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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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 Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:12 pm |
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| Ithildin wrote: | | A quick fix isn't the answer. Massive pollution will mar the alaskan wildlife for ages.. for some oil? It's a non-renewable resource that will run out yet again. Why not create a solution for the problem rather than slapping a band-aid on it which will destroy a unique and beautiful habitat? Why are people so nearsighted lately? |
It's not nearsightedness if you plain don't give a hoot about "the environment".
And with SO MUCH MONEY AT STAKE, don't you think that many, many very smart people are working like mad to "create a solution" to this problem?
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:15 pm |
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| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | I don't believe so. Especially since we need to be focusing on finding alternative energy, not getting more oil. The more oil we give ourselves access to, the longer it will take for alternative energy to become a priority. |
This attittude facsinates me. What hidden, unknown, and possibly secret energy source does everyone think will suddenly be "found" or "developed"?
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:22 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | I don't believe so. Especially since we need to be focusing on finding alternative energy, not getting more oil. The more oil we give ourselves access to, the longer it will take for alternative energy to become a priority. |
This attittude facsinates me. What hidden, unknown, and possibly secret energy source does everyone think will suddenly be "found" or "developed"? |
Corn oil can be used as fuel in most cars.
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borgslayer
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 2646
Location: Las Vegas
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| Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:48 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | webtaz99 wrote: | | Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | I don't believe so. Especially since we need to be focusing on finding alternative energy, not getting more oil. The more oil we give ourselves access to, the longer it will take for alternative energy to become a priority. |
This attittude facsinates me. What hidden, unknown, and possibly secret energy source does everyone think will suddenly be "found" or "developed"? |
Corn oil can be used as fuel in most cars. |
Yeah but you need lots of Corn Oil to power lots of cars and thats a lot of Corn farming. However it can help.
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:50 pm |
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| borgslayer wrote: | | Yeah but you need lots of Corn Oil to power lots of cars and thats a lot of Corn farming. However it can help. |
Actually not really. Corn oil gets you better mileage. So you use less.
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Ithildin
Junior Cadet
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 16
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| Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:49 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | Ithildin wrote: | | A quick fix isn't the answer. Massive pollution will mar the alaskan wildlife for ages.. for some oil? It's a non-renewable resource that will run out yet again. Why not create a solution for the problem rather than slapping a band-aid on it which will destroy a unique and beautiful habitat? Why are people so nearsighted lately? |
It's not nearsightedness if you plain don't give a hoot about "the environment".
And with SO MUCH MONEY AT STAKE, don't you think that many, many very smart people are working like mad to "create a solution" to this problem? |
you may not, but your future generations will when their homes are being flooded and they're suffocating from CO2 poisoning. 
So all you care about is money? If that's not nearsighted, I don't know what is. Capitalism won't keep the ozone layer intact, now will it? 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun May 01, 2005 12:10 pm |
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Taz is quite right here. You know, drilling in Alaska should definitely help, and we should do everything we can with fossil fuels right now to maximize their capability (build more refineries, drilling in Alaska, etc)
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sun May 01, 2005 4:17 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Taz is quite right here. You know, drilling in Alaska should definitely help, and we should do everything we can with fossil fuels right now to maximize their capability (build more refineries, drilling in Alaska, etc) |
And what good are these refineries going to be when we have no more oil?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun May 01, 2005 4:21 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Taz is quite right here. You know, drilling in Alaska should definitely help, and we should do everything we can with fossil fuels right now to maximize their capability (build more refineries, drilling in Alaska, etc) |
And what good are these refineries going to be when we have no more oil? |
Oh, yeah, like we're going to run out of oil really soon 
That's why we need a long-term plan, too. I would say that that involves researching other sources of energy (giving businesses incentives to do so).
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Sun May 01, 2005 4:21 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | Jeremy wrote: | | webtaz99 wrote: | | Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | I'm going to say two facts again. One: Building more refineries isn't going to help gas prices unless we reach the point where the current refineries can't keep up with demand, and the oil companies won't allow that to happen. They'll build more first. Two: Gas prices will decrease only a negligible amount, if at all, if the ANWR is drilled. |
Check your facts: we already have reached the point where the current refineries can't keep up with demand. That's part of why prices are so high. |
How about we increase the amount of small scale renewable energy sources for areas, using the best one(s) for that area. Then it will lower the emissions, it will lower the fuel dependency and prices and make the current supplies last longer. |
If you are meaning things such as Dams then I know. There is different types of renewable energies though, wave, solar, wind etc. And I didn't make it clear in that power although I implied it but you don't need total reliance on the solar power etc at the moment for industry but you can use some which will lessen the need for fossil fuel and nuclear power.
