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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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 Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:50 pm US Troop Abuse--Opinion Articles |
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Alright, here's O'Reilly's latest column and Talking Points memo on all the Gitmo allegations. I think he's rather right...
| Column wrote: | Hurting Your Country
By: Bill O'Reilly
Thursday, Jun 02, 2005
So how did the USA go from being a beacon of freedom to a champion of the gulag? How exactly did that happen? Well, pull up a chair, here's what happened.
After President Bush won re-election last November, there was much consternation among some powerful anti-Bush Americans. They were stunned that John Kerry lost and feared that if Bush succeeds in his second term, the Democrats would lose again in 2008.
Then came the successful election in Iraq, and the fear on the left multiplied. If Iraq turned out to be a success, Mr. Bush would become a hero. So the need to undermine the Bush administration became more intense than ever. But how to do it? Social Security wasn't emotional enough, particularly for young voters. What could be done to hurt Bush?
Then came the revelation--let's torture the President.
The New York Times had already primed the pump, running more than 50 front-page stories on the abuses at Abu Ghraib. Then came reports from the International Red Cross that more abuse was happening at Guantanamo. The American Civil Liberties Union was already challenging detentions there and so a strategy was sealed: the Bush administration was full of torturers and human rights violators. It was ruining America's reputation throughout the world. Bush was a villain.
It was easy to get that thesis out. The left-wing websites fed anti-Bush columnists like Bob Herbert and Richard Cohen information and the drumbeat intensified. There was torture and abuse and murder all sanctioned by the evil Bush administration. Article after article appeared and soon some TV people followed along. It didn't take long before the torture seed was fully sown.
The Newsweek debacle slowed things down a little, but the anti-Bush press quickly banded together and pronounced that Newsweek's mistake would never have happened if Bush wasn't torturing everybody. I'm sure you read those opinion pieces, as they appeared in liberal newspapers all over the country. The theme and wording was so similar that one person could have written all of those articles. And that was no accident.
All the while this was happening, the President and his crew were doing what they usually do when the press pounds them: nothing. They did not engage the abuse propaganda until it was obvious Newsweek had screwed up. But even that effort was derided by many in The White House press corps, who chided the administration for scolding Newsweek.
Now the torture theme has new momentum. A liberal federal judge in New York City has ruled the Defense Department must release more photos and videos of Abu Ghraib to the ACLU. Of course, that will incite even more hatred against the USA and put our soldiers in more danger but, hey, politics comes before protecting the troops. The anti-Bush people want those pictures almost as badly as Al Jazeera wants them. Another nail in the President's coffin is more important than bodies in real coffins.
If you think I am exaggerating, I assure you I am not. This torture campaign is being run brilliantly, and if Mr. Bush doesn't wise up soon, he will be bloodied just as Lyndon Johnson was in the Vietnam debacle.
The truth is that abuse has occurred, but on a relatively small scale. According to General Richard Myers, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the U.S. has detained about 68,000 people since 9/11 (most have been released), and there have been 325 investigations into alleged abuse. At this writing, about 100 cases of wrongdoing have been substantiated.
That's not a big number, but it doesn't matter to the anti-Bush cabal, which understands that perception is reality in a nation where "reality programming" is the rage of the day. If you can sell the nation that America is now a war criminal, President Hillary Clinton is a real possibility.
So there you have it. For the anti-Bush folks, it is simple: no pain, no gain. Torture is selling and the media is buying. For those of you who are appalled by this analysis, I can only say one thing: sometimes the truth, like torture, hurts. |
| Talking Points Memo wrote: | The Truth About Guantanamo Bay
Tuesday, June 07, 2005
By Bill O'Reilly
The truth about Guantanamo Bay: that is the subject of this evening's "Talking Points Memo".
As we told you last week, the detainee abuse story is being used to undermine the war on terror, at least the way the Bush administration is fighting it. Check out my column posted on billoreilly.com for details on that.
Now over the weekend, Senator Joseph Biden joined the abuse chorus and called for the shutting down of Guantanamo Bay (search).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: [It]...has become the greatest propaganda tool that exists for recruiting of terrorists around the world. And it is unnecessary to be in that position, but the end result is I think we should end up shutting it down, moving those prisoners. Those that we have reason to keep, keep. And those we don't, let go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
We asked the senator to appear this evening, but as always, Biden turned us down. He does not like close questioning.
But it's amazing to me that he and others actually believe that closing Gitmo would accomplish anything. The entire Gitmo situation has been driven by the anti-Bush press and the far left human rights organizations.
As "Talking Points" mentioned a week ago, there have been abuses by U.S. interrogators down there, but not many. And now we have some stats to back that up.
The Pentagon report found that there have been more than 28,000 Gitmo interrogations over the past three years, and only five cases of Koran abuse, two of which were accidental.
