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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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 Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:41 pm |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | What? Did I tell him to believe it as fact? No. But should he have said that people shouldn't take it as fact and then said that it isn't? No. He did NOT need to say that. That was an ignorant and mean-spirited statement. |
I'm sorry... So I guess that all the "Gay is a sin", "They shouldn't be allowed to marry" and other such comments aren't your way of pressing what you believe as fact on other people? |
But blatently saying that somebody people REALLY believe is fact...
| Quote: | | The Bible is a storybook. It should not be generally held as fact. |
He said it was a storybook, and then said that it should NOT be held as fact. That's just not right.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:02 pm |
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What is your problem with homosexuals marrying one another? How would you feel if there was a sudden ban on heterosexual marriage?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:04 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | What is your problem with homosexuals marrying one another? How would you feel if there was a sudden ban on heterosexual marriage? |
Is the TRADITION same-sex marriage? No. It's a man vs. a woman. But gay marriage is not this debate at hand. It's civil unions.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:07 pm |
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It was also TRADITION for african-americans and people of other races to not have the same rights as caucasions, too.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:07 pm |
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You don't strike me as much of a traditionalist.
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:21 pm |
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Why is it that the people who don't belive in the bible should be bound to it still? why should they not be able to be happy. I could care less if religous people belieive in the bible but I think its wrong that it's pushed off onto other people. I'm also one of those people who think the bible shouldn't be taken as fact, its a book full of stories written by man, it changes over the years.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:29 pm |
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Goodness, the Bible never changed.
Besides, no one is saying you have to do anything, just stating their reasons.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:31 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | It was also TRADITION for african-americans and people of other races to not have the same rights as caucasions, too. |
Do NOT compare the struggles of African-Americans and others to the denial of gay marriage! This is DIFFERENT.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:01 pm |
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I would disagree with gay people marrying in the traditional sense of the word marriage. More and more people these days don't get married, but have civil unions, why can't gays?
| Theresa wrote: | I'd bet that we can get to at least ten pages of circling,  |
Nah, maybe 3 more and then it'll start in another topic,
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:49 pm |
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Yes yes, its ONLY Religion that is holding gay marriage back. The point is, the defenition of marriage is between a man and a woman. Why can't they just create a new name for it or something? *Sigh*
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:51 pm |
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Because if they have to change the name of an institution to fit them, it'd be discrimination. Don't really see how, as the definition of marriage is clear.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:55 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Because if they have to change the name of an institution to fit them, it'd be discrimination. Don't really see how, as the definition of marriage is clear. |
Yeah it is pretty clear. Thats like Darth Vader wants to be considered a pacifist. He is not "Evil". Well sorry, but you're evil and no matter what you do, you'll never be a pacifist. Same goes for Gay Marriage, unless the definition of marriage is changed.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:13 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | It was also TRADITION for african-americans and people of other races to not have the same rights as caucasions, too. |
Do NOT compare the struggles of African-Americans and others to the denial of gay marriage! This is DIFFERENT. |
Fine, "It was also TRADITION for women not to have the same rights as men before the 1920s." My point was simply that traditions aren't always correct.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:41 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | It was also TRADITION for african-americans and people of other races to not have the same rights as caucasions, too. |
Do NOT compare the struggles of African-Americans and others to the denial of gay marriage! This is DIFFERENT. |
Fine, "It was also TRADITION for women not to have the same rights as men before the 1920s." My point was simply that traditions aren't always correct. |
Sure, traditions aren't always important, and not giving women the same rights as men is wrong. But gay marriage is different.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:45 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | It was also TRADITION for african-americans and people of other races to not have the same rights as caucasions, too. |
Do NOT compare the struggles of African-Americans and others to the denial of gay marriage! This is DIFFERENT. |
Fine, "It was also TRADITION for women not to have the same rights as men before the 1920s." My point was simply that traditions aren't always correct. |
Sure, traditions aren't always important, and not giving women the same rights as men is wrong. But gay marriage is different. |
