| Do you agree with O'Reilly or the School? |
| O'Reilly |
|
58% |
[ 7 ] |
| Middle/Undecided (Elaborate) |
|
16% |
[ 2 ] |
| The School |
|
25% |
[ 3 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 12 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
 Mon May 16, 2005 4:55 pm |
|
| Exalya wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | zero wrote: | No, "we" shouldn't do anything. They are free to live however they want. To resitrict them from anything is to deny thier freedoms.
I wish you would listen to how you sound somethins... |
And I wish you would do the same as well 
They are free to live however they want, but we should look out for the kids, and healthy lifestyles for them. |
I'm afraid I can't say precisely how flawed that is...looking out for the children is good, but coming into a family who allows them to eat improperly and become obese is probably even more unhealthy. You can't keep children from seeing things, and learning things, and being exposed to other lifestyles. You can't stop it even--and probably especially--in straight families.
I'm repeating myself, so I will not reply unless there is some new ingenious perspective brought to light. |
But does that mean that we can't try to STOP kids at a young age from being taught this in schools, hmm? And improperly eating and becoming obese to becoming unhealthy is different. As long as they go to the doctors, I'm not too upset about that. But I'm talking a healthy, balanced, MENATL lifestyle here.
But this part of the debate really just goes down to personal beliefs, so let's get the HELL off of this damned topic and slide back to the proper topic--the storybooks.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
|
| Mon May 16, 2005 5:00 pm |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: | | Exalya wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | zero wrote: | No, "we" shouldn't do anything. They are free to live however they want. To resitrict them from anything is to deny thier freedoms.
I wish you would listen to how you sound somethins... |
And I wish you would do the same as well
They are free to live however they want, but we should look out for the kids, and healthy lifestyles for them. |
I'm afraid I can't say precisely how flawed that is...looking out for the children is good, but coming into a family who allows them to eat improperly and become obese is probably even more unhealthy. You can't keep children from seeing things, and learning things, and being exposed to other lifestyles. You can't stop it even--and probably especially--in straight families.
I'm repeating myself, so I will not reply unless there is some new ingenious perspective brought to light. |
But does that mean that we can't try to STOP kids at a young age from being taught this in schools, hmm? And improperly eating and becoming obese to becoming unhealthy is different. As long as they go to the doctors, I'm not too upset about that. But I'm talking a healthy, balanced, MENATL lifestyle here.
But this part of the debate really just goes down to personal beliefs, so let's get the HELL off of this damned topic and slide back to the proper topic--the storybooks. |
For the record, I see the school thing as entirely different, and agree with you on it.
|
|
|
voy416
Captain
Joined: 28 Oct 2001
Posts: 631
Location: Rock Bottom
|
| Tue May 17, 2005 1:48 pm |
|
First off kids should not know about gay's or sex at the age of six.
Kids will find out about sooner are later but do not force it on them. I myself am gay but I would never tell my 8 and 6 year old nieces that. if they asked I will tell them as best as I can.
And another thing people should stop with the BALANCED household thing
It is really getting old. There is no sure thing that if a child has a mom and a dad they will grow up to be good and stuff like that.
It is all about the parent like if you do not like gay's it is mostly a fact your kid will grow up the same way.
the human race still has much to learn. gay's are people we cry, we bleed, we have jobs and live like everybody else. the only thing is we sleep with the same sex, we may dress different from what the world wants but because of close-minded people
This world is doomed
-------signature-------
To Be Are Not To Be......Is That Really The
Question
|
|
|
zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
|
| Tue May 17, 2005 4:36 pm |
|
I just don't think the children should be taught being gay is wrong or right. I don't care if they are Informed about it, But they should be able to think for themselves. I know a lot of parents tell them being gay is "evil" lol or for the "devil"  (sorry that makes me laugh).