And the chief critic from inside Gitmo, former Army translator Eric Saar (search), said this on �The Factor� a few days ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O'REILLY: What was the worst thing you ever saw?
ERIC SAAR: You know, sir, I would have to say the worst thing I saw was actually some of the sexual tactics that were used in the interrogation booth. And I would have to say the reason for that is because it really defied the values we stand for as a country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
And those techniques were unbuttoning blouses, women interrogators, things like that, but no touching or anything like that.
So what are we talking about here? Some minor cases of abuse, that's what. And we should shut down Gitmo because the anti-Bush press doesn't like it? Come on.
The truth is that any closing of Gitmo would send a signal that the USA did indeed abuse Gitmo prisoners on a mass scale. That's not true, but it is a perception the anti-Bush people want out there.
Once again, you can't fight a war on terror when every small mistake is magnified into a page one scandal or a book! Also once again, the Bush administration should set up an independent commission to investigate American detainee policy across the board. The president must take the offensive on this, or else the country's image will continue to suffer and the jihadists and their enablers will win another victory.
And that's "The Memo."
The Most Ridiculous Item of the Day
A bunch of "Factor" items: First the results of our billoreilly.com poll, which asks, "Is Mark Felt aka Deep Throat, a hero, a villain, or is it too hard to say?"
Sixty-four percent of the 25,000 of you who voted believe the man's a villain. Twenty-four percent say it is too hard to say. And just 12 percent think he's a hero. Very interesting.
Second, the lead item in Liz Smith's column today was about "The Factor's" investigation into the money Angelina Jolie (search), the actress, reportedly donated to help third world causes through the U.N.
Ms. Smith writes, quote, "On the heels of the oil-for-food scan (search)dal, is there a chance that Angelina is being taken for a ride by some in the United Nations? Bill O'Reilly says he will answer that question. Soon."
Well, that's true, we're finishing up our investigation into Ms. Jolie's donations. It's very fascinating. The story is probably going to be on Thursday, but we want to be certain so we're taking the time to echeck everything. Rechecking is never ridiculous. |
What say you? I think he's quite right on this...
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:12 pm |
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I think he's being a little over dramatic, but I must agree with you on this one. Remove the un-need drama and its pretty good. I wonder about Al Franken's take on this.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:16 pm |
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| Starbuck wrote: | | I think he's being a little over dramatic, but I must agree with you on this one. Remove the un-need drama and its pretty good. I wonder about Al Franken's take on this. |
Over dramatic? I think he's being LESS "dramatic" than he should be. This is putting more Americans in danger, what the media and other far-left groups are doing, and yet these allegations have little truth to them.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:20 pm |
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Well, the song american idiot is right in one sense. we are "one nation controlled by the media"
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:34 pm |
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| Starbuck wrote: | | Well, the song american idiot is right in one sense. we are "one nation controlled by the media" |
I don't think it's so much THAT, it's just what the terrorists do with what the media keeps doing. I mean, for 47 (or 49, forget which) days IN A ROW the NY Times had their front-page article always be about ABU GRHAIB. Over-doing it. Plus, Newsweek's false allegations of a toylet flushing of the Koran...false, but what happened? 14 deaths were rationalized by that!
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:12 pm |
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everyones controlled by what the media is. thats seriously *beep* up.
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:53 pm |
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The terrorists think we are weak. If we don't toughen up and take the gloves off, they are right. And that is how they will beat us.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:06 am |
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Might as well move all your "POWs" to Poland and start frying them 
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:12 am |
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Oh be nice  Terrorist do think we are weak, but we are not.
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:40 am |
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Have you ever been to Auschwits, Dirk?
and Deb, I'm not so sure of that.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:45 am |
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Okay, I went to another Republican Breakfast this morning and one of the members said exactly the Amnesty International view, and clarified their "gulag" statement, which was OVER THE LINE, and the fact that a member of the club would say that...it's just horrifying. I got up and spoke for a few minutes, speaking what people were asking if I was old enough to vote because of it (in the middle of the speech, too) 
Anyways...
First off, the man commented about the Geneva Convention: Really, they are TERRORISTS, NOT uniformed combatants. The Geneva Convention only applies to UNIFORM combatants. If they had a uniform and became like a regular army, then they would get POW status, but they AREN'T, and therefore don't deserve it. Besides, these terrorists at Gitmo, etc. are at the LEVEL THAT THEY DESERVE. Besides, it looks to me like they are being treated WELL there  But do you think that the troops just choose people out of the blue? That they just say, "Hey, you look good...you're under arrest." NO!! They choose them based on their ACTIONS and INTELLIGENCE that led them to arrest them. My state representative served in Afghanistan--he knows, and faced these peopple in the eye. They are arrested for LOGICAL REASONS!
