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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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 Thu May 05, 2005 4:26 pm Slaying of Afghan Women Concerns U.N. |
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| Quote: | KABUL, Afghanistan -
The United Nations sounded an alarm for women's rights in
Afghanistan on Thursday after three young Afghan women were found raped, hanged and dumped on a roadside with a warning not to work for foreign relief organizations.
Women's groups rallied in the capital to protest the killings, which came weeks after another woman was murdered for alleged adultery � examples of brutality that appear to have survived the fall of the Taliban.
The bodies of the women were found Sunday in Baghlan province, 120 miles north of Kabul, and officials and doctors said they had been raped and hanged. A note found with the bodies said they were killed for working for international aid groups.
"While there is no confirmation that this was the case or the actual motive of the killing, this could constitute a threat to women working for non-governmental organizations, which (the U.N.) strongly condemns," U.N. spokeswoman Ariane Quentier said.
"In a context where violence against women remains too often unprosecuted and unpunished, it is particularly important that the authorities spare no effort to bring swiftly the perpetrator of this crime to justice," she said.
Police arrested a woman and two men in the killings.
Afghan officials said one of the slain women, identified only as Mahbooba, had worked for a Bangladeshi relief group. However, the group's managers denied any link to the victims.
Officials said the note, which accused the women of prostitution, was signed by a previously unknown "Youth Movement."
In the adultery case, authorities said Mohammed Aslam, a resident of a remote village in Badakhshan province killed his daughter Amina after she was caught in the house of a man other than her husband.
Officials say 13 people have been arrested in the case, including at least one mullah who allegedly sanctioned the killing of the 22-year-old woman.
A group of 26 Afghan women's organizations staged a protest in a Kabul park Thursday to protest the killings and urge President Hamid Karzai to make sure authorities end "outdated customs and beliefs" behind decades of violence against women.
They also urged Islamic scholars to use their influence to prevent any repeat of crimes which "sully the name of Islam and Muslims."
Nader Nadery, a spokesman for the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission, said he knew of no comparable case since the fall of the Taliban in late 2001. During the five years of Taliban rule, women were barred from education and jobs and forced to veil themselves from head to toe.
But Nadery said violence against women � from "widespread" physical abuse to forced marriages � is encouraged by the slow pace of internationally sponsored reforms to the decrepit justice system.
Quentier said the United Nations was "very concerned about the way in certain instances women are being discriminated against or treated in this country."
Justice Minister Mohammed Sarwar Danish admitted the difficulties, but put some of the blame on police for not reporting such crimes.
"In most of the provinces, these kind of incidents are happening, but nobody hears about it," Danish said.
"We're working on the reforms and we already have a good system," he said. "But sometimes there is no court, sometimes no good judge or prosecutor. This is what makes the system so difficult." |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/afghan_un_women_slain
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Thu May 05, 2005 4:27 pm |
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This sickens me.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon May 09, 2005 12:23 am |
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I watched a couple of documentaries on Afghan and Iraqi women today. It was scary, and enlightening. The men literally own the women, and we say, "oh, it's just their culture". Well, the thing wrong with that argument is that the women aren't free to choose if they want that to be their culture.
Apparently it was America's culture a few hundred years ago to own slaves, and Britains before that, but we both grew beyond it. Don't these women deserve the same opportunity? The ones who stand up will continue to be killed and raped as long as they are too weak to stand up for themselves, and have no one who will stand up for them. Thank God for the UK and the US and the rest of the allies.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Mon May 09, 2005 1:00 am |
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You say we grew beyond that, but it sure took us some time too. So don't go forcing your culture upon them people, as much as it sucks what happens because of it. 
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon May 09, 2005 1:10 am |
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| Dirt wrote: | | You say we grew beyond that, but it sure took us some time too. So don't go forcing your culture upon them people, as much as it sucks what happens because of it. |
Its not America's culture to tream women with respect. Its basic dignity that should be given to them.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Mon May 09, 2005 6:55 am |
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Protecting women is not "forcing culture" at all. Protecting women is just that. Besides, if someones "culture" is to rape and kill women, then clearly, their culture needs to change.
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Mon May 09, 2005 9:33 am |
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The penalty was based on their law system, are you saying that their laws aren't part of their own culture? I'm not saying it doesn't need to be changed, I'm saying you can't force change like that over such a short period of time. It's gonna have to come from the people themselves.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon May 09, 2005 11:21 am |
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Things in those situations didn't just "change". If you recall your history, there were wars regarding both. These women don't seem to have many people coming to their aid.
Saying that we need to just sit and wait and let them grow out of it on their own is exactly like saying we need to stand there and watch a small child be hurt until it's old enough/big enough to stand up for itself. Both would be cruel.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Mon May 09, 2005 12:11 pm |
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That's so horrific! In those countries if you even touch a man who isn't your husband you can get your hand cut off, but a man can go around with whoever he wants. Women are stoned to death for adultery. Stoning is one of the slowest and most painful forms of public execution.
