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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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 Wed May 11, 2005 6:50 pm |
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| Seven of Nine wrote: | The kids here play without direct adult supervision. They range from about 6-12, stay in the local area, and are known by everyone. Samantha will probably be joining them when she gets to that age, as there are normally one or two parents watching from the window, making sure they're ok. Means that the individual parents don't have to watch their children all the time.
I walked to school by myself from the age of 7, was allowed to the park with a friend at 9. I was allowed the roam the city (Liverpool) from 11. The children were probably at no great risk from strangers, and the father could have attacked anywhere. It just happened to be in the park at that time. |
I don't know if I could quite agree with that, because I think that there's a likely possibility that the kids saw him doing something he shouldn't have been, and he killed them because of that.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Thu May 12, 2005 2:03 pm |
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I don't feel kids should be watched every second of the day like some people posting here. If we are at a park or something of that nature, then watch from a distance but not like a hawk. God that is like... nevermind.
Unless you are in an unknown area, there is no need to be watching your kids 24-7. It is not the mothers fault the dad came looking for the girls...
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu May 12, 2005 4:52 pm |
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According to the news, the father confessed to the killings, saying that his daughter was not "punished enough" by his wife, stole $40, and it was passed her curfew. And this man...well, he has a LONG criminal history, including going around in Texas with a chainsaw (I think it was Texas), although he didn't kill anyone, or many people, I don't know which, like in "Texas Chainsaw Massacre."
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Thu May 12, 2005 8:25 pm |
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Obviously this man was abused pretty badly. He should have had help. Stabbing your child in the neck and killing her because he feels she wasn't behaving? WOW.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu May 12, 2005 9:27 pm |
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| zero wrote: | | Obviously this man was abused pretty badly. He should have had help. Stabbing your child in the neck and killing her because he feels she wasn't behaving? WOW. |
No, that is NOT obvious. Why can't we just accept that people can be evil? Doing something like this may HINT to abuse, but that does NOT mean that it was "obvious" that he was abused. I think he's just an evil man that the criminal justice system was too stupid to keep in jail 
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Thu May 12, 2005 10:03 pm |
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for a man to do that to his own daughter? Something is really wrong with him. I can see guys doing that to strangers... But his daughter is a different story.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu May 12, 2005 10:07 pm |
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Something wrong, abso-freaking-lutely, but that doesn't corrolate to him being abused. Though it certainly is a possibility. Some people are just messed up.
I know a boy who's been raised pretty well, has everything he needs, yet kills kittens and has violent tantrums. His parents do discipline him, but do not abuse him, nor has he been abused by anyone else. (that anyone knows of). Some people just don't reason like the rest of society.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Thu May 12, 2005 10:12 pm |
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Oh man. I can not hear about things like that. I just do not understand the need to commit animal cruelty. I would send him to some kind of center to try to help him while he is young. Because when he gets older, he can commit murder. But anyway, I understand what you are saying, Theresa.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu May 12, 2005 10:19 pm |
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| zero wrote: | | Oh man. I can not hear about things like that. I just do not understand the need to commit animal cruelty. I would send him to some kind of center to try to help him while he is young. Because when he gets older, he can commit murder. But anyway, I understand what you are saying, Theresa. |
But maybe they didn't notice it when he was young
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Thu May 12, 2005 11:13 pm |
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trust me.. if a kid is into killing baby pets.. and throws violent tantrums yes they would have noticed it. They (not the boys parents) probably didn't care and continued to abuse him to only make it worse.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri May 13, 2005 12:41 am |
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| zero wrote: | | trust me.. if a kid is into killing baby pets.. and throws violent tantrums yes they would have noticed it. They (not the boys parents) probably didn't care and continued to abuse him to only make it worse. |
You really don't have any evidence to back up that assumption about this man, but you would be right, however, in such a case.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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lex
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 226
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| Fri May 13, 2005 3:53 am |
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| zero wrote: | | I can see guys doing that to strangers... . |
Errrr ... I don't think stabbing people to death makes sense, even if they're NOT your daughters. Granted, the fact that the victims were two little girls, one of them the child of the killer, adds a particularly gruesome and tragic dimension ...
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lex
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 226
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| Fri May 13, 2005 4:06 am |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Some people just don't reason like the rest of society. |
I think they're called sociopaths. I think that's the word for people who are detached from the ideas of right and wrong, who have no sense of personal limitations and no concern about their impact on others. They see themselves as above the rules that apply to the rest of the world. (This is not a technical definition, just my own words for what I think "sociopath" means.) (I don't think that's what this guy who stabbed the girl is, though - although obviously there's something terribly wrong with him. I was disgusted when I read a quote from his attorney or someone, who said, "He has a problem with rage control." Gee - ya think?! I would say that's a huge understatement.)
