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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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 Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:40 am Changelings bypassing the blood screenings? |
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In the episode The Way of the Warrior Martok cuts his hand to prove he isn't a Changeling and forces Sisko and Kira to do the same. The show taught us that a Changelings blood when seperated from the body reverts to its natural form. Martok's blood didn't revert. We later find out though in the episode Apocalypse Rising that Martok had been a Changeling all along. Since the first time we saw him on the show. So how did he pass the blood screening? There is a thoery that Joseph Sisko gave. He said that maybe Changeling abosorb blood and hold it in them and let it out for the screenings. I buy that theory over anything else. Anyone else know?
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:49 pm |
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I suppose thats the only explanation I could give too. The Joseph Sisko theory. Also, in Paradise Lost, you can see, they can fake them the other way too. They fake the test to get Sisko arrested.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:04 am |
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Yeah, thats true. Clever Founders.
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InterstellarCrazed
Commander
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 356
Location: United States
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:13 pm |
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I never even thought about that Founder! Martok did pass the test from the start of the show. The Joseph Sisko Theory as you call it would seem to be the only explanation that could pass but isn�t it true that if you keep blood just outside without some way to pump it and get it fresh, it would become noticeable to any person? By holding it in a section of there body, does that keep the blood in a state of freshness? Also how is it that they managed to cut there body in the right spot with out part of it reverting back to its natural state? And if they had managed to fool the blood screening, how is it that blood screenings still seemed to work in later episodes?
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm |
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| InterstellarCrazed wrote: | | I never even thought about that Founder! Martok did pass the test from the start of the show. The Joseph Sisko Theory as you call it would seem to be the only explanation that could pass but isn�t it true that if you keep blood just outside without some way to pump it and get it fresh, it would become noticeable to any person? By holding it in a section of there body, does that keep the blood in a state of freshness? Also how is it that they managed to cut there body in the right spot with out part of it reverting back to its natural state? And if they had managed to fool the blood screening, how is it that blood screenings still seemed to work in later episodes? |
Actually it embarrasses me to admit this, but I think I was wrong. I don't think Martok was a Changeling at that point.
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InterstellarCrazed
Commander
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 356
Location: United States
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:52 pm |
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Ha, which episode was it that he did cut his hand to see if there was any blood? If he had one eye then it was after the internment camp that Worf and Garak went to, if he had both of his eyes then it was a changling.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:18 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | InterstellarCrazed wrote: | | I never even thought about that Founder! Martok did pass the test from the start of the show. The Joseph Sisko Theory as you call it would seem to be the only explanation that could pass but isn�t it true that if you keep blood just outside without some way to pump it and get it fresh, it would become noticeable to any person? By holding it in a section of there body, does that keep the blood in a state of freshness? Also how is it that they managed to cut there body in the right spot with out part of it reverting back to its natural state? And if they had managed to fool the blood screening, how is it that blood screenings still seemed to work in later episodes? |
Actually it embarrasses me to admit this, but I think I was wrong. I don't think Martok was a Changeling at that point. |
No, no, he was. When Martok met Worf in the prison thingy, Martok said he'd never seen him before.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:09 pm |
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You are both right. I recorded the episode a while back and watched it. He has both of his eyes. I guess he just faked the test. It makes sense why he was pushing for the Klingons to keep attacking DS9. 
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:26 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | Actually it embarrasses me to admit this, but I think I was wrong. |
Woah Woah Woaaaahhh .... That is trippy!!!
Sorry for the spam, this was just toooo hard to resist.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:28 pm |
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| zero wrote: | | Founder wrote: |
Actually it embarrasses me to admit this, but I think I was wrong. |
Woah Woah Woaaaahhh .... That is trippy!!!
Sorry for the spam, this was just toooo hard to resist. |
Thanks for adding nothing to the topic as usual. Leave this topic, before you start another argument and get it locked.
On topic....
If Martok was a Changeling all the way in this episode, he was within Klingon politics for a LONG time. This would explain the Federation-Klingon war too...
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InterstellarCrazed
Commander
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 356
Location: United States
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:30 pm |
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| zero wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | Actually it embarrasses me to admit this, but I think I was wrong. |
Woah Woah Woaaaahhh .... That is trippy!!!
Sorry for the spam, this was just toooo hard to resist. |
He was right zero,
Now back to my question earlier that wasn't answered. How can Blood be kept inside of Martok for so long without it losing its freshness? Isn't there a limit on how long blood can be kept before it goes "sour�?
