Friendly Star Trek Discussions Tue Nov 26, 2024 2:06 am  
  SearchSearch   FAQFAQ   Log inLog in   
Holodecks
View: previous topic :: next topic

stv-archives.com Forum Index -> Star Trek Tech This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.   This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.
Author Message
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative


Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified

PostSun Feb 27, 2005 8:05 pm    Holodecks

All about Holodecks.
How do they work?
How would one create a program?
What does everyone think?



-------signature-------

"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews

View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
Reply with quote Back to top
Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostSun Feb 27, 2005 8:19 pm    

Holodeck 101 . . . is not available. Actually, from what I've noticed the holodeck is self-contradictory depending on which episodes you watch.

The basic premise is this: the computer generates three-dimensional images as per one's specifications. It makes them seem solid by containing the photons in a force field. Special units along the holodeck wall emit sound and scents in order to give you a sense of realism.

It appears that some holodeck matter is not holographic at all, but in fact actually replicated. And also some matter is independent of the environment--for example, if a person orders the computer to "Freeze program," elements such as fire and smoke will not freeze (probably because the FX people don't want to go to the expense of stopping their motion).

When one moves inside a holodeck, the entire environment is adjusted so that one has the illusion of moving while remaining stationary. In this way, you never actually reach boundaries of the holodeck.

That's just from what I think, see the Daystrom Institute's take on things:
http://ditl.org/index.htm?daybody=/datscitech.php?6


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger 
Reply with quote Back to top
lionhead
Rear Admiral


Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)

PostMon Feb 28, 2005 6:51 am    

Hitchhiker wrote:


When one moves inside a holodeck, the entire environment is adjusted so that one has the illusion of moving while remaining stationary. In this way, you never actually reach boundaries of the holodeck.


yeah, i never understood that part. If you move you move. The holodeck must be inside your brain too make you think you are walking or else you do notice you don't actually walk. What if you would jump in the holodeck? Mentally you might think you actually wlak but physically you must noice you are not doing a bloody thing. Right?



-------signature-------

Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore

View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
webtaz99
Commodore


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side

PostMon Feb 28, 2005 8:50 am    

(I hate to defend the holodeck, because I think it's the biggest writer's crutch ever,but)

Imagine a force-field between each foot and the floor. As you walk, the force-fields move like a treadmill to let your legs move in a walking motion, but you actually stay still. Meanwhile the view of your environment changes perspective just as if you were moving.

OTOH, this breaks down if 2 or more people walk away from a central point. The holodeck would have to replace the images of the real people with images of them that look as if they are farther away. It would have to do the same thing about sounds (and for some folks, smell ).



-------signature-------

"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)

View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address  
Reply with quote Back to top
starnova
Commodore


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1544
Location: Commodore on the USS Farraget

PostMon Feb 28, 2005 10:27 pm    

but didn't in TNG where riker first meets Data in the holodeck he runs to a corner and toss a rock which hit one of the walls in the holodeck

View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostMon Feb 28, 2005 10:49 pm    

Data as an android can probably perceive the wall when humans cannot, due to his extra sensory abilities. Although that brings up the question of why in "Ship in a Bottle," Data could not tell that they were still trapped on the holodeck when Moriarty tricked them.

View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger 
Reply with quote Back to top
webtaz99
Commodore


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side

PostTue Mar 01, 2005 8:25 am    

I say it again, the biggest writer's crutch EVER.


-------signature-------

"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)

View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address  
Reply with quote Back to top
starnova
Commodore


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1544
Location: Commodore on the USS Farraget

PostSat Mar 05, 2005 2:04 am    

it may not make sense but would be cool to have

View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
Five - seveN
Rear Admiral


Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 3567
Location: Shadow Moon

PostSat Mar 05, 2005 8:01 am    

Veeeerryyyyy cool....

View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger 
Reply with quote Back to top
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative


Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified

PostSat Mar 05, 2005 7:26 pm    

Hitchhiker wrote:
Data as an android can probably perceive the wall when humans cannot, due to his extra sensory abilities. Although that brings up the question of why in "Ship in a Bottle," Data could not tell that they were still trapped on the holodeck when Moriarty tricked them.


Yeah, I was just thinking about that...Good explanation in the beginning, btw.
Now, I ask again: How could one CREATE a program in a Holodeck?



-------signature-------

"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews

View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
Reply with quote Back to top
Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostSat Mar 05, 2005 9:42 pm    

It'd be much like creating a website using one of those fancy WSYWIG editors that generate invalid code ::eye twitches::

Er . . . excuse that.

