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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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 Mon May 16, 2005 4:42 pm |
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Illegal immigration didn't cause it though. It is perhaps probable that the murder would not have occurred if these illegal immigrants were not there, but by no means impossible. You just can't know.
I'm still agree that it is indeed a terrible crime, and illegal immigration is still an issue. 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 16, 2005 4:47 pm |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | Illegal immigration didn't cause it though. It is perhaps probable that the murder would not have occurred if these illegal immigrants were not there, but by no means impossible. You just can't know.
I'm still agree that it is indeed a terrible crime, and illegal immigration is still an issue. |
WHAT? That makes NO SENSE. These two murders would NOT have occurred had they not come through illegally. Are you denying this? I can't believe you are!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Mon May 16, 2005 4:49 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | WHAT? That makes NO SENSE. These two murders would NOT have occurred had they not come through illegally. Are you denying this? I can't believe you are! |
Well, that is just an assumption unless one is actually privy to the knowledge of an alternate timeline wherein such illegal immigrants were not present.
(I've been facetious enough now . . . my point has been made, and I'm just dragging my heels through the mud here.)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 16, 2005 4:52 pm |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | WHAT? That makes NO SENSE. These two murders would NOT have occurred had they not come through illegally. Are you denying this? I can't believe you are! |
Well, that is just an assumption unless one is actually privy to the knowledge of an alternate timeline wherein such illegal immigrants were not present.
(I've been facetious enough now . . . my point has been made, and I'm just dragging my heels through the mud here.) |
Like hell you are! Maybe they would have been murdered by OTHERS under DIFFERENT circumstances, but THIS murder would not have happened had these IDIOTS not come through our borders, and a 6 and an 8 year old would NOT be without a mom right now!
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Mon May 16, 2005 5:11 pm |
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Idiots=human beings, they probably have kids and a family too that they want to feed RM. Suppose those don't matter, no?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 16, 2005 5:12 pm |
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| Dirt wrote: | | Idiots=human beings, they probably have kids and a family too that they want to feed RM. Suppose those don't matter, no? |
No, it doesn't, because they MURDERED PEOPLE! I'm not talking your average illegal immigrant is an idiot--because they're not. But these people ARE.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Mon May 16, 2005 5:14 pm |
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But your reasoning, it's kind of silly. You're judging your whole border policy on a few criminals.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 16, 2005 5:17 pm |
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| Dirt wrote: | | But your reasoning, it's kind of silly. You're judging your whole border policy on a few criminals. |
No, I'm not, but can I not? Should I not? If this can happen, then that shows that SOMETHING MUST BE DONE.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Mon May 16, 2005 5:19 pm |
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I don't think you can't judge the mass on a few, we're all individuals anyway. But I see your point, the thing is however had these people gotten a green card they would have been just as likely to commit a murder.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 16, 2005 5:20 pm |
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| Dirt wrote: | | I don't think you can't judge the mass on a few, we're all individuals anyway. But I see your point, the thing is however had these people gotten a green card they would have been just as likely to commit a murder. |
Yes, but they didn't. They came here ILLEGALLY. Showing that we need to FIX our border policies.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Mon May 16, 2005 5:22 pm |
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I look upon that as something seperate from murder. Wouldn't it just have been as bad if this all had taken place in Mexico? Unfortunatly you can't screen on wheter someone is gonna commit a crime or not.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 16, 2005 5:24 pm |
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| Dirt wrote: | | I look upon that as something seperate from murder. Wouldn't it just have been as bad if this all had taken place in Mexico? Unfortunatly you can't screen on wheter someone is gonna commit a crime or not. |
HOW can you look at it as separate from the murders? They came here ILLEGALLY. If they didn't come here illegally, they wouldn't have done the murders. What's so hard to understand? How can you say that it at least didn't play a role in the murder?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Mon May 16, 2005 5:30 pm |
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Because they would have been able to commit the murder someplace else too. I can't argue with you that if these people had not been there this wouldn't have taken place. But maybe it would have happened in another country. That's why. Feel free to disagree. 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 16, 2005 5:33 pm |
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| Dirt wrote: | | Because they would have been able to commit the murder someplace else too. I can't argue with you that if these people had not been there this wouldn't have taken place. But maybe it would have happened in another country. That's why. Feel free to disagree. |
Sure it could always have happened in another country, but if they hadn't come in, then it wouldn't have happened her! America needs to be secure, and with Bush's failing immigration policies, I don't feel as secure as I did two months ago.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Mon May 16, 2005 5:36 pm |
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I really don't think that two murders make all that much of a difference in how secure you are. There's always going to be maniacs out there capable of killing people. It could have been someone from any nationality or situation that did that.
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Mon May 16, 2005 5:40 pm |
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Yeah it is sad. But this kind of thing happens multiple times every day. It does not matter if they are here legaly or not.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 16, 2005 5:42 pm |
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| zero wrote: | | Yeah it is sad. But this kind of thing happens multiple times every day. It does not matter if they are here legaly or not. |
Yes it DOES! If we had a solid policy, many of these murders and 1/3 of our prisons would NOT take place/be filled with illegals! Your ideologies in this circumstance are just CRAZY, trying to rationalize that it's no big deal that the MURDERERS were here ILLEGALLY, but it IS!