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Mon May 09, 2005 12:20 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | Things in those situations didn't just "change". If you recall your history, there were wars regarding both. These women don't seem to have many people coming to their aid.
Saying that we need to just sit and wait and let them grow out of it on their own is exactly like saying we need to stand there and watch a small child be hurt until it's old enough/big enough to stand up for itself. Both would be cruel. |
Otherwise they just don't learn do they?
But anyways, you got states with the death penalty,
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Mon May 09, 2005 12:54 pm |
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Yes, which goes through the courts, and is very very thurough. You really can't compare that with vigilante law (if you would even go so far as to call this that).
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Mon May 09, 2005 1:07 pm |
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You end up seeing murder as a way of justice... it might look more cultured but the end result is just as barbaric
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon May 09, 2005 1:48 pm |
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| Dirt wrote: | | The penalty was based on their law system, are you saying that their laws aren't part of their own culture? I'm not saying it doesn't need to be changed, I'm saying you can't force change like that over such a short period of time. It's gonna have to come from the people themselves. |
Over a short period of time? So we should let it happen over time? "Sorry ladies, we have to let you grow on your own. Yes, we have the power to help you, but apparently people frown on us helping you. Whats that? Yeah, you, your daughter, and your granddaughter probably won't live to see the laws being changed. So good luck with that and becareful not to do...well basically anything." 
| Dirt wrote: | | You end up seeing murder as a way of justice... it might look more cultured but the end result is just as barbaric |
You're comparing the Death penalty to killing women for no real reason? For watching TV? For reading? For touching a man. For tiny stupid things that they don't deserve to die through? Killing them in brutal ways as well. If a woman is raped, she is stoned to death to "retain her honor". Why is it bad that we want to change that? I guess nothing America does is good enough for people.
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Mon May 09, 2005 1:51 pm |
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I just feel terrible people have to live like this. I wish I could help. But I have no idea what the government or anyone could really do to help, and not put the women in more danger.
I just don't understand some religions sometimes.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon May 09, 2005 1:55 pm |
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| zero wrote: | I just feel terrible people have to live like this. I wish I could help. But I have no idea what the government or anyone could really do to help, and not put the women in more danger.
I just don't understand some religions sometimes. |
Um...what does Religion have to do with this?
Islam doesn't really preach killing women. In fact there are parts of the Quran that speak of respecting women.
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Mon May 09, 2005 2:37 pm |
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I don't think we are talking about Islam though.
In their religion isn't that the way it is? Isn't that why the women have to dress in black vail things and get no rights? Or is that just because the men said so...
Maybe I'm confused...
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Mon May 09, 2005 2:52 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | Dirt wrote: | | The penalty was based on their law system, are you saying that their laws aren't part of their own culture? I'm not saying it doesn't need to be changed, I'm saying you can't force change like that over such a short period of time. It's gonna have to come from the people themselves. |
Over a short period of time? So we should let it happen over time? "Sorry ladies, we have to let you grow on your own. Yes, we have the power to help you, but apparently people frown on us helping you. Whats that? Yeah, you, your daughter, and your granddaughter probably won't live to see the laws being changed. So good luck with that and becareful not to do...well basically anything."
| Dirt wrote: | | You end up seeing murder as a way of justice... it might look more cultured but the end result is just as barbaric |
You're comparing the Death penalty to killing women for no real reason? For watching TV? For reading? For touching a man. For tiny stupid things that they don't deserve to die through? Killing them in brutal ways as well. If a woman is raped, she is stoned to death to "retain her honor". Why is it bad that we want to change that? I guess nothing America does is good enough for people. |
I'm not comparing the death penalty to killing for no reason, I'm comparing laws to eachother that end up with the same result. To you these things might seem tiny and stupid, but obviously you're not living in Afghanistan then where things like that actually mean breaking the law. Ever realised that cultures are different sometimes? And that values and morals might not be the same in a different country?
They created the laws themselves, so they must change them themselves. As much as that stinks for the women.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Mon May 09, 2005 3:15 pm |
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| zero wrote: | I don't think we are talking about Islam though.
In their religion isn't that the way it is? Isn't that why the women have to dress in black vail things and get no rights? Or is that just because the men said so...