Well, we've seen various characters create something on the holodeck. Often it is a simple matter of requesting an object, and the computer creates a holographic fascimile. Of course, if one says "Chair," then that would probably leave the computer with a very wide variety of options. One could say, "A red, upholstered, Victorian era chair."

In later-era holodecks (later season TNG and even better, VOY) it would be even simpler, one could say, "Victorian-era drawing room," and the computer would render a setting, from there one could tweak individual aspects to one's desire.

After that, one would save the program like one saves a computer document, give it a name and remember where one puts it.

If one is an engineer, one could of course increase their control over the program, because one would know how a holodeck actually works. An engineer would be able to manually adjust a character's 'perceptual subroutines' or 'vocal subprocessor' when necessary, and then be faced with the consequences.


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger 
Reply with quote Back to top
starnova
Commodore


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1544
Location: Commodore on the USS Farraget

PostTue Mar 22, 2005 1:57 am    

but how would the computer knbow what you mean by old brown chair, it'll bring up about 500 types of old brown chairs

View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
luit14
Commodore


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 2232
Location: Come on in HEEERE! :P

PostFri Apr 01, 2005 8:37 pm    

but how would it work if 2 ppl were like a mile apart in the holodeck or something?

View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger 
Reply with quote Back to top
Captain Patrick
Commodore


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2421

PostFri Apr 01, 2005 8:46 pm    

Here every thing i know of holodecks

A Holodeck is a room, which is equipped with a Holo grid containing omnidirectional holographic diodes, enabling holographic projections.

It serves both entertainment and training purposes. It combines transporter technology with that of replicators, by generating holographic images in 3D space as well as projecting force fields to give the objects the illusion of substance.

Most modern Holodecks also include safety devices to prevent serious injury during their use, although these can be disengaged by the user if they have a high enough rank. If a forcefield would cause a certain level of physical harm to a living person that field collapses, allowing the person to escape uninjured.

During the 2360s and 2370s most modern Federation starships were equipped with at least one Holodeck.

Basically holodeck walls can generate holographic images that appear to extend for an unlimited distance. Holograms can also be projected into space. They can be augmented with force beams to simulate solid, tangible objects or with replicator technology to create actual solid matter such as foodstuffs.

Holodeck matter can impersonate real matter even at the molecular level. Molecule-sized magnetic bubbles replace molecules in full- resolution holo-objects. The computer can manipulate them individually in three dimensions. The computer may use large magnetic bubbles to simulate surfaces and textures rather than create an object at the molecular level.

Computers can not duplicate the complexity of electron shell activity and atomic motions that determine biochemical activity in living creatures. This prevents replicators from duplicating life and resurrecting the dead. Advances in computer technology may allow this, permitting a person to live for ever in any chosen environment while interacting with real people and objects visiting the holodeck.

All foods eaten on the holodeck are replications. No other type of simulation would survive outside of the holodeck.

The holodeck includes a forcefield treadmill. Approaching a wall causes an instant shift away. The holodeck can change gravity in three dimensions, so occupants don't notice the change.

The energy matrix of a Holodeck is incompatible with other ship systems.

Failure of a holodeck's matter conversion subsystem can cause the loss of solid objects within the holodeck environment. Materialization errors occurred in the Enterprise-D holodecks in 2370 following the ship's exposure to plasmonic energy in the atmosphere of planet Boraal II. (Homeward, TNG)


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
Reply with quote Back to top
Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostSat Apr 02, 2005 1:06 am    

Captain Patrick wrote:
Here every thing i know of holodecks

http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Holodeck


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger 
Reply with quote Back to top
Kylon
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 292
Location: In a distant galaxy far far away...

PostSat Apr 23, 2005 2:23 pm    

One major problem,

High, high doses of electromagnetic radiation of a tendency of causing cancer.

The only way I can see that holodecks MIGHT be able to avoid this would to have very low frequency electromagnetic fields.

The gravity part I think could be taken care of if you could control warp.

However due to the nature of gravity, any form of gravitational generator would/or should be used away from a planet or large body, because it would exert a force on EVERYTHING around it, unless the gravitational force was generated right next to the body, or if there was a capacity for focusing gravity, or a way to contain gravitational energy.



-------signature-------

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

Albert Einstein

View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
~Spirit~
Junior Cadet


Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 17

PostThu May 12, 2005 8:06 pm    

I've always wondered something, when you leave a Holodeck after you have just went swimming or something, can the water leave the room? Is your hair Wet when you leave or dry? How is it in season one of TNG that Wes Crusher left the holodeck and ran into Picard and made a "watery" mess outside of the holodeck?