Second, the word "gulag" is NOT an appropriate word to use for the US. End of story.
Third, when terrorists are let out from Gitmo, what are they going to say? They treated us well? NO! They're going to do what they can to HURT the US. And what are many of them doing when they're released? GOING TO THE TERRORISTS, and joining Al Quada, etc once again!
Fourth, in their quest to hurt the Bush administration in the best possible manner, the media is playing on this, WORSENING the situation. They are simply doing what they can to hurt the president, not giving a damn about what could happen to our troops. This is seen by such things as the NY Times putting Abu Graihb on the front cover of their paper for 47 days STRAIGHT!, the Liberal media's play on Gitmo, and the FALSE Newsweek story about the Koran flushing down the toilet (which lead to the deaths of 14 and hundreds of others). The media's only WORSENING the situation by doing what they're doing, GIVING THE TERRORISTS AMMO, for Cripes' Sake!
And fifth, backing down from Gitmo, etc is JUST what the terrorists want. They want us to back down in the face of image (when the media could just stop doing all that they're doing that's hurting us), they WANT us to BE WEEK! They want us to back down and let them free-it's their WISH! And the media, etc is only playing into the hands of these evil villains!
| Starbuck wrote: | | and Deb, I'm not so sure of that. |
What's that supposed to mean? That we ARE weak? SO false, if so.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:48 am |
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No, I'm not so sure the terrorists think we're weak.
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:50 am |
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I think it's a bit unfair that people want Iraq to fail just so George Bush will look bad. They are not thinking of the actual people who live in iraq
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:24 am |
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We are weak in their view because we are afraid to kill civilians. They think we are weak because it's so easy to penetrate our borders. They think we are weak because they can hijack our planes with BOXCUTTERS! 
And as things stand, they are right. 
-------signature-------
"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:26 am |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | We are weak in their view because we are afraid to kill civilians. They think we are weak because it's so easy to penetrate our borders. They think we are weak because they can hijack our planes with BOXCUTTERS!
And as things stand, they are right. |
In some ways, yes. But in most ways, we are STRONG. We have the strongest and most powerful military in the world, not to mention the best
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:27 am |
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True, but that didn't stop 9/11. And it's not stopping the bombings in Iraq.
-------signature-------
"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:28 am |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | True, but that didn't stop 9/11. And it's not stopping the bombings in Iraq. |
But it doesn't mean that we're WEAK Just that we have flaws, and that the enemy is gritty, ruthless, and has no care for the rules of war
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:34 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | webtaz99 wrote: | | True, but that didn't stop 9/11. And it's not stopping the bombings in Iraq. |
But it doesn't mean that we're WEAK Just that we have flaws, and that the enemy is gritty, ruthless, and has no care for the rules of war |
It is weakness that allowed those planes to be hijacked.
It is weakness when AREN'T "torturing" our prisoners (torture is for amateurs, but we don't have a proper word for professional coersion).
It is weakness when we aren't willing to "stoop to their level".
And there are no "rules of war". Ask anybody who's been in one.
-------signature-------
"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:40 am |
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Your planes got hijacked because there was no enough security taking guns off passengers.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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Posts: 14823
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:41 am |
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| madlilnerd wrote: | | Your planes got hijacked because there was no enough security taking guns off passengers. |
I don't believed that they used guns...
And now when we protect ourselves with better security, people complain about it being TOO MUCH! No, it's not.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:47 am |
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I think the security precautions America is taking now are very sensible! I don't really care if they tortured people in prisons or not because they are IN PRISON and therefore deserve some kind of punishment any way.
I don't understand why Saddam is still alive. Why bother giving him a trial when everyone knows that he has done awful things? Kill him, slowly and painfully... I recommend dunking his head in diluted acid (but not too dilute) so that his face wears away and his lungs burn up and he drowns very slowly.
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:52 pm |
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| Starbuck wrote: | Have you ever been to Auschwits, Dirk?
and Deb, I'm not so sure of that. |
Yeeeeees, twice, very horrifying. Been to other camps too. No fun going there, but much better than seeing a documentary or reading a book.
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:06 pm |
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/\ my brother told me that when he did magic mushrooms he thought he was dancing on the graves of Auschwitz.
I've never been there, but I have been to rather disturbing exhibitions about it and I've been to a war cemetary.
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:29 pm |
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| Dirt wrote: | | Starbuck wrote: | Have you ever been to Auschwits, Dirk?
and Deb, I'm not so sure of that. |
Yeeeeees, twice, very horrifying. Been to other camps too. No fun going there, but much better than seeing a documentary or reading a book. |
I really want to go. Do they let you go in the gas chambers and everything?
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