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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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 Wed May 04, 2005 7:06 am stem cell research |
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This is our latest debate for both debate and speach teams and its a grade in biology, so, gimme what you got.
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Wed May 04, 2005 7:40 am |
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My take is:
I have already seen doctors isolate a person's own stem cells, and then concentrate them and reinject them in order to heal specific injuries.
We need need to learn how to isolate a person's own stem cells, then revert those cells back to their embrionic form (I don't know the details, but adult stem cells are not as flexible as embrionic ones). Then cause those reverted cells to multiply rapidly. This creates the most effective stem cells with no possibility of rejection and no moral dilemas.
Any other use of stem cells is simply a matter of taking shortcuts to make money.
-------signature-------
"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Wed May 04, 2005 1:32 pm |
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I'm for stem cell research. I voted for it. I really do think with this they can find a lot of cures for things, maybe even some cancers.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed May 04, 2005 5:28 pm |
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I'm for stem cell research on those fetuses that are frozen, but otherwise, it's immoral to have an abortion in order to get EMBRIONIC stem cells. And that's what they have to do.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Wed May 04, 2005 5:44 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | My take is:
I have already seen doctors isolate a person's own stem cells, and then concentrate them and reinject them in order to heal specific injuries.
We need need to learn how to isolate a person's own stem cells, then revert those cells back to their embrionic form (I don't know the details, but adult stem cells are not as flexible as embrionic ones). Then cause those reverted cells to multiply rapidly. This creates the most effective stem cells with no possibility of rejection and no moral dilemas.
Any other use of stem cells is simply a matter of taking shortcuts to make money. |
Just an FYI embrionic stem cells cause tumors in adults. Adult stem cells can only form what they've been diferentiated into.
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Wed May 04, 2005 6:47 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | webtaz99 wrote: | My take is:
I have already seen doctors isolate a person's own stem cells, and then concentrate them and reinject them in order to heal specific injuries.
We need need to learn how to isolate a person's own stem cells, then revert those cells back to their embrionic form (I don't know the details, but adult stem cells are not as flexible as embrionic ones). Then cause those reverted cells to multiply rapidly. This creates the most effective stem cells with no possibility of rejection and no moral dilemas.
Any other use of stem cells is simply a matter of taking shortcuts to make money. |
Just an FYI embrionic stem cells cause tumors in adults. Adult stem cells can only form what they've been diferentiated into. |
Exactly why we need to revert adult stems cells to a point where they can become any other tissue.
-------signature-------
"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Wed May 04, 2005 10:32 pm |
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Murder = Wrong.
It's not that difficult of a concept.
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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| Thu May 05, 2005 5:43 am |
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I'm for stem cell research, especially using test tubes (which is what is being explored at the Centre for Life in Newcastl near me). As for the other methods, I need to know more.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Thu May 05, 2005 6:03 am |
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I am totally against it. People who do the stem cell just don't have any morals in my opinion.
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Thu May 05, 2005 6:59 am |
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People need to understand:
Not all stem cell research involves fetuses!
Stem cells can be found in placentas and adults.
-------signature-------
"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Thu May 05, 2005 7:02 am |
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Sperm is technically a stem cell. They're all over the place in the human body, and you need not be killed in order to get them.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Thu May 05, 2005 3:43 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | People need to understand:
Not all stem cell research involves fetuses!
Stem cells can be found in placentas and adults. |
A agree with any research which doesn't involve murdering a fetus. In fact, the non-fetal cells are the ones which have, in the past, shown more potential.
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Thu May 05, 2005 3:47 pm |
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stem cell research is not murder. Fetus or not.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu May 05, 2005 6:32 pm |
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| zero wrote: | | stem cell research is not murder. Fetus or not. |
Yeah but the ability to research comes from murder.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu May 05, 2005 6:38 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | zero wrote: | | stem cell research is not murder. Fetus or not. |
Yeah but the ability to research comes from murder. |
Exactly. Embrionic stem-cell research involves MURDER.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Thu May 05, 2005 6:42 pm |
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The good of the many outweighs the need of the few.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu May 05, 2005 6:44 pm |
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| zero wrote: | | The good of the many outweighs the need of the few. |
The NEED of a few? WHAT? Do you know how many babies could be KILLED from this? That is a BOGUS argument. So, now you're justifying murder. Well, okay. By that logic, the needs of the younger generation out way the needs of the fewer older generation, so let's kill them off to lessen the population.