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Tue May 17, 2005 6:14 pm |
|
| zero wrote: | | I just don't think the children should be taught being gay is wrong or right. I don't care if they are Informed about it, But they should be able to think for themselves. I know a lot of parents tell them being gay is "evil" lol or for the "devil" (sorry that makes me laugh). |
So now you think that they shouldn't be taught religious beliefs, or that their parents should not teach them the values that they want them to have? GOOOOD thinking (sarcasm)
And I think balanced households is NOT something to stop. It doesn't quite MATTER how good the gay or lesbian parents are--just that it's not BALANCED.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
|
| Tue May 17, 2005 6:23 pm |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: | | And I think balanced households is NOT something to stop. It doesn't quite MATTER how good the gay or lesbian parents are--just that it's not BALANCED. |
Why does it matter so much if they're balanced? It really doesn't make an outcome on the way children grow up, except they don't have the same fear towards gays that most other people do.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Tue May 17, 2005 6:24 pm |
|
| Starbuck wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | And I think balanced households is NOT something to stop. It doesn't quite MATTER how good the gay or lesbian parents are--just that it's not BALANCED. |
Why does it matter so much if they're balanced? It really doesn't make an outcome on the way children grow up, except they don't have the same fear towards gays that most other people do. |
It's simply how it needs to be. A child should have a mom and a dad, not two moms and two dads. But that REALLY goes down to core beliefs, so I'd advise that we back away from this debate, and continue on with the other aspects of these arguments 
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
|
| Wed May 18, 2005 1:46 am |
|
What about single parent families? They don't always occur through divorce- a parent could die. Should children be allowed to know about them?
I want Sammie to believe personal choice is one of the rights everyone should have, and unless it harms someone else then it shouldn't be restricted. If I taught her gays were evil, it could make her homophobic (I wouldn't anyway, because I think it's normal and people should just learn to accept it). What children are taught goes a long way to what they believe when they're older. How many of you who are Christians have parents that are also Christians? I wouldn't care if when Sammie was older she wanted to be Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, or any other religion, but it's unlikely, because she's going to be brought up in a Christianity-based household.
As for children being taught about gays and other minority groups, I feel that it shouldn't be something forced in their face, especially at the age of 6. Wait until they're interested, and then give them age-appropiate information. I also believe you shouldn't force religion on a child, but understand other people feel differently.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Wed May 18, 2005 5:14 pm |
|
| Seven of Nine wrote: | What about single parent families? They don't always occur through divorce- a parent could die. Should children be allowed to know about them?
I want Sammie to believe personal choice is one of the rights everyone should have, and unless it harms someone else then it shouldn't be restricted. If I taught her gays were evil, it could make her homophobic (I wouldn't anyway, because I think it's normal and people should just learn to accept it). What children are taught goes a long way to what they believe when they're older. How many of you who are Christians have parents that are also Christians? I wouldn't care if when Sammie was older she wanted to be Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, or any other religion, but it's unlikely, because she's going to be brought up in a Christianity-based household.
As for children being taught about gays and other minority groups, I feel that it shouldn't be something forced in their face, especially at the age of 6. Wait until they're interested, and then give them age-appropiate information. I also believe you shouldn't force religion on a child, but understand other people feel differently. |
Parents are NOT (most, anyway) teaching kids that GAYS are evil, just that they are misguided and what they are doing is wrong. Allow the parents to do that.
And I said in the beginning of this portion of the discussion: single parents are different, because there's not two moms or two dads. It's just different.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
|
| Sun May 22, 2005 8:29 am |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: | | You DON'T teach little kids about homosexuality. Wait until they're 11 or 12--maybe 10 if you have to. Let them have a CHILDHOOD. It's not good to teach them things like this at such a young age. |
Why not? You think it's against their nature or something? I have an uncle who is gay, and I've known it all my life. I'm not a criminal or something, it didn't ruin my life.
And by the way, homosexuality is a part of nature. It's been seen at over 400 kinds of animals.
-------signature-------
Nosce te ipsum
|
|
|
Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
|
| Sun May 22, 2005 8:34 am |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: | | And I think balanced households is NOT something to stop. It doesn't quite MATTER how good the gay or lesbian parents are--just that it's not BALANCED. |
Balance has nothing to do with it. Here in Holland there are a LOT of gay couples who have (adopted) or their own children through IVF, and it works out fine. They are not screwed up. If the parents just raise them as any other kid, there's not a problem. Come around to see for yourself!