-------signature-------
Beam me up Scotty
"If I may be so bold -- it was a mistake for you to accept promotion. Commanding a starship is your first, best destiny. Anything else is waste of material."
-- Spock
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InterstellarCrazed
Commander
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 356
Location: United States
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:33 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | If Martok was a Changeling all the way in this episode, he was within Klingon politics for a LONG time. This would explain the Federation-Klingon war too... |
He could only have been a member of the Klingon Politics from Season one of DS9 when Dax and Sisko discovered the worm hole. I don't think that they could have gathered so much information on Klingons to be able to pass like the changeling did with Martok, It's a little hard to comprehend. I don�t think he was responsible for a Klingon � Federation war unless it was after season one, and if it was� Boy have I missed something.
-------signature-------
Beam me up Scotty
"If I may be so bold -- it was a mistake for you to accept promotion. Commanding a starship is your first, best destiny. Anything else is waste of material."
-- Spock
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:40 pm |
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| InterstellarCrazed wrote: | | zero wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | Actually it embarrasses me to admit this, but I think I was wrong. |
Woah Woah Woaaaahhh .... That is trippy!!!
Sorry for the spam, this was just toooo hard to resist. |
He was right zero,
Now back to my question earlier that wasn't answered. How can Blood be kept inside of Martok for so long without it losing its freshness? Isn't there a limit on how long blood can be kept before it goes "sour�? |
Maybe the Founders have a method of keeping it "fresh". I wasn't aware of a limit on blood's "freshness". You gotta also remember, the Founders are brilliant. They always think ahead and seem to be ready for anything. They probably know when they'll need the blood.
| InterstellarCrazed wrote: | | He could only have been a member of the Klingon Politics from Season one of DS9 when Dax and Sisko discovered the worm hole. I don't think that they could have gathered so much information on Klingons to be able to pass like the changeling did with Martok, It's a little hard to comprehend. I don�t think he was responsible for a Klingon � Federation war unless it was after season one, and if it was� Boy have I missed something. |
I agree. I think he switched places probably not that early on though. MAybe around Season III? When the Federation discovered the Jem'Hadar and the Dominion itself. Then the Dominion grew worried about an Alpha Quadrant invasion.
The Klingon-Federation war was after Season One. 
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InterstellarCrazed
Commander
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 356
Location: United States
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:47 pm |
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| Founder wrote: |
Maybe the Founders have a method of keeping it "fresh". I wasn't aware of a limit on blood's "freshness". You gotta also remember, the Founders are brilliant. They always think ahead and seem to be ready for anything. They probably know when they'll need the blood.
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I'm not sayint that there is a limit on Blood's freshness, In fact I really have no Idea if there is or isn't. I'm not a PreMed major of any kind. They don't always know when they would need the blood, If that is the real story. Back in In Purgatory's Shadow and By Inferno's Light Doctor Bashir was switched with a Founder, but he got found out because of blood testing.
| Founder wrote: |
I agree. I think he switched places probably not that early on though. MAybe around Season III? When the Federation discovered the Jem'Hadar and the Dominion itself. Then the Dominion grew worried about an Alpha Quadrant invasion.
The Klingon-Federation war was after Season One. |
There really was a Klingon Federation war?? Which episode if you know? (I'm currently watching season four on DVD).
-------signature-------
Beam me up Scotty
"If I may be so bold -- it was a mistake for you to accept promotion. Commanding a starship is your first, best destiny. Anything else is waste of material."
-- Spock
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:51 pm |
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| InterstellarCrazed wrote: | | Founder wrote: |
Maybe the Founders have a method of keeping it "fresh". I wasn't aware of a limit on blood's "freshness". You gotta also remember, the Founders are brilliant. They always think ahead and seem to be ready for anything. They probably know when they'll need the blood.
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I'm not sayint that there is a limit on Blood's freshness, In fact I really have no Idea if there is or isn't. I'm not a PreMed major of any kind. They don't always know when they would need the blood, If that is the real story. Back in In Purgatory's Shadow and By Inferno's Light Doctor Bashir was switched with a Founder, but he got found out because of blood testing.
| Founder wrote: |
I agree. I think he switched places probably not that early on though. MAybe around Season III? When the Federation discovered the Jem'Hadar and the Dominion itself. Then the Dominion grew worried about an Alpha Quadrant invasion.