View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostThu May 12, 2005 8:43 pm    

boob wrote:
I've always wondered something, when you leave a Holodeck after you have just went swimming or something, can the water leave the room? Is your hair Wet when you leave or dry? How is it in season one of TNG that Wes Crusher left the holodeck and ran into Picard and made a "watery" mess outside of the holodeck?

Parts of the holodeck environment are replicated matter and not holographic at all. Although your example does contradict the TNG statements that for the first few years, the holodecks were rudimentary and could not recreate complicated smells, scenes, personalities, etc.


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger 
Reply with quote Back to top
lionhead
Rear Admiral


Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)

PostFri May 13, 2005 6:15 am    

Then you start wondering when the Holodeck Replicates it and when he doesn't, if you determine that or the Holodeck.

Then also comes the question what the Safety procedures are for, if Bullets and such aren't replicated anyways. plus, would turning off safety procedures be that the Computer replicates the dangerous things instead of Holographically projecting(is that even a word?) them.

Since you aren't actually walking, you aren't actually falling eighter so that wouldn't be a danger now would it? Or does you mind make it real like in the Matrix? Or do safety procedures turn of the actual heights as well?



-------signature-------

Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore

View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostFri May 13, 2005 6:51 am    

The holodeck is one big trick on the mind's senses. You feel like you are falling because the holodeck uses a combination of cues to stimulate various senses so that it feels like you are falling, even when you aren't. In a sense, yes, this is like the Matrix, because your mind will experience the emotions and stress related to falling.

The safety protocols are designed to make sure that the holodeck does not simulate the fall too well. Just like in the real world, people can die from shock. Disengaging the safety protocols is probably like telling the computer to forget about any limitations to the human body or pysche.


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger 
Reply with quote Back to top
nadia
cookie


Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 8560
Location: Australia

PostFri May 13, 2005 7:00 am    

I wish I had a holo deck!



sorry that was realy random!


View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger 
Reply with quote Back to top
PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral


Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.

PostFri May 13, 2005 9:49 am    

Hitchhiker wrote:
The holodeck is one big trick on the mind's senses. You feel like you are falling because the holodeck uses a combination of cues to stimulate various senses so that it feels like you are falling, even when you aren't. In a sense, yes, this is like the Matrix, because your mind will experience the emotions and stress related to falling.

The safety protocols are designed to make sure that the holodeck does not simulate the fall too well. Just like in the real world, people can die from shock. Disengaging the safety protocols is probably like telling the computer to forget about any limitations to the human body or pysche.


Falling in a holodeck would be quite easy. Turn down the gravity plating, turn up the wind rushing up, make the scenery look like you really are falling and wolla. Your really falling... or are you


View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
~Spirit~
Junior Cadet


Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 17

PostFri May 13, 2005 2:53 pm    

Hitchhiker wrote:
boob wrote:
I've always wondered something, when you leave a Holodeck after you have just went swimming or something, can the water leave the room? Is your hair Wet when you leave or dry? How is it in season one of TNG that Wes Crusher left the holodeck and ran into Picard and made a "watery" mess outside of the holodeck?

Parts of the holodeck environment are replicated matter and not holographic at all. Although your example does contradict the TNG statements that for the first few years, the holodecks were rudimentary and could not recreate complicated smells, scenes, personalities, etc.


So a Holodeck can make matter like a repicator then recycle it... but food that you eat won't recycle and water in your hair won't recycle?


View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
starnova
Commodore


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1544
Location: Commodore on the USS Farraget

PostFri May 13, 2005 10:28 pm    

what if you eat some food and then stepped out of the holodeck, would you still be hungry?

View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
lionhead
Rear Admiral


Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)

PostSat May 14, 2005 6:47 am    

Depends on if the food was replicate or not, probably is. The crew always goes too the holodeck on vacation, they eat and drink in the holodeck for numberous days. So the food is real, and the drinks are too. Clothings are real too, you can always see a crew member being called towards the bridge from the Holodeck while still wearing the Holodeck clothing.

Its just replicated.



-------signature-------

Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore

View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Goto Page 1, 2  Next
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.   This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.



Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Star Trek �, in all its various forms, are trademarks & copyrights of Paramount Pictures
This site has no official connection with Star Trek or Paramount Pictures
Site content/Site design elements owned by Morphy and is meant to only be an archive/Tribute to STV.com