-------signature-------
Nosce te ipsum
|
|
|
Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
|
| Sun May 22, 2005 8:35 am |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: |
Parents are NOT (most, anyway) teaching kids that GAYS are evil, just that they are misguided and what they are doing is wrong. Allow the parents to do that. |
So you should teach children to discriminate? That's the core belief here. 
Last edited by Birdy on Sun May 22, 2005 8:38 am; edited 1 time in total
-------signature-------
Nosce te ipsum
|
|
|
madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
|
| Sun May 22, 2005 8:36 am |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: | | Seven of Nine wrote: | What about single parent families? They don't always occur through divorce- a parent could die. Should children be allowed to know about them?
I want Sammie to believe personal choice is one of the rights everyone should have, and unless it harms someone else then it shouldn't be restricted. If I taught her gays were evil, it could make her homophobic (I wouldn't anyway, because I think it's normal and people should just learn to accept it). What children are taught goes a long way to what they believe when they're older. How many of you who are Christians have parents that are also Christians? I wouldn't care if when Sammie was older she wanted to be Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, or any other religion, but it's unlikely, because she's going to be brought up in a Christianity-based household.
As for children being taught about gays and other minority groups, I feel that it shouldn't be something forced in their face, especially at the age of 6. Wait until they're interested, and then give them age-appropiate information. I also believe you shouldn't force religion on a child, but understand other people feel differently. |
Parents are NOT (most, anyway) teaching kids that GAYS are evil, just that they are misguided and what they are doing is wrong. Allow the parents to do that.
And I said in the beginning of this portion of the discussion: single parents are different, because there's not two moms or two dads. It's just different. |
I think you are misguided and wrong a lot of the time.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Sun May 22, 2005 9:39 am |
|
| Birdy wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
Parents are NOT (most, anyway) teaching kids that GAYS are evil, just that they are misguided and what they are doing is wrong. Allow the parents to do that. |
So you should teach children to discriminate? That's the core belief here. |
No. Parents should be allowed to tell their children that being gay is wrong--while at the same time allow them to know that gays aren't evil, though, and that they're just regular people, but that what they're doing is wrong. Let the parents teach them what they want to teach them here, and not the schools. Although I DO think that the parents should wait until they're old enough, but it's more their discretion, because they're the parents.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
|
| Sun May 22, 2005 9:41 am |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: | | No. Parents should be allowed to tell their children that being gay is wrong--while at the same time allow them to know that gays aren't evil, though, and that they're just regular people, but that what they're doing is wrong. Let the parents teach them what they want to teach them here, and not the schools. Although I DO think that the parents should wait until they're old enough, but it's more their discretion, because they're the parents. |
True. Parents have that choice, I agree with you on that. I just don't agree with those parents, I can't understand you would want to teach you children that. Why not let them find out for themselves if it's right or wrong?
-------signature-------
Nosce te ipsum
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Sun May 22, 2005 9:45 am |
|
| Birdy wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | No. Parents should be allowed to tell their children that being gay is wrong--while at the same time allow them to know that gays aren't evil, though, and that they're just regular people, but that what they're doing is wrong. Let the parents teach them what they want to teach them here, and not the schools. Although I DO think that the parents should wait until they're old enough, but it's more their discretion, because they're the parents. |
True. Parents have that choice, I agree with you on that. I just don't agree with those parents, I can't understand you would want to teach you children that. Why not let them find out for themselves if it's right or wrong? |
Because it's an issue of MORALITY. And it's their discretion to believe in the traditional belief that being gay is immoral. And most parents clearly teach their kids this--and then some are just wrong saying that gays are bad people.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
|
| Sun May 22, 2005 9:46 am |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: |
Because it's an issue of MORALITY. And it's their discretion to believe in the traditional belief that being gay is immoral. And most parents clearly teach their kids this--and then some are just wrong saying that gays are bad people. |
I KNOW, I said I AGREED with you, right?
I know. 