The Klingon-Federation war was after Season One. |
There really was a Klingon Federation war?? Which episode if you know? (I'm currently watching season four on DVD). |
The Bashir Changeling wasn't discovered by a blood screening. In fact, the Changeling ENCOURAGES a blood screening. He was discovered because the real Bashir hailed the station.
The Klingon-Federation war began after the two parter "Way of the Warrior". 
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InterstellarCrazed
Commander
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 356
Location: United States
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:00 pm |
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| Founder wrote: |
The Bashir Changeling wasn't discovered by a blood screening. In fact, the Changeling ENCOURAGES a blood screening. He was discovered because the real Bashir hailed the station.
Now that you say that I do remember that he encouraged a blood screening, I can't remember how they discovered that he was a changeling. I know that It was on the bridge of the defiant, but I could have sworn it was from a screening.
The Klingon-Federation war began after the two parter "Way of the Warrior".
No wonder I havn't heard that much about it, I'm watching season four right now! (I skipped Way of the Warrior to watch sword of Kahless).
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-------signature-------
Beam me up Scotty
"If I may be so bold -- it was a mistake for you to accept promotion. Commanding a starship is your first, best destiny. Anything else is waste of material."
-- Spock
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:05 pm |
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| InterstellarCrazed wrote: | | Founder wrote: |
The Bashir Changeling wasn't discovered by a blood screening. In fact, the Changeling ENCOURAGES a blood screening. He was discovered because the real Bashir hailed the station.
Now that you say that I do remember that he encouraged a blood screening, I can't remember how they discovered that he was a changeling. I know that It was on the bridge of the defiant, but I could have sworn it was from a screening.
The Klingon-Federation war began after the two parter "Way of the Warrior".
No wonder I havn't heard that much about it, I'm watching season four right now! (I skipped Way of the Warrior to watch sword of Kahless).
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It wasn't on the Bridge of the Defiant. What happened was, OPS recieved a hail from the real Bashir. Then Sisko tried to locate "Bashir" and discovered he wasn't on the station. Then he ordered Kira, who was on the Defiant, to pursue the shuttle and fire on it. They stopped the Changeling from detonating an explosive in the sun which would wipe out the joined fleets.
I apologize for ruining the war. I had no idea, you were just starting on the season.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:27 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | zero wrote: | | Founder wrote: |
Actually it embarrasses me to admit this, but I think I was wrong. |
Woah Woah Woaaaahhh .... That is trippy!!!
Sorry for the spam, this was just toooo hard to resist. |
Thanks for adding nothing to the topic as usual. Leave this topic, before you start another argument and get it locked.
On topic....
If Martok was a Changeling all the way in this episode, he was within Klingon politics for a LONG time. This would explain the Federation-Klingon war too... |
Founder, that's my job. Next time, just let me handle it, okay? Zero, there was no call for that. If you have to say that you're "sorry" for the spam, then the choice is quite simple--don't post it. Zero does not have to leave this topic if she wants to participate in the discussion itself. Both you, watch it.
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luit14
Commodore
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 2232
Location: Come on in HEEERE! :P
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:27 pm |
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Back to the original quesion, I think the writers probly just didn't know at the time of Way of the Warrior that he was a changeling, cuz they hadn't written it in yet.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:28 pm |
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Actually, I belive I heard some truth to the Joseph Sisko Theroy, Like they held some blood or somthing.
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luit14
Commodore
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 2232
Location: Come on in HEEERE! :P
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:30 pm |
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Yeah, that sounds like a good star trek explanation to me.
And, about the federation blood screenings, what do they do? Scan for the blood inside them?
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:33 pm |
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When a part of the Changeling's "body" leaves them, it reverts to its natural form. So when they took out the blood, it would turn back into its natural form. Thats how the test went.
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luit14
Commodore
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 2232
Location: Come on in HEEERE! :P
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:35 pm |
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Yeah, I get that, but I mean, do they cut them or draw a sample or what?
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:38 pm |
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| luit14 wrote: | | Yeah, I get that, but I mean, do they cut them or draw a sample or what? |
They would use a hypospray from what I've seen. Then they pull out the tube inside of it and look at the blood.
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luit14
Commodore
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 2232
Location: Come on in HEEERE! :P
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| Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:40 pm |
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Ok, thanks. The only time I remember seeing it done is on The Way of the Warrior and it didn't show much. But I've only seen seasons 5-7 and a few random others. Gonna be getting season 4 hopefully soon though. 
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