Maybe I'm confused... |
That is one interpretation of the religion. However, there are other interpretations which do not involve the oppression of women's rights. As with any institutionalized religion, the majority of its shortcomings are a result of corruption within the institution rather than a problem with the tenets of the religion itself.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon May 09, 2005 3:24 pm |
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| Dirt wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | Dirt wrote: | | The penalty was based on their law system, are you saying that their laws aren't part of their own culture? I'm not saying it doesn't need to be changed, I'm saying you can't force change like that over such a short period of time. It's gonna have to come from the people themselves. |
Over a short period of time? So we should let it happen over time? "Sorry ladies, we have to let you grow on your own. Yes, we have the power to help you, but apparently people frown on us helping you. Whats that? Yeah, you, your daughter, and your granddaughter probably won't live to see the laws being changed. So good luck with that and becareful not to do...well basically anything."
| Dirt wrote: | | You end up seeing murder as a way of justice... it might look more cultured but the end result is just as barbaric |
You're comparing the Death penalty to killing women for no real reason? For watching TV? For reading? For touching a man. For tiny stupid things that they don't deserve to die through? Killing them in brutal ways as well. If a woman is raped, she is stoned to death to "retain her honor". Why is it bad that we want to change that? I guess nothing America does is good enough for people. |
I'm not comparing the death penalty to killing for no reason, I'm comparing laws to eachother that end up with the same result. To you these things might seem tiny and stupid, but obviously you're not living in Afghanistan then where things like that actually mean breaking the law. Ever realised that cultures are different sometimes? And that values and morals might not be the same in a different country?
They created the laws themselves, so they must change them themselves. As much as that stinks for the women. |
I understand what you're saying. You are aright about the same result, different reasons. I understand that it is a different culture, but tell that to the women over there. If there was a culture that surrounded itself in killing people, yes I would oppose it. Its not about cultures, but rather the right thing to do. Although to be fair, right and wrong are often blurred.
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Mon May 09, 2005 3:50 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | zero wrote: | I just feel terrible people have to live like this. I wish I could help. But I have no idea what the government or anyone could really do to help, and not put the women in more danger.
I just don't understand some religions sometimes. |
Um...what does Religion have to do with this?
Islam doesn't really preach killing women. In fact there are parts of the Quran that speak of respecting women. |
Christianity teaches us to love each other, yet there were the Crusades. Oh, yeah, and the Inquisition.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Mon May 09, 2005 4:03 pm |
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The Quaran doesn't say anything about headscarfs or female circumsition or a lot of the other stuff people associate with Islam. It's a tradition from the country, not the religion. The Quaran says that men should protect women.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 09, 2005 4:10 pm |
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Do I really need to say anything when Founder and Theresa are right on? I shall post no more here
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon May 09, 2005 4:21 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | zero wrote: | I just feel terrible people have to live like this. I wish I could help. But I have no idea what the government or anyone could really do to help, and not put the women in more danger.
I just don't understand some religions sometimes. |
Um...what does Religion have to do with this?
Islam doesn't really preach killing women. In fact there are parts of the Quran that speak of respecting women. |
Christianity teaches us to love each other, yet there were the Crusades. Oh, yeah, and the Inquisition. |
*Sigh* Its sad that people think Christianity and those two things pop up. Did you ever stop to think it was the people and NOT the Religion? The Religion does not preach either.
Also what does that have to do with Islam and the women's treatment? Nothing. Just more bashing of my Religion. Great...
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Mon May 09, 2005 6:28 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | webtaz99 wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | zero wrote: | I just feel terrible people have to live like this. I wish I could help. But I have no idea what the government or anyone could really do to help, and not put the women in more danger.
I just don't understand some religions sometimes. |
Um...what does Religion have to do with this?
Islam doesn't really preach killing women. In fact there are parts of the Quran that speak of respecting women. |
Christianity teaches us to love each other, yet there were the Crusades. Oh, yeah, and the Inquisition. |
*Sigh* Its sad that people think Christianity and those two things pop up. Did you ever stop to think it was the people and NOT the Religion? The Religion does not preach either.
Also what does that have to do with Islam and the women's treatment? Nothing. Just more bashing of my Religion. Great... |
EXACTLY MY POINT. And pointing out the truth is not "bashing".
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon May 09, 2005 7:42 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | webtaz99 wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | zero wrote: | I just feel terrible people have to live like this. I wish I could help. But I have no idea what the government or anyone could really do to help, and not put the women in more danger.
I just don't understand some religions sometimes. |
Um...what does Religion have to do with this?
Islam doesn't really preach killing women. In fact there are parts of the Quran that speak of respecting women. |
Christianity teaches us to love each other, yet there were the Crusades. Oh, yeah, and the Inquisition. |
*Sigh* Its sad that people think Christianity and those two things pop up. Did you ever stop to think it was the people and NOT the Religion? The Religion does not preach either.
Also what does that have to do with Islam and the women's treatment? Nothing. Just more bashing of my Religion. Great... |
EXACTLY MY POINT. And pointing out the truth is not "bashing". |
First of all thats not the truth. Those two things do not define my Religion. Second of all. Your point is what exactly? That just because Islam preaches respect towards women, that doesn't mean people will always do that?
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