-------signature-------
Nosce te ipsum
|
|
|
Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
|
| Sun May 22, 2005 9:47 am |
|
Most people feel that it is a parents job to build a child with good morals, which is why it is the parents responsibility to let there kids know what is "right or wrong", and enforce that throughout their childhood. Now, whether this is a matter of morals, is another thing. The only thing that really worries me with this is that parents are going to teach their kid that being gay is wrong, and then their kid turns out to be gay. In that case, the parents created a home environment in which the child feels rejected, and alienated by their own parents.
|
|
|
madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
|
| Sun May 22, 2005 10:07 am |
|
/\ which is why you shouldn't say being gay is wrong or immoral. It's not someone's fault if they're gay.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Sun May 22, 2005 4:34 pm |
|
| madlilnerd wrote: | | /\ which is why you shouldn't say being gay is wrong or immoral. It's not someone's fault if they're gay. |
No, that does NOT mean that you shouldn't say that being gay is wrong and immoral. If your child turns out to be gay, you basically tell them that you love them, and support them. That what they're doing is wrong, but that it doesn't make them a bad person. And that fault is up for debate.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
voy416
Captain
Joined: 28 Oct 2001
Posts: 631
Location: Rock Bottom
|
| Wed May 25, 2005 9:21 pm |
|
You should never tell a child being gay is wrong because it is not wrong. It is how people are and people should really just get over the fact that there are gay people. gay's have been around for years. They were in history although people do not like to say they were. there is NO perfect parent teach your kids the best you can.
my view as i has said is i am gay but before you judge me, judge yourself
-------signature-------
To Be Are Not To Be......Is That Really The
Question
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Wed May 25, 2005 10:50 pm |
|
| voy416 wrote: | You should never tell a child being gay is wrong because it is not wrong. It is how people are and people should really just get over the fact that there are gay people. gay's have been around for years. They were in history although people do not like to say they were. there is NO perfect parent teach your kids the best you can.
my view as i has said is i am gay but before you judge me, judge yourself |
Maybe we aren't judging the PEOPLE, just the ACTION. The concept of one being gay goes straight down to moral beliefs, and if the parents deem it immoral, then they should be allowed to tell that to their children, as it is THEIR job to tell their children what is right and wrong.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
|
| Thu May 26, 2005 9:29 am |
|
they should not learn about homosexuality at age 6. i say teach it during the sex ed unit.
-------signature-------
At Least In Vietnam, Bush Had An Exit Strategy
It was Bush, not Clinton, who ignored the warning signs for 9/11.
|
|
|
webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
|
| Thu May 26, 2005 11:59 am |
|
| Birdy wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | You DON'T teach little kids about homosexuality. Wait until they're 11 or 12--maybe 10 if you have to. Let them have a CHILDHOOD. It's not good to teach them things like this at such a young age. |
Why not? You think it's against their nature or something? I have an uncle who is gay, and I've known it all my life. I'm not a criminal or something, it didn't ruin my life.
And by the way, homosexuality is a part of nature. It's been seen at over 400 kinds of animals. |
I've seen a two-headed turtle, snake, frog, and lizard. I've seen children with flippers for arms, and I've seen conjoined twins. They are all "part of nature", but are sill aberations - deviations from what they were supposed to be.
-------signature-------
"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
|
|
|
madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
|
| Thu May 26, 2005 12:09 pm |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: | | voy416 wrote: | You should never tell a child being gay is wrong because it is not wrong. It is how people are and people should really just get over the fact that there are gay people. gay's have been around for years. They were in history although people do not like to say they were. there is NO perfect parent teach your kids the best you can.
my view as i has said is i am gay but before you judge me, judge yourself |
Maybe we aren't judging the PEOPLE, just the ACTION. The concept of one being gay goes straight down to moral beliefs, and if the parents deem it immoral, then they should be allowed to tell that to their children, as it is THEIR job to tell their children what is right and wrong. |
Being gay is not an action. Sex between two men or two women is an action and is considered wrong by many people.
Six year olds are taught about stereotypical families with a Mummy and a Daddy, but so many families nowadays are divorced or single parents that I think children should be taught about a wide range of different families to give them a wider understanding of the REAL WORLD.
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Star Trek �, in all its various forms, are trademarks & copyrights of Paramount Pictures
This site has no official connection with Star Trek or Paramount Pictures
Site content/Site design elements owned by Morphy and is meant to only be an archive/Tribute to STV.com
|
Search
FAQ
Log in
