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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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 Thu May 19, 2005 1:03 am Revenge of the Republicans! |
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| Quote: | Politics creates a disturbance in the Force
By C�sar G. Soriano, USA TODAY
Since early screenings of Episode III: Revenge of the Sith began last month, film critics, commentators and Internet bloggers have been debating whether filmmaker George Lucas is comparing President Bush and the Iraq war to the Dark Side of the Force. The conservative film site Pabaah.com has called for a boycott. The topic even made NBC's Today show.
Bush beneath the mask? To many, Revenge of theSith seems to be touching on current events.
Lucas said Sunday at the Cannes Film Festival that the movie was written before the Iraq war. "We were just funding Saddam Hussein and giving him weapons of mass destruction," he said, adding, "The parallels between Vietnam and what we're doing in Iraq now are unbelievable."
Still, some see echoes of Bush in the film.
In one scene, Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader tells his onetime mentor, Obi-Wan Kenobi, "If you're not with me, you're my enemy." The line is seen as a reference to Bush's post-Sept. 11 threat "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."
The White House declined to comment on the controversy.
Josh Griffin, a self-described "conservative Star Wars fan," says he cringed when he heard the dialogue at a recent advance screening of Sith. "Star Wars is meant to be a children's movie ... not to be a political statement about someone's liberal ideology."
Even a perception of bias could hurt a film's bottom line, some say. The crucial summer moviegoing season usually makes up 40% of a year's box office revenue; this year, ticket sales are down 7% from 2004.
"If people feel Lucas is pushing a parallel between the Galactic Empire and present-day America, I think people will be turned off," says filmmaker Jason Apuzzo, co-editor of the conservative film blog Libertas (libertyfilmfestival.com/libertas).
But others applaud Lucas for taking a stand.
"As a liberal and a Democrat, it was comforting," says Slant magazine film critic Ed Gonzalez. "Star Wars is created by real people, starring real people, so it's inevitable it will reflect real-life issues," even if it is sci-fi fantasy.
Freelance writer Craig Winneker, who accused Sith of bias on the webzine Tech Central Station, says he nonetheless loved the film. "I'm not going to hold a grudge against the movie or base my opinion on world events because of something Yoda says."
Political spoilers
People who have seen early screenings of Star Wars, Episode III: Revenge of the Sith are noting parallels to the Bush administration:
� Sith plot: Seeking to strengthen security during wartime, Chancellor Palpatine persuades the Senate to give up civil liberties and elect him emperor for life. "So this is how liberty dies � to thunderous applause," Senator Amidala laments.
� Bush plot: Seeking to strengthen security after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, President Bush urged legislators to pass the Patriot Act, which opponents say infringes on civil liberties.
� Sith's war: Palpatine starts a war to divert attention from his true political motives.
� Bush's war: Bush persuades Congress to go to war with Iraq based on evidence that has now been largely dismissed. |
Source: http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2005-05-17-sith-politics_x.htm
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Thu May 19, 2005 1:11 am |
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I dont know, can't people belive in coincidences? I say thats what this is. Its just a movie. and that said even if it purposly has refernces, why its it "Conterversal"?
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu May 19, 2005 1:14 am |
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Its contreversial because it may or may not be a subtle attack on the President. I'm going to have to disagree with my Conservative buddies. This is just a movie. Although its no secret that Lucas is a Liberal. It is possible that it is an attack, but I really don't care. I love the Star Wars movies too much to get angry about this. The Liberals try and counter with "But this movie was written decades ago!" No it wasn't. The OT was written decades ago. Lucas writes each movie as he goes along. Although to be fair, he did have this intention a long time ago. Palpatine must become Emperor somehow. I can see why the Conservatives are mad, but I sure as hell will do nothing to stop this movie.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Thu May 19, 2005 1:16 am |
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well said founder, well said.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu May 19, 2005 1:27 am |
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| Lord Borg wrote: | | well said founder, well said. |
Thanks. Although I blame both political parties for this. Conservatives are looking for something that isn't there and Liberals are just trying to stir up s**t as usual.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Thu May 19, 2005 7:32 am |
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Indeed. This is just immature. Firstly, there should be no reason to ban or boycott a movie just because it has a political subtext. Even if Lucas were aiming for a direct parallel about the Iraq war, let him do so, that's his choice.
The idea never really occurred to me until someone brought it up. I thought that the Star Wars saga was simply (well, complexly) an excellently thought-out and coordinated story that rivals Dune in its scope and conveys a clear understanding of the monomyth process. From a literary point of view, the theme of Star Wars is not new, but because it is done so wonderfully is the reason that it deserves such fame.
Any movie/television show, particularly science fiction, that has political intrigue, will inevitably have parallels with the time in which it was written. That's the point of media--I don't want mindless entertainment, I want an entertaining story that has a message underneath, one that I can interpret to suit me yet have change me as well. Even taking a look at the present-day dramas like The West Wing and there are obvious parallels, but we don't need to boycott those either.
