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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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 Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:26 pm Same-sex legislation passed |
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| CBC.ca wrote: | Same-sex legislation passed
Last Updated Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:58:08 EDT
CBC News
The Liberals' controversial same-sex marriage legislation has passed final reading the House of Commons, sailing through with a vote of 158 for and 133 against.
Supported by most members of the Liberals, the Bloc Quebecois and the NDP, the legislation passed easily, making Canada only the third country in the world, after the Netherlands and Belgium, to officially recognize same-sex unions.
But the passage of Bill C-38, once again, came with a political price tag for the government. Joe Comuzzi, resigned from the cabinet so he could vote against the bill - an open rebuke of the government legislation.
Comuzzi was the minister responsible for Northern Ontario.
Although he was the only cabinet minister to break ranks with Prime Minister Paul Martin over the controversial plan to legalize the marriage of gays and lesbians, it highlighted the divisions within Canada and the within the Liberal party, pitting supporters of equality rights against those who are defending religious freedoms.
For Comuzzi, the decision to resign meant putting principles ahead of the privileges of cabinet. "In 2004, during the election, I promised faithfully to the people of Thunder Bay-Superior North, that I would defend the definition of marriage," he said, explaining his move.
The prime minister said he regretted the decision of a man he called an "old friend," but accepts it because the government must speak with one voice on same-sex marriage.
The "vote is about the Charter of Rights," said Martin. "We're a nation of minorities and in a nation of minorities you don't cherry-pick rights."
The government has moved over the last few months to appease critics both within Liberal ranks and among Canadians at large. Amendments were introduced to ensure no religious group or charitable organization is forced to accept same-sex marriage. But in spite of those amendments some groups remain unconvinced.
Same-sex marriage remains one of the most difficult issues ever to confront Canadian politicians. In large part passage of the bill is the reason the parliamentary session was extended for the first time in 17 years.
But while Tuesday night's vote closes off the debate in the Commons, the Conservatives insist there is no closure for Canadians who believe marriage should continue to be defined as the union of a man and a woman, to the exclusion of all others.
Conservative Leader Stephen Harper says if his party forms the next government, the law will be revisited.
Harper made the promise one day after suggesting the adoption of the law lacked legitimacy because it relied on the support of the separatist Bloc Quebecois. Harper said he believes Bloc MPs are the legitimate representatives of Quebec voters. But he argues most Canadians aren't buying it as a final decision since most federalist MPs are opposed to same-sex marriage.
Harper says a Conservative government would hold a free vote for all MPs on the matter, rather than forcing cabinet ministers to vote with the government.
Copyright �2005 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation - All Rights Reserved |
Source
I live in Thunder Bay, although my MP is Ken Boschoff, the other Thunder Bay MP, so this event hits quite close to home.
I find Harper's questioning of the Bloc's legitimacy to be highly hypocritical. This coming from the same guy who was ready to team up with the Bloc to bring down the government. Politicians. . . . gah.
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:14 am |
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I'm glad Canada as approved the gay marriage now too!  One step further in the right direction, imo. 
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Nosce te ipsum
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Otter
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 12895
Location: England
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| Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:25 am |
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yeah, Way 2 go
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nadia
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Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 8560
Location: Australia
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| Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:56 am |
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| Birdy wrote: | | I'm glad Canada as approved the gay marriage now too! One step further in the right direction, imo. |
Are they letting gays marry??
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:08 am |
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Hmmmmmmmmm, it says "officially recognize same-sex unions." But anyway, its a step forward, I'm sure.
Edit: Just saw an article on CNN that said yeah, they're allowing same sex marriage, 
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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purple_kathryn
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 91
Location: Belfast
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| Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:57 am |
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I always have a little private cheer when I read these kind of stories, every little step counts
Kathryn
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"There's not much makeup in the army, is there? No. They only have that nighttime look, and that's a bit slapdash, isn't it?" - Eddie Izzard
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:10 pm |
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Just some updates: the bill still has to go through the Senate and then get Royal Assent. However, the House of Commons is the biggest hurdle--the Senate usually doesn't do anything, and Royal Assent is truly a formality.
Alberta premier Ralph Klein says he's considering dumping the Marriage Act altogether:
| CBC.ca wrote: | Alberta may stop solemnizing marriages: Klein
Last Updated Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:30:35 EDT
CBC News
Alberta Premier Ralph Klein has suggested that his province may get out of the marriage business altogether in the wake of the passage of same-sex marriage legislation in the House of Commons Tuesday.
Klein was meeting with his members of the provincial legislature Wednesday morning to decide how to continue the fight against same-sex marriage.
But he acknowledged Tuesday that he had few options.
''There are no legal weapons. There's nothing left in the arsenal,'' Klein said. ''We're out on a lurch.''
Klein repeated that using the notwithstanding clause is not an option because the definition of marriage falls under federal jurisdiction, and the province can't affect that.
Instead, Klein proposed that the province might withdraw from sanctioning marriages and just recognize civil unions, leaving marriage to religious orders.
''We simply wouldn't be involved in the solemnization of marriage,'' he said.
The Liberals' controversial same-sex marriage legislation passed final reading Tuesday night, sailing through in a 158-133 vote.
Supported by most members of the Liberals, the Bloc Qu�b�cois and the NDP, the legislation made Canada only the third country in the world, after the Netherlands and Belgium, to officially recognize same-sex marriage.
In an effort to those opposed to the legislation, amendments had been introduced to ensure no religious group or charitable organization would be forced to accept same-sex marriage.
Conservative Leader Stephen Harper said if his party forms the next government, the law will be revisited. He said he would hold a free vote for all MPs on the matter, rather than forcing cabinet ministers to vote with the government.