I hate to pop your bubble, but most places that could have hydro do have hydro. And the places with wind are showing that it won't work in as many places as previously thought. And I've said this so many times I feel like a scratched CD, but solar will never supply enough energy for transportation or indrustry. |
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sun May 01, 2005 4:25 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | Oh, yeah, like we're going to run out of oil really soon
That's why we need a long-term plan, too. I would say that that involves researching other sources of energy (giving businesses incentives to do so). |
Sooner than you think. And no one is going to do anything until the preasure is really on, and by then its too damn late.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun May 01, 2005 4:26 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | Oh, yeah, like we're going to run out of oil really soon
That's why we need a long-term plan, too. I would say that that involves researching other sources of energy (giving businesses incentives to do so). |
Sooner than you think. And no one is going to do anything until the preasure is really on, and by then its too damn late. |
Kind of like Social Security, hmmm? What about the threat of Iraq or other threats, hmmm?
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sun May 01, 2005 4:27 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | Oh, yeah, like we're going to run out of oil really soon
That's why we need a long-term plan, too. I would say that that involves researching other sources of energy (giving businesses incentives to do so). |
Sooner than you think. And no one is going to do anything until the preasure is really on, and by then its too damn late. |
Kind of like Social Security, hmmm? What about the threat of Iraq or other threats, hmmm? |
Is that drilling for oil? nooooooo
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun May 01, 2005 4:31 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | Oh, yeah, like we're going to run out of oil really soon
That's why we need a long-term plan, too. I would say that that involves researching other sources of energy (giving businesses incentives to do so). |
Sooner than you think. And no one is going to do anything until the preasure is really on, and by then its too damn late. |
Kind of like Social Security, hmmm? What about the threat of Iraq or other threats, hmmm? |
Is that drilling for oil? nooooooo |
All I'm wondering is, to prove your sincerity for dealing with problems before they get to bad, do you not think that we should act on, say, the Social Security problem now?
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sun May 01, 2005 4:38 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | All I'm wondering is, to prove your sincerity for dealing with problems before they get to bad, do you not think that we should act on, say, the Social Security problem now? |
I see no problem with social security, except that its been cut by the damned bush adminstration.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun May 01, 2005 4:42 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | All I'm wondering is, to prove your sincerity for dealing with problems before they get to bad, do you not think that we should act on, say, the Social Security problem now? |
I see no problem with social security, except that its been cut by the damned bush adminstration. |
Oh, so you see a problem with Global Warming and the environment, and yet not a problem that is a DEFINITE, UNDESPUTABLE problem? Wow.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Sun May 01, 2005 4:47 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | All I'm wondering is, to prove your sincerity for dealing with problems before they get to bad, do you not think that we should act on, say, the Social Security problem now? |
I see no problem with social security, except that its been cut by the damned bush adminstration. |
There is a problem with the United States' Social Security program. Current contributors are not contributing enough money. Up until now, there's been a surplus that could deal with this problem. The surplus is projected to run out within the next few decades, however, and that would mean people would start getting less and less benefits from the program.
Bush wants to privatize Social Security by allowing people to directly invest it as they see fit--giving them more economic freedom to either win or lose. I'd much rather have bureaucrat-supervised losses than free-market losses however.
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sun May 01, 2005 4:48 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Oh, so you see a problem with Global Warming and the environment, and yet not a problem that is a DEFINITE, UNDESPUTABLE problem? Wow. |
Well, when you don't have much money, rich people not getting money is just poetic justice to you. However, I would like my children to inherit a world that they can use.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun May 01, 2005 4:52 pm |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | | 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | All I'm wondering is, to prove your sincerity for dealing with problems before they get to bad, do you not think that we should act on, say, the Social Security problem now? |
I see no problem with social security, except that its been cut by the damned bush adminstration. |
There is a problem with the United States' Social Security program. Current contributors are not contributing enough money. Up until now, there's been a surplus that could deal with this problem. The surplus is projected to run out within the next few decades, however, and that would mean people would start getting less and less benefits from the program.
Bush wants to privatize Social Security by allowing people to directly invest it as they see fit--giving them more economic freedom to either win or lose. I'd much rather have bureaucrat-supervised losses than free-market losses however. |
This debate should not be about social security, but I will quickly respond: He does NOT want to privatize social security. He wants to allow the CHOICE for personal accounts, NOT for privatization of the program.
And btw, if anyone will get cuts with the program, it's the wealthy. The poor will get more.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Mon May 02, 2005 7:29 am |
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| Ithildin wrote: | | webtaz99 wrote: | | Ithildin wrote: | | A quick fix isn't the answer. Massive pollution will mar the alaskan wildlife for ages.. for some oil? It's a non-renewable resource that will run out yet again. Why not create a solution for the problem rather than slapping a band-aid on it which will destroy a unique and beautiful habitat? Why are people so nearsighted lately? |
It's not nearsightedness if you plain don't give a hoot about "the environment".
And with SO MUCH MONEY AT STAKE, don't you think that many, many very smart people are working like mad to "create a solution" to this problem? |
you may not, but your future generations will when their homes are being flooded and they're suffocating from CO2 poisoning.
So all you care about is money? If that's not nearsighted, I don't know what is. Capitalism won't keep the ozone layer intact, now will it? |
I did not say I don't care about the environment. I was merely pointing out that others in power do have that attitude.
I did not say that all I care about is money. I was merely pointing out that there is a huge financial incentive for some person or group to come up with a workable alternative to using oil, and that it stands to reason that many people and groups are seeking such an alternative.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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