I know that you both don't give a damn about the border security of the United States, but could at LEAST put some rational beliefs in there for the border situation? 
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Mon May 16, 2005 5:43 pm |
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I suppose I don't like to differentiate between people like that and discriminate.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 16, 2005 5:44 pm |
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| Dirt wrote: | | I suppose I don't like to differentiate between people like that and discriminate. |
WHAT? Oh, well THAT'S a good reason for your beliefs! Anyways, I don't want to continue attacking you two personally, so just know that...you're BOTH WRONG!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Mon May 16, 2005 5:45 pm |
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Suuuuure, and you're right you stubborn buttnugget, <= Yes, really a joke
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Mon May 16, 2005 6:53 pm |
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So RM, if you were in a country where you were tortured and so on and you had the chance to escape to another country but when you got there you weren't allowed in, what would you do? Go back? Or stay?
Also if people are so concerned about the amount of money being used on the illegal immigrants then we should also think about the worlds trade system. Basically rich countries buy raw materials and process it, as the raw materials are so much cheaper than the final product. This is exported, and lots of money made. So what would be a way round it? Oh, the 3rd world countries decide to process the materials themselves. Good idea, get more money. One problem - they get charged extra taxes so that their goods are more expensive than the goods made in the rich country. Thus people don't buy them. So if we complain about the money used on illegals we shoud also complain about this system, which results in many of them being poor and moving country looking for a better wage.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 16, 2005 8:09 pm |
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| Jeremy wrote: | So RM, if you were in a country where you were tortured and so on and you had the chance to escape to another country but when you got there you weren't allowed in, what would you do? Go back? Or stay?
Stay. But people from those countries are considered REGUGEES, NOT illegals
Also if people are so concerned about the amount of money being used on the illegal immigrants then we should also think about the worlds trade system. Basically rich countries buy raw materials and process it, as the raw materials are so much cheaper than the final product. This is exported, and lots of money made. So what would be a way round it? Oh, the 3rd world countries decide to process the materials themselves. Good idea, get more money. One problem - they get charged extra taxes so that their goods are more expensive than the goods made in the rich country. Thus people don't buy them. So if we complain about the money used on illegals we shoud also complain about this system, which results in many of them being poor and moving country looking for a better wage. |
Their governments should do what they can to improve their economy. It's not America's job to do so
And btw, one of the most important things that we have to do is DISPOSE OF THE SANCTUARY CITY POLICY in cities like Boulder, Denver, and LA. If Denver didn't have that policy, as well, the murder of the police officer would not have happened. So there are two parts to it--all dealing with illegal immigration.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Mon May 16, 2005 8:34 pm |
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| Jeremy wrote: | So RM, if you were in a country where you were tortured and so on and you had the chance to escape to another country but when you got there you weren't allowed in, what would you do? Go back? Or stay?
Also if people are so concerned about the amount of money being used on the illegal immigrants then we should also think about the worlds trade system. Basically rich countries buy raw materials and process it, as the raw materials are so much cheaper than the final product. This is exported, and lots of money made. So what would be a way round it? Oh, the 3rd world countries decide to process the materials themselves. Good idea, get more money. One problem - they get charged extra taxes so that their goods are more expensive than the goods made in the rich country. Thus people don't buy them. So if we complain about the money used on illegals we shoud also complain about this system, which results in many of them being poor and moving country looking for a better wage. |
But: The fat cats that profit from the exploitation of the "3rd world" countries are the same fat cats that employ illegals. And the people who want secure borders are not the fat cats. AND it doesn't matter why someone wants to come here, doing it illegally is ILLEGAL.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 16, 2005 8:39 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | Jeremy wrote: | So RM, if you were in a country where you were tortured and so on and you had the chance to escape to another country but when you got there you weren't allowed in, what would you do? Go back? Or stay?
Also if people are so concerned about the amount of money being used on the illegal immigrants then we should also think about the worlds trade system. Basically rich countries buy raw materials and process it, as the raw materials are so much cheaper than the final product. This is exported, and lots of money made. So what would be a way round it? Oh, the 3rd world countries decide to process the materials themselves. Good idea, get more money. One problem - they get charged extra taxes so that their goods are more expensive than the goods made in the rich country. Thus people don't buy them. So if we complain about the money used on illegals we shoud also complain about this system, which results in many of them being poor and moving country looking for a better wage. |
But: The fat cats that profit from the exploitation of the "3rd world" countries are the same fat cats that employ illegals. And the people who want secure borders are not the fat cats. AND it doesn't matter why someone wants to come here, doing it illegally is ILLEGAL. |
Taz, I just don't think that they can comprehend the word illegal. Could you please enlighten them with the definition, hmm? Oh, and the definition of a federal crime.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon May 16, 2005 10:24 pm |
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We understand its illegal, but what you TWO have to understand is that these are people.
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