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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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 Sun May 01, 2005 3:40 pm |
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Whooooo says anybody is dieing, 
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Sun May 01, 2005 4:02 pm |
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Everyone's dieing. It's happening as we speak. Kinda creepy to think of it though...
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Mon May 02, 2005 2:14 pm |
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| Rbgirl wrote: | | You just don't kill an innocent baby just because it might have a disorder. Just plain out mean and cruel. It is human just like you and me. |
They are doing the kid a favor. I wouldn't want to live a sickly life.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Mon May 02, 2005 2:16 pm |
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Thats you. It is still wrong and evil  
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Mon May 02, 2005 2:32 pm |
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Why not just kill the elderly too, while we're at it.
I mean, they don't work. They don't contribute anything economically to society, they take our Social Security dollars...
I mean, why waster doctors on them, they could be helping the young and virile...
Come on... Anyone who would kill on baby to preserve another is a monster, and should burn in hell for their deeds.
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Mon May 02, 2005 3:04 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | Why not just kill the elderly too, while we're at it.
I mean, they don't work. They don't contribute anything economically to society, they take our Social Security dollars...
I mean, why waster doctors on them, they could be helping the young and virile...
Come on... Anyone who would kill on baby to preserve another is a monster, and should burn in hell for their deeds. |
They have already lived, done their part to contribute to society. They should be granted the right to live in homes, and live a happy life.
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Mon May 02, 2005 3:08 pm |
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Heeeeeello, maybe everybody is missing something here, as no one is dieing.
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zero
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 4566
Location: Texas
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| Mon May 02, 2005 3:15 pm |
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I know no one is dieng hun. This is just... oh.. hypotheticaly speaking. (m/s)
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon May 02, 2005 10:04 pm |
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I'm confused. Why are we able to create entire humans but not specific organs?
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Mon May 02, 2005 10:35 pm |
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Well, to a very limited extent we can create individual organs. The key is though, that once a human gets started, biology naturally grows the organs along with it. Of all these processes, natural conception is the one we know best. On the other hand, it's considerably harder to get just a lung, for example, to grow from a few base cells. You're not just helping to start a natural process there, you're trying to make an entirely new process from scratch. That's difficult to do, as I'm sure you can imagine.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 02, 2005 10:38 pm |
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| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | Well, to a very limited extent we can create individual organs. The key is though, that once a human gets started, biology naturally grows the organs along with it. Of all these processes, natural conception is the one we know best. On the other hand, it's considerably harder to get just a lung, for example, to grow from a few base cells. You're not just helping to start a natural process there, you're trying to make an entirely new process from scratch. That's difficult to do, as I'm sure you can imagine. |
Hmmm, yes. Now, I recall you recently discussed the novel Brave New World by Aldous Huxley (I hope that's the correct spelling.) Well, we've just started to study it in my English class. First of all, I don't really like the book because it's too boring but it has unique relevance to this situation. It's all about the cloning of humans and integrating them into society for one single purpose. That's something that I fear that we are nearing in this Earth, and it's dangerous, not to mention ethically horrifying.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Mon May 02, 2005 10:42 pm |
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I've never even read Brave New World. I keep hearing the title referenced though. I should check it out. In any case, I don't think cloning will get too out of hand, not in the democratic nations anyway. It's still cause for concern though, this is certainly true.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Mon May 02, 2005 10:46 pm |
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| zero wrote: | | Rbgirl wrote: | | You just don't kill an innocent baby just because it might have a disorder. Just plain out mean and cruel. It is human just like you and me. |
They are doing the kid a favor. I wouldn't want to live a sickly life. |
And I wouldn't want to live a healthy life at someone elses cost.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Mon May 02, 2005 11:02 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Hmmm, yes. Now, I recall you recently discussed the novel Brave New World by Aldous Huxley (I hope that's the correct spelling.) Well, we've just started to study it in my English class. First of all, I don't really like the book because it's too boring but it has unique relevance to this situation. It's all about the cloning of humans and integrating them into society for one single purpose. That's something that I fear that we are nearing in this Earth, and it's dangerous, not to mention ethically horrifying. |
It is I who is constantly bringing it up. Sure, it can drag in some parts, but it is nowhere near as entrenched as, saw, Heinlein's For Us, the Living. That's a stellar book, but half of it is economic lecturing in thin veneer; or for another example, Sophie's World -- third best book in the world, but most of it is literally a frank discussion on the philosophical history of Western civilization. 
Anyway, I digress. Like Zeke said, it is easier to clone a human because an organ alone is not a lifeform. An organ is organic, but it relies on other organs to live for a long time. That's why stem cell research is important--it shall help us understand the development of cells and not only how to clone organs, but regenerate existing ones (which would be more feasible).
In Huxley's Brave New World, cloning is a process instituted to maintain a stable class system, and thus ensure there is no worker revolution (hence why his future is not communism per se). It makes perfect social sense--if you need a scientist, breed a scientist; if you need a plumber, breed a plumber--but I agree it is a departure from the current human perspective on social equality and class systems.
In that respect, Brave New World almost reminds me of Gattaca (a movie). While the movie is not an artistic masterpiece, the message it sends is a clear one. Gattaca is a world where the extent of everyone's potential is determined from birth, and they can never go beyond that--if you do, obviously your potential just wasn't measured correctly. In similar themes to Brave New World, the main character attempts to better himself by breaking out of the caste in which he has been placed for his entire life, and make his own choices.
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Mon May 02, 2005 11:11 pm |
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Gattaca. Finally, a title I actually know. I was getting worried.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Tue May 03, 2005 2:11 pm |
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| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | Well, to a very limited extent we can create individual organs. The key is though, that once a human gets started, biology naturally grows the organs along with it. Of all these processes, natural conception is the one we know best. On the other hand, it's considerably harder to get just a lung, for example, to grow from a few base cells. You're not just helping to start a natural process there, you're trying to make an entirely new process from scratch. That's difficult to do, as I'm sure you can imagine. |
I don't know much about the subject but from the little I know all cells contain all the information to make a human because of the way humans are made. They don't all use the information though, as only parts of the DNA is switched on. Wouldn't it be "easy" to find the gene's needed to turn on the information to make a lung, say?
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Wed May 04, 2005 7:39 am |
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I'm no expert either, but apparently not.
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Wed May 04, 2005 7:44 am |
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| Jeremy wrote: | | Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | Well, to a very limited extent we can create individual organs. The key is though, that once a human gets started, biology naturally grows the organs along with it. Of all these processes, natural conception is the one we know best. On the other hand, it's considerably harder to get just a lung, for example, to grow from a few base cells. You're not just helping to start a natural process there, you're trying to make an entirely new process from scratch. That's difficult to do, as I'm sure you can imagine. |
I don't know much about the subject but from the little I know all cells contain all the information to make a human because of the way humans are made. They don't all use the information though, as only parts of the DNA is switched on. Wouldn't it be "easy" to find the gene's needed to turn on the information to make a lung, say? |
Even if (when) such a "switch" is found, a lung (or other organ) does not grow separately. It grows as part of a person. I truly believe that in the long run it will be simpler to heal and even regenerate existing organs rather than replace them.
BTW, I seem to remember reading somewhere that scientists have found the same "genetic equipment" that certain reptiles use to regenerate limbs in human DNA. They speculate that we may be able to "switch it back on".
-------signature-------
"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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