Just sit back and watch the movie, eh.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu May 19, 2005 9:45 am |
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| Founder wrote: | | Its contreversial because it may or may not be a subtle attack on the President. I'm going to have to disagree with my Conservative buddies. This is just a movie. Although its no secret that Lucas is a Liberal. It is possible that it is an attack, but I really don't care. I love the Star Wars movies too much to get angry about this. The Liberals try and counter with "But this movie was written decades ago!" No it wasn't. The OT was written decades ago. Lucas writes each movie as he goes along. Although to be fair, he did have this intention a long time ago. Palpatine must become Emperor somehow. I can see why the Conservatives are mad, but I sure as hell will do nothing to stop this movie. |
I agree. And you are right on all points, and well said.
There was only one subtle attack on the President and Republicans that I saw, and it was
| Spoiler wrote: | | When Anakin says, "If you're not with me, you're my enemy," and then Obi-Wan replies that such narrow-mindedness (or something like that) is the "way of the Sith." The President essentially said this, |
and so I saw this attack. However, I saw NOTHING ELSE!
All I saw was really parallels with Hitler and Napoleon Bonaparte--I'm going to type a full report on that soon.
No, I have to disagree with these RADICAL Republicans on this. They are WRONG, and so is to boycott the film. Tach, you're right in saying that these Conservatives are being immature, etc.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Captain Dappet
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Joined: 06 Feb 2002
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Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Thu May 19, 2005 11:00 am |
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Rediculous. Just rediculous. Besides, I couldn't give a rat's ass if there was a political message in ROTS. To me, it's just Star Wars. It's a movie - entertainment. If you analyze enough you can find political, anti-Bush messages in anything. It's rediculous.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
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| Thu May 19, 2005 1:11 pm |
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| Captain Dappet wrote: | | Rediculous. Just rediculous. Besides, I couldn't give a rat's ass if there was a political message in ROTS. To me, it's just Star Wars. It's a movie - entertainment. If you analyze enough you can find political, anti-Bush messages in anything. It's rediculous. |
I agree, but there WAS one obvious attack, which I believe I stated in my spoiler quote.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Thu May 19, 2005 1:38 pm |
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It's no obvious attack. It could be coinscidence. It's not such a unique thing to say.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu May 19, 2005 1:41 pm |
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I don't know if that was an obvious attack though. To tell you teh truth, I didn't even make that connection until this article mentioned it.
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Thu May 19, 2005 1:53 pm |
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 Always have to think everything is an attack!
Geeze, It's a movie... and if they are attacking... who cares?
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Thu May 19, 2005 2:19 pm |
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I can't comment on the spoiler bit, as I'm not looking at it, 
I don't particularly care if it's a good film. A lot of the best films have something the director/writer is tying to say, so I don't mind.
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Thu May 19, 2005 6:20 pm |
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I doooooooooon't think it says anything other than Wars, but I'm no yankee I suppose. 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu May 19, 2005 8:55 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | I don't know if that was an obvious attack though. To tell you teh truth, I didn't even make that connection until this article mentioned it. |
This didn't make me consider it 
"If you're not with me, then you are my enemy." - Darth Vader
"Only Sith deal in absolutes." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
Yes, attack. But the ONLY one, from what I've seen.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 pm |
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Why can't those be just lines in the movie RM?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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Location: Classified
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| Thu May 19, 2005 11:08 pm |
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| Dirt wrote: | | Why can't those be just lines in the movie RM? |
Well, because of who he is. He's a far-left Michael Moore kind-of guy, and the statement, "If you're not with me then you're against me/my enemy," responded with "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..." that sounds like an attack to me. Feel free to disagree.
Otherwise, nothing else.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri May 20, 2005 4:07 am |
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Does this disturb anyone else? I don't mean this particular artical, but the fact that politics have become so entrenched in everyday life that now everything has a subtle meaning towards it? I never dreamed of the idea that SW was political.
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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| Fri May 20, 2005 5:43 am |
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Pffft. Everything is political in some sense. Star Trek is political. To some extent the Bible is political. It doesn't surprise me, but I don't think it should be taken seriously. After all, if we boycotted everything that was political, then we wouldn't be able to do anything.
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Fri May 20, 2005 7:25 am |
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| Seven of Nine wrote: | | Pffft. Everything is political in some sense. Star Trek is political. To some extent the Bible is political. It doesn't surprise me, but I don't think it should be taken seriously. After all, if we boycotted everything that was political, then we wouldn't be able to do anything. |
If you study history carefully, you will find that the Bible is EXTREMELY political.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri May 20, 2005 10:13 am |
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| Seven of Nine wrote: | | Pffft. Everything is political in some sense. Star Trek is political. To some extent the Bible is political. It doesn't surprise me, but I don't think it should be taken seriously. After all, if we boycotted everything that was political, then we wouldn't be able to do anything. |
I know everything is political, but it was never this sought out.
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Fri May 20, 2005 3:53 pm |
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I think it's all a little far fetched, but show us your PROOF rm,
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Fri May 20, 2005 4:02 pm |
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I think some people are more sensitive than others with their political views.
And I like Michael Moore.... there should be more like him.
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Fri May 20, 2005 4:03 pm |
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There's enough overweight people out there already, it's unhealthy
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Fri May 20, 2005 4:40 pm |
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^so true! But america is pretty overweight anyway... what diff would it make?
and what I meant was people should speak their minds more.
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