| Are you DISGUSTED with this decision? |
| OH YEAH. This is HORRIFYING. |
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50% |
[ 5 ] |
| Yes. |
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10% |
[ 1 ] |
| Somewhat. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| No. It's a GOOD decision. |
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40% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 10 |
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| Author |
Message |
Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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 Fri May 06, 2005 8:58 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Well, to YOU it's flawed. To YOU. I think my logic is quite solid. You just disagree with me, so you think that my logic is flawed. But let's not get to attacking each other, okay? Let's debate, but don't risked getting banned. |
I'm not insulting you subjectively. Logic isn't subjective. Logic is an objective set of standards with specific errors that can be made. That's early high school stuff, you should know it. You're using flawed logic. It's a fact. Look it up. If you'd like to talk on it further, contact me via IM or PM. I'll let you all get back to focusing on the pledge.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri May 06, 2005 9:03 pm |
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| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Well, to YOU it's flawed. To YOU. I think my logic is quite solid. You just disagree with me, so you think that my logic is flawed. But let's not get to attacking each other, okay? Let's debate, but don't risked getting banned. |
I'm not insulting you subjectively. Logic isn't subjective. Logic is an objective set of standards with specific errors that can be made. That's early high school stuff, you should know it. You're using flawed logic. It's a fact. Look it up. If you'd like to talk on it further, contact me via IM or PM. I'll let you all get back to focusing on the pledge. |
I don't want to contact you via PM, etc. Logic IS subjective, at least in this case. I believe that my logic is SOUND. Others would believe that it's of quality, but you do not. Why? Because you're a secularist who doesn't want religion in government at all, and so you have to attack someone who just so happens to disagree with that, in this case by saying that his logic is flawed. But whatever. Back on topic.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Sat May 07, 2005 5:46 pm |
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I wouldn't say that either is proper logic, but rather that it's personal beliefs, but that's IMO. As RM said, back on topic please, rather than a discussion on logic, 
PC is Political Correctness. Basically it means that everything should be equal, and there should be no discrimination against anyone. Sounds good but it's not always morally good.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat May 07, 2005 6:05 pm |
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| Jeremy wrote: | I wouldn't say that either is proper logic, but rather that it's personal beliefs, but that's IMO. As RM said, back on topic please, rather than a discussion on logic,
PC is Political Correctness. Basically it means that everything should be equal, and there should be no discrimination against anyone. Sounds good but it's not always morally good. |
I know what political correctness means, and it's going too far. I just didn't know that PC meant that. And I would agree with that definition, although it's more than just discrimination, but also just plain being offensive.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Mon May 09, 2005 4:16 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | And Intrepid, it IS a big deal because they are CHANING THE PLEDGE on students! You don't DO this horrible thing, and force God out of it. You just don't do it! Besides, I don't WANT to not say the pledge, but I want to keep it the way it is. We don't need to shut out the 80+% majority for a 20-% minority. |
But, by your logic, it should be changed back. Afterall, the words "Under God" were only added later on, after the pledge had been written and instituted. So if you "just don't do it," then wouldn't it make sense to change it back?
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 09, 2005 4:18 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | And Intrepid, it IS a big deal because they are CHANING THE PLEDGE on students! You don't DO this horrible thing, and force God out of it. You just don't do it! Besides, I don't WANT to not say the pledge, but I want to keep it the way it is. We don't need to shut out the 80+% majority for a 20-% minority. |
But, by your logic, it should be changed back. Afterall, the words "Under God" were only added later on, after the pledge had been written and instituted. So if you "just don't do it," then wouldn't it make sense to change it back? |
No, because the reason why it was changed was to show our religious heritage. It should stay the way it is now.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Mon May 09, 2005 4:20 pm |
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It was? Most historians think it was placed there to combat communism. But anyway, still by your logic, it should be changed back. But still "under your belief system" refers to religious heritage, as well. After all, that would refer to a christian "god" (if you believe, that is).
