francisco).
Major League Baseball expects revenue will be $4.5 billion to $4.6 billion this year and has more than $3.5 billion in debt.
He hopes to shorten the Home Run Derby, which took 3 hours, 3 minutes Monday night.
The "debt-service rule does not serve as a (salary) cap, does not inhibit people's spending."
07/12/05 19:45 EDT
Copyright 2005 The Associated Press.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:50 pm |
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| Jeremy wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | Jeremy wrote: | | I'm not saying it's fair as such btw, in case people misunderstand me, but some things have to be dropped, and at some point it's going to be American stuff. |
A- Why does anything have to be dropped?
B- What, from the rest of the world,has been dropped?
Technically the US is 50 soverign nations, under one union.
If the US is going to be treated as ONE, then the EU should be treated as ONE as well. Getting an equal say. If you ask me, France or Belgium should have no more of a say than, lets say, Florida or Minnesota.
And when I said drop soccer, I was being sarcastic to prove a point. |
If they are going to be treated as seperate then you should use the players seperatly as well, so that there is no advantage.
Stuff is always dropped, it rotates around, depending on each year. Presumably it is because it'd be too expensive to build all the things for hosting. In fact that might be the reason they have been dropped. They'd need to build a baseball stadium, and, to be honest, it wouldn't be used in the UK that much. But for synchronised swimming you use a pool which is already there.
And I agree with Ruth, don't bring the war up. We could just as easily say you wouldn't be there if people didn't emigrate to the Americas. |
First off, sure. I'd be happy to see each state in the olympics.
Second, How hard is it to find a field, throw up some bleachers, a backstop, some sand, and a few bases? Baseball is one of the least costly sports that exist.
Third, who brought up the war, wasn't me? As for Ruth's comments regarding it, completely out of line. Pretty ungrateful too. This IS a political move, don't kid yourself into thinking that the European led Olympics don't have animosity toward America for all sorts of political reasons. The fact is, the world has treated the US (which is, by all technical accounts, the most generous, most helpful nation in Earth's history) unfairly. You're scrapping for wrong moves the US has made. Let's not forget that the first major conflicts against the Indians were in the French Indian war, which was propegated by the Brittish Military long before the US even existed, leading the colonists, and eventual Americans down a long bloody road with the native peoples. Also Vietnam, you bring up, a war started by France, and run by the U.S.'s most corrupt leader of all time (LBJ). Yes, one black spot on our history, far fewer than most any other nation. Fact is, the US has done good for this world time and time again, and now that our culture is naturally outgrowing itself and spilling into other nations, the traditionalists around other parts of the world like to blame the US. This is just one more example. Baseball is a great sport, and should be in the Olympics, just as much as Soccer should.
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Cathexis
The Angel of Avalon
Joined: 26 Dec 2001
Posts: 5901
Location: ~~ Where Dreams Have No End�
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| Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:07 pm |
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| Seven of Nine wrote: | | Brazil is the country that most people think of as the best at footy (soccer). I don't think that's in Europe, somehow |
Lol, I forgot about them lol..sorry! But all I ever hear are European names...my best friend's father or uncle is English and he's really good...though I'm not saying that that means ALL English are good, but them Europeans have skills!
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:58 pm |
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| Quote: | | How hard is it to find a field, throw up some bleachers, a backstop, some sand, and a few bases? Baseball is one of the least costly sports that exist. |
If they did that, you'd just complain that they were spending more money on the other stadiums, and that there was nowhere to sit.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:24 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | Jeremy wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | Jeremy wrote: | | I'm not saying it's fair as such btw, in case people misunderstand me, but some things have to be dropped, and at some point it's going to be American stuff. |
A- Why does anything have to be dropped?
B- What, from the rest of the world,has been dropped?
Technically the US is 50 soverign nations, under one union.
If the US is going to be treated as ONE, then the EU should be treated as ONE as well. Getting an equal say. If you ask me, France or Belgium should have no more of a say than, lets say, Florida or Minnesota.