You see, you justifying murder for the "good of the many" means that for the "good of the many," murder can be justified under ANY circumstances. That's just a horrifying argument.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Thu May 05, 2005 6:47 pm |
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A fetus is not a baby. Therefor it isn't considered murder. If it were "murder" It would be ILLEGAL.
SIGH,.... 
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Thu May 05, 2005 6:52 pm |
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Regardless of the moral definition of when something is living enough to be "murder," the National Academy of Sciences has a 131-page set of recommendations, which would include limiting the growth of embryos in labs to a maximum of 14 days. This is because that is the period until the embryo begins developing an immune system (and has been common pratctice in in-vitro-fertilization labs).
I think that makes sense: if it doesn't have a nervous system yet, it isn't feeling pain nor does it really have, in any sense, a "mind" that is being harmed. Once something develops a nervous system, grey areas get even murkier.
Last edited by Hitchhiker on Thu May 05, 2005 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu May 05, 2005 6:52 pm |
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| zero wrote: | | The good of the many outweighs the need of the few. |
I've always HATED this comment. Thats right, I HATE it. I can't believe it came from a "good guy" in the series. That translates to: Killing a few people is ok, for the good of the majority. Killing ONE person is WRONG. This comment is so cold and emotionless, it can only come from a Vulcan. This isn't a communist nation. Everybody is worth something, in this ENTIRE world. Killing someone so you can help another person is not right. These babies have done nothing to you, but come at an "inconvinient" time. Its not even thier faults either. Don't give me that stupid qoute. This isn't Star Trek. These are real lives that you are writing off.
| zero wrote: | A fetus is not a baby. Therefor it isn't considered murder. If it were "murder" It would be ILLEGAL.
SIGH,.... |
Its not a baby? Really? I always assumed they were. Strange. What does a BABY grow from then?
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Thu May 05, 2005 7:05 pm |
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I can't believe "star trek" fans can be like this. This is science, and it can cure cancer... and help soooo many things in this world.
I'm astonished. 
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Thu May 05, 2005 7:12 pm |
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| zero wrote: | I can't believe "star trek" fans can be like this. This is science, and it can cure cancer... and help soooo many things in this world.
I'm astonished. |
I think it's more of a sense that the ends do not justify the means . . . which is somewhat ironic, and proves that generalizations don't make sense..
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu May 05, 2005 7:13 pm |
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| zero wrote: | I can't believe "star trek" fans can be like this. This is science, and it can cure cancer... and help soooo many things in this world.
I'm astonished. |
What? If you're a Star Trek fan, Science can be the only way? Yeah but the cost maybe a little high. What if there was a 100% way to find a cure for cancer, but we had to kill 10,000,000 babies born with cancer. Would you agree to this? You could argue that the babies will die from the cancer anyways. We will free them from a life of pain. Would it still be ok?
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Thu May 05, 2005 7:18 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | zero wrote: | I can't believe "star trek" fans can be like this. This is science, and it can cure cancer... and help soooo many things in this world.
I'm astonished. |
What? If you're a Star Trek fan, Science can be the only way? Yeah but the cost maybe a little high. What if there was a 100% way to find a cure for cancer, but we had to kill 10,000,000 babies born with cancer. Would you agree to this? You could argue that the babies will die from the cancer anyways. We will free them from a life of pain. Would it still be ok? |
I would agree to it. Because they are not actual babies. If they were already born, then No I would not agree. But since we are talking about embryos here... why not?
And no, science does not have to be the only way. But at least have an open mind about things.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu May 05, 2005 7:20 pm |
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| zero wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | zero wrote: | I can't believe "star trek" fans can be like this. This is science, and it can cure cancer... and help soooo many things in this world.
I'm astonished. |
What? If you're a Star Trek fan, Science can be the only way? Yeah but the cost maybe a little high. What if there was a 100% way to find a cure for cancer, but we had to kill 10,000,000 babies born with cancer. Would you agree to this? You could argue that the babies will die from the cancer anyways. We will free them from a life of pain. Would it still be ok? |
I would agree to it. Because they are not actual babies. If they were already born, then No I would not agree. But since we are talking about embryos here... why not?
And no, science does not have to be the only way. But at least have an open mind about things. |
Well what you consider "not babies" others consider babies. So you should have an open mind as well.
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