I also remember reading or hearing that, if a child tortures or kills animals, it's almost a certain sign of a serious emotional or mental problem. I hope that kid you know gets help.
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Fri May 13, 2005 1:24 pm |
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| lex wrote: | | zero wrote: | | I can see guys doing that to strangers... . |
Errrr ... I don't think stabbing people to death makes sense, even if they're NOT your daughters. Granted, the fact that the victims were two little girls, one of them the child of the killer, adds a particularly gruesome and tragic dimension ... |
That is what I mean. I can see if a psycho wants to kill kids.. But his own? This guy is way out there.
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Fri May 13, 2005 1:27 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | zero wrote: | | trust me.. if a kid is into killing baby pets.. and throws violent tantrums yes they would have noticed it. They (not the boys parents) probably didn't care and continued to abuse him to only make it worse. |
You really don't have any evidence to back up that assumption about this man, but you would be right, however, in such a case. |
I don't need evidence. I'm not saying that is the way it is.. like I know everything. From a "casual observer" I see it as the man probably had a pretty twisted childhood in order to kill his daughter.
But then again, my cousin Gina, her dad was murdered by his own dad. And her grandpa had a decent upbringing. But he was a child molester/rapist... physical abuser, much much more....
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri May 13, 2005 5:11 pm |
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| zero wrote: | | lex wrote: | | zero wrote: | | I can see guys doing that to strangers... . |
Errrr ... I don't think stabbing people to death makes sense, even if they're NOT your daughters. Granted, the fact that the victims were two little girls, one of them the child of the killer, adds a particularly gruesome and tragic dimension ... |
That is what I mean. I can see if a psycho wants to kill kids.. But his own? This guy is way out there. |
I think it's wrong to actually say that if someone kills their kids like this man, then they're insane. No. He's not. It's just PURE EVIL, plain and simple.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Fri May 13, 2005 5:33 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | I think it's wrong to actually say that if someone kills their kids like this man, then they're insane. No. He's not. It's just PURE EVIL, plain and simple. |
I don't think there is a legal qualifier for "evil."
Just a nice unrelated fact, "insane" isn't even an actual medical term, it is a legal term.
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Fri May 13, 2005 5:35 pm |
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^Thanks. I can never get through to him.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri May 13, 2005 5:38 pm |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | I think it's wrong to actually say that if someone kills their kids like this man, then they're insane. No. He's not. It's just PURE EVIL, plain and simple. |
I don't think there is a legal qualifier for "evil."
Just a nice unrelated fact, "insane" isn't even an actual medical term, it is a legal term. |
Clinically insane, I meant. But I digress on that.
Anyone who brutally kills two 8-year-old children is an EVIL person. No questions about it.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Fri May 13, 2005 5:51 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Anyone who brutally kills two 8-year-old children is an EVIL person. No questions about it. |
According to whom? (Ach, a question!)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri May 13, 2005 6:06 pm |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Anyone who brutally kills two 8-year-old children is an EVIL person. No questions about it. |
According to whom? (Ach, a question!) |
ME. And many others. He is a sick, evil person, and that's that. I don't get how it's so hard to see and agree with it--I mean, he killed his 8 year old daughter and her best friend!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Fri May 13, 2005 7:11 pm |
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Hitchhiker wrote | Quote: | According to whom? (Ach, a question!)
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So u saying it was ok for him to kill his daughter and best friend? That is all messed up! That man needs the death penalty or life in prison one.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Fri May 13, 2005 7:19 pm |
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| Leo Wyatt wrote: | | So u saying it was ok for him to kill his daughter and best friend? |
No, I was just challenging RM's strong assertion that this man is unquestionably evil.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri May 13, 2005 7:45 pm |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | | Leo Wyatt wrote: | | So u saying it was ok for him to kill his daughter and best friend? |
No, I was just challenging RM's strong assertion that this man is unquestionably evil. |
Well, your challenge is wrong He, like Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, bin Laden, and Saddam, is truly unquestioningly evil.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Fri May 13, 2005 8:17 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Well, your challenge is wrong He, like Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, bin Laden, and Saddam, is truly unquestioningly evil. |
Perhaps to you. Evil, being a subjective definition, varies amongst individuals, cultures, age groups, locations, and time periods.
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