Harper made the promise one day after suggesting the adoption of the law lacked legitimacy because it relied on the support of the separatist Bloc Qu�b�cois.
Copyright �2005 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation - All Rights Reserved |
Source
If that happens . . . I predict lots of people leaving Alberta to go get married elsewhere.
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nadia
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Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 8560
Location: Australia
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| Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:19 am |
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You people are happy that they are letting men marry other men and woman marry other woman????????????????????
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:03 am |
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| nadia wrote: | | You people are happy that they are letting men marry other men and woman marry other woman???????????????????? |
Yeah! Well, I am.
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Nosce te ipsum
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Otter
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 12895
Location: England
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| Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:07 am |
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at the side of all the evil in this world it's no big deal, Surely?
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:33 am |
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Spain's lower house of parliament approved them today (or maybe yesterday) too.
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ILoveHarry
Admiral
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 7909
Location: Houston
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| Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:11 am |
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| nadia wrote: | | You people are happy that they are letting men marry other men and woman marry other woman???????????????????? |
Um...yeah... what's not to be happy about? Love is love. True love is a very rare thing. Why deny it to anybody?
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:26 am |
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| Otter wrote: | | at the side of all the evil in this world it's no big deal, Surely? |
Exactly. It's just love! Imagine we would deny people love. 
| ILoveHarry wrote: | | Um...yeah... what's not to be happy about? Love is love. True love is a very rare thing. Why deny it to anybody? |
true!!!!
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Nosce te ipsum
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:27 am |
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And if people don't like it, they don't have to go to the weddings. All a wedding is is a public declaration of two people's life long love for each other. Also, having gay marriage means that if they have a kid together then their partner can't just walk off and leave them whenever they feel like it. They have to pay child support.
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purple_kathryn
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 91
Location: Belfast
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| Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:04 pm |
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| nadia wrote: | | You people are happy that they are letting men marry other men and woman marry other woman???????????????????? |
Of course if people who love each other want to get married they should be free too. I'm a live and let live person. Does it adversely affect your life in any way? Is anyone being hurt? Thats how I approach things.
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nadia
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Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 8560
Location: Australia
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| Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:30 pm |
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God made Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve!
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:43 pm |
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Yeah God meant for man to be with woman. But, I am not going to be judgemental here cause it is not my place. And of course we will always have this debate though.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:52 pm |
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Heh. We've been around the bend on that one enough times to admit that the argument is getting rather stale. (So stale, in fact, that it used to be a meat loaf!)
Suffice it to say that the government can't make laws on the basis of what any supreme being says. The government can, however, make laws taking into account what supreme beings say. Point in fact: one of the primary reasons for opposing this bill is that it doesn't protect religious institutions enough, who fear they will be forced to perform same-sex marriages. There is a privoso for that:
| Bill C-38 wrote: | | WHEREAS nothing in this Act affects the guarantee of freedom of conscience and religion and, in particular, the freedom of members of religious groups to hold and declare their religious beliefs and the freedom of officials of religious groups to refuse to perform marriages that are not in accordance with their religious beliefs; |
However there are those who feel that is not enough.
The entire text of the bill can be found here in case anyone is actually interested in what exactly it's doing.
In related news, Spain has officially legalized same-sex marriage.
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nadia
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Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 8560
Location: Australia
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| Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:54 pm |
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Well then I suppose we all have our opions! But I still think its wrong!
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:35 am |
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| nadia wrote: | | God made Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve! |
Well, I understand you believe that, but who are you to judge over other people and tell them what to do, just because you believe something different...?
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Nosce te ipsum
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nadia
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Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 8560
Location: Australia
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| Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:55 am |
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| Birdy wrote: | | nadia wrote: | | God made Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve! |
Well, I understand you believe that, but who are you to judge over other people and tell them what to do, just because you believe something different...? |
Im not judging them, I just belive what they are doing is wrong thats all. God says not to hate a person because of there wrong doing, but to hate there wrong doing not them. I mean I have a friend that is gay , and I dont mind being with him!
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:57 am |
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| nadia wrote: | | Im not judging them, I just belive what they are doing is wrong thats all. God says not to hate a person because of there wrong doing, but to hate there wrong doing not them. I mean I have a friend that is gay , and I dont mind being with him! |
But you just don't want him to get married for the law, right?
I'm sorry, I just don't understand that. But let's stop this discussion, it's endless You have your opinion, I have mine.
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Nosce te ipsum
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nadia
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Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 8560
Location: Australia
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| Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:57 am |
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| Birdy wrote: | | nadia wrote: | | Im not judging them, I just belive what they are doing is wrong thats all. God says not to hate a person because of there wrong doing, but to hate there wrong doing not them. I mean I have a friend that is gay , and I dont mind being with him! |
But you just don't want him to get married for the law, right?
I'm sorry, I just don't understand that. But let's stop this discussion, it's endless You have your opinion, I have mine. |
Ok you can think what you want and I will think what I want
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:07 am |
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I am with Nadia on this one. And we all have opinions and that is ok. free speech. But it is not moral. but i don't hate or judge gays like some people think i do. I just don't agree with it. I have a friend that is gay but I don't agree with his life style. I talk to him and hang out with him. But, I don't have to agree.
Like some don't have to agree with me. Their choice and free will.
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:27 am |
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I say it's right. The Canadian Government says it's right. The Dutch Government says it's right. The Belgian Government says it's right. The Spanish Government says it's right. Most Liberal groups say it's right, and many, many other people also say that it's right.
God says it's wrong.
He's sort of outnumbered, don't you think? 
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