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 09, 2005 4:24 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | It was? Most historians think it was placed there to combat communism. But anyway, still by your logic, it should be changed back. But still "under your belief system" refers to religious heritage, as well. After all, that would refer to a christian "god" (if you believe, that is). |
Actually, no. My logic is that we keep it the way it is, now, to continue showing our religious heritage--and JUDEO-CHRISTIAN heritage. We should not change it from the way it is now. And I don't know what historians you're talking about, by I've been taught--and by a LIBERAL teacher--that it was to contrast the US religiousness to USSR secuarness, to show our religious heritage. Changing it to "under your belief system" is NOT showing religious heritage--just changing it to be compatable with extreme politically correct secularism. We are a Christian nation, founded upon Juedo-Christian principles. That's why god is just the way to go--keep it that way. After all, it DOES encompass virtually ALL religions and faiths, including athiesm, if you really look deep enough.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Mon May 09, 2005 4:34 pm |
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You said that one shouldn't change the pledge at all, and since it was changed before, then by your logic it should simply be changed back to it's first version, 
And I suppose that yes, it was to show religious heritage, possibly. But even as you said, it was done to combat communism, 
The pledge might encompass nearly all religions and faiths, including if "God" wasn't capitalized in the text, but it is.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 09, 2005 4:39 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | You said that one shouldn't change the pledge at all, and since it was changed before, then by your logic it should simply be changed back to it's first version,
And I suppose that yes, it was to show religious heritage, possibly. But even as you said, it was done to combat communism,
The pledge might encompass nearly all religions and faiths, including if "God" wasn't capitalized in the text, but it is. |
No, it wasn't used to combat communism, and I did not say that it was It was used to DIFFERENTIATE between the US and USSR. And capitalizing God makes no difference there. It's still inclusive, but at the same time shows our Juedo-Christian heritage more.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Tue May 10, 2005 8:30 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: |
Actually, no. My logic is that we keep it the way it is, now, to continue showing our religious heritage--and JUDEO-CHRISTIAN heritage. We should not change it from the way it is now. And I don't know what historians you're talking about, by I've been taught--and by a LIBERAL teacher--that it was to contrast the US religiousness to USSR secuarness, to show our religious heritage. Changing it to "under your belief system" is NOT showing religious heritage--just changing it to be compatable with extreme politically correct secularism. We are a Christian nation, founded upon Juedo-Christian principles. That's why god is just the way to go--keep it that way. After all, it DOES encompass virtually ALL religions and faiths, including athiesm, if you really look deep enough. |
Having a secular government does not mean having a secular population. The original reason for founding the colonies was the freedom to practice religion.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue May 10, 2005 4:18 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
Actually, no. My logic is that we keep it the way it is, now, to continue showing our religious heritage--and JUDEO-CHRISTIAN heritage. We should not change it from the way it is now. And I don't know what historians you're talking about, by I've been taught--and by a LIBERAL teacher--that it was to contrast the US religiousness to USSR secuarness, to show our religious heritage. Changing it to "under your belief system" is NOT showing religious heritage--just changing it to be compatable with extreme politically correct secularism. We are a Christian nation, founded upon Juedo-Christian principles. That's why god is just the way to go--keep it that way. After all, it DOES encompass virtually ALL religions and faiths, including athiesm, if you really look deep enough. |
Having a secular government does not mean having a secular population. The original reason for founding the colonies was the freedom to practice religion. |
I know it doesn't quite mean that, but where did I say that? And yes, that was a significant reason, but NOT "THE" reason.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Tue May 10, 2005 8:23 pm |
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You never said it in so many words, but that seems to be a worry for you.
I said it was the original (first) reason, and I meant the colonials, not the explorers and conquerors.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue May 10, 2005 8:45 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | You never said it in so many words, but that seems to be a worry for you.
I said it was the original (first) reason, and I meant the colonials, not the explorers and conquerors. |
Columbus, etc came before the Pilgrims, though
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Sun May 15, 2005 12:32 am |
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I'm not sure if bumping this topic is a good idea, but I found a great example of why being politically correct is extremely absurd. This is a Royal Canadian Air Farce sketch (about 4:04) in which they rewrite the Canadian national anthem to make it more politically correct.
http://airfarce.com/video/011005jh.ram (requires Real Player)
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Sun May 15, 2005 3:53 am |
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Political correctness has gone mad anyway. At my school, the black girls are allowed to do whatever they want with their hair because it's "cultural" and this includes having neon pink highlights, even though the school rules say only natural hair colours, whereas if the white girls braid their hair it's too "Extravangant" and they get suspended.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun May 15, 2005 11:37 am |
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| madlilnerd wrote: | | Political correctness has gone mad anyway. At my school, the black girls are allowed to do whatever they want with their hair because it's "cultural" and this includes having neon pink highlights, even though the school rules say only natural hair colours, whereas if the white girls braid their hair it's too "Extravangant" and they get suspended. |
Wow. That is RIDICULOUS. Like hell political correctness has gone mad. And in so many ways...
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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| Sun May 15, 2005 2:20 pm |
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| madlilnerd wrote: | | Political correctness has gone mad anyway. At my school, the black girls are allowed to do whatever they want with their hair because it's "cultural" and this includes having neon pink highlights, even though the school rules say only natural hair colours, whereas if the white girls braid their hair it's too "Extravangant" and they get suspended. |
That's stupid. Tell your teachers it's positive discrimination, and that is also against the law. Equal opportunities is meant to be for everyone.
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