And when I said drop soccer, I was being sarcastic to prove a point. |
If they are going to be treated as seperate then you should use the players seperatly as well, so that there is no advantage.
Stuff is always dropped, it rotates around, depending on each year. Presumably it is because it'd be too expensive to build all the things for hosting. In fact that might be the reason they have been dropped. They'd need to build a baseball stadium, and, to be honest, it wouldn't be used in the UK that much. But for synchronised swimming you use a pool which is already there.
And I agree with Ruth, don't bring the war up. We could just as easily say you wouldn't be there if people didn't emigrate to the Americas. |
First off, sure. I'd be happy to see each state in the olympics.
Second, How hard is it to find a field, throw up some bleachers, a backstop, some sand, and a few bases? Baseball is one of the least costly sports that exist.
Third, who brought up the war, wasn't me? As for Ruth's comments regarding it, completely out of line. Pretty ungrateful too. This IS a political move, don't kid yourself into thinking that the European led Olympics don't have animosity toward America for all sorts of political reasons. The fact is, the world has treated the US (which is, by all technical accounts, the most generous, most helpful nation in Earth's history) unfairly. You're scrapping for wrong moves the US has made. Let's not forget that the first major conflicts against the Indians were in the French Indian war, which was propegated by the Brittish Military long before the US even existed, leading the colonists, and eventual Americans down a long bloody road with the native peoples. Also Vietnam, you bring up, a war started by France, and run by the U.S.'s most corrupt leader of all time (LBJ). Yes, one black spot on our history, far fewer than most any other nation. Fact is, the US has done good for this world time and time again, and now that our culture is naturally outgrowing itself and spilling into other nations, the traditionalists around other parts of the world like to blame the US. This is just one more example. Baseball is a great sport, and should be in the Olympics, just as much as Soccer should. |
It's good about the states, I don't mind there being lots more American IOC members if you seperate the states.
Building a stadium is not a cheap option, and when it would almost certainly not be used apart from once or twice after then it is even more costly to make.
America hasn't done these things for "good" as such. I used to be pretty pro american until recently. I still do support acting against countries that have problems but look at what America has done (and Britian, not just saying America). They say the Saudi government is fine. Em, how about NOT! They are pretty much as bad as North Korea on human right protection. Except our governments won't do anything because they get oil from them. So the excuse about helping for human right protection is Iraq is not true.
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:25 am |
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I never thought of baseball as being part of the olympics, it just doesn't fit in. Same with basketball in case you guys think I'm biased Don't think it's really hateful towards the states, as sports get added and are thrown out pretty reguraly.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:26 am |
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| Jeremy wrote: |
America hasn't done these things for "good" as such. I used to be pretty pro american until recently. I still do support acting against countries that have problems but look at what America has done (and Britian, not just saying America). They say the Saudi government is fine. Em, how about NOT! They are pretty much as bad as North Korea on human right protection. Except our governments won't do anything because they get oil from them. So the excuse about helping for human right protection is Iraq is not true. |
Since even the mods are drifting, we'll just go with the flow.
We don't do things for "good"? No, I suppose when you really think about it, giving away billions in cash and other things is purely all for our gain.
And with the rest of your comments, I'll have to assume that you do not understand politics. I really can't beleive you have the audacity to say that the US and the UK only helped Iraq for their own gain. I don't know about in the UK, but here in the US, do you know how much oil we've gotten from Iraq since the war? ZERO. In fact, things have gotten worse. And those women who can, OMG, speak now without being spoken too and not get beat or stoned to death? They don't appreciate the help, either.
Saudi Arabia is an ally. You'd prefer to send troops in instead of trying to work the diplomatic channels? (which is being done, btw), fine, you run right in there. And how about the human rights in Cambodia? Or many parts of South America? Let's not forget those under Castro's regime. If "one at a time" is beyond your comprehension, I'm sorry. But I guess until we clone people, and weapons, etc, become free... , we'll have to do the cost effective thing.
And we have one of the worst human rights problems. Yeah, sure.
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