how so?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:51 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | It was also TRADITION for african-americans and people of other races to not have the same rights as caucasions, too. |
Do NOT compare the struggles of African-Americans and others to the denial of gay marriage! This is DIFFERENT. |
Fine, "It was also TRADITION for women not to have the same rights as men before the 1920s." My point was simply that traditions aren't always correct. |
Sure, traditions aren't always important, and not giving women the same rights as men is wrong. But gay marriage is different. |
how so? |
Not having the right to vote, not being allowed to make decisions, not getting paid the same, etc. Gay marriage is ONE issue from a SACRED tradition held dear. The definition of marriage is NOT something to be changed.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:02 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | It was also TRADITION for african-americans and people of other races to not have the same rights as caucasions, too. |
Do NOT compare the struggles of African-Americans and others to the denial of gay marriage! This is DIFFERENT. |
Fine, "It was also TRADITION for women not to have the same rights as men before the 1920s." My point was simply that traditions aren't always correct. |
Sure, traditions aren't always important, and not giving women the same rights as men is wrong. But gay marriage is different. |
how so? |
Not having the right to vote, not being allowed to make decisions, not getting paid the same, etc. Gay marriage is ONE issue from a SACRED tradition held dear. The definition of marriage is NOT something to be changed. |
Held dear by who?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:06 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | It was also TRADITION for african-americans and people of other races to not have the same rights as caucasions, too. |
Do NOT compare the struggles of African-Americans and others to the denial of gay marriage! This is DIFFERENT. |
Fine, "It was also TRADITION for women not to have the same rights as men before the 1920s." My point was simply that traditions aren't always correct. |
Sure, traditions aren't always important, and not giving women the same rights as men is wrong. But gay marriage is different. |
how so? |
Not having the right to vote, not being allowed to make decisions, not getting paid the same, etc. Gay marriage is ONE issue from a SACRED tradition held dear. The definition of marriage is NOT something to be changed. |
Held dear by who? |
I believe it is about 80% of the country. And it's a tradition that should NOT be changed. It is NOT like we're not letting gays vote or anything more than marriage.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:11 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | I believe it is about 80% of the country. And it's a tradition that should NOT be changed. It is NOT like we're not letting gays vote or anything more than marriage. |
Marriages used to be arranged, sometimes from a very young age. In many cultures, a woman's marriage was arranged by her family as a way of gaining something, whether it be political power by marrying into a rich family, or a new goat for next year's herd.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:59 pm |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | I believe it is about 80% of the country. And it's a tradition that should NOT be changed. It is NOT like we're not letting gays vote or anything more than marriage. |
Marriages used to be arranged, sometimes from a very young age. In many cultures, a woman's marriage was arranged by her family as a way of gaining something, whether it be political power by marrying into a rich family, or a new goat for next year's herd. |
That's a tradition of FORCING somebody into doing something that they don't want, which will last for the rest of their lives. There's a difference
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:21 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | It was also TRADITION for african-americans and people of other races to not have the same rights as caucasions, too. |
Do NOT compare the struggles of African-Americans and others to the denial of gay marriage! This is DIFFERENT. |
Fine, "It was also TRADITION for women not to have the same rights as men before the 1920s." My point was simply that traditions aren't always correct. |
Sure, traditions aren't always important, and not giving women the same rights as men is wrong. But gay marriage is different. |
how so? |
Not having the right to vote, not being allowed to make decisions, not getting paid the same, etc. Gay marriage is ONE issue from a SACRED tradition held dear. The definition of marriage is NOT something to be changed. |
Held dear by who? |
I believe it is about 80% of the country. And it's a tradition that should NOT be changed. It is NOT like we're not letting gays vote or anything more than marriage. |
What about the other 20%?
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:43 pm |
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Do not quote again without editing some out.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:50 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | I believe it is about 80% of the country. And it's a tradition that should NOT be changed. It is NOT like we're not letting gays vote or anything more than marriage. |
What about the other 20%? |
A small minority. And it might be more, it might be less. If anything, it's more.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:07 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | I believe it is about 80% of the country. And it's a tradition that should NOT be changed. It is NOT like we're not letting gays vote or anything more than marriage. |
What about the other 20%? |
A small minority. And it might be more, it might be less. If anything, it's more. |
A small minority? I realize that the population of the united states is somewhere in excess of 280,000,000. 20% of 280 mil is 56,000,000. Yes, its statistically a small number, only 20%. But 56,000,000 people is a lot of people. Thats roughly the population of Chicago, New York, and LA combined and trippled.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:09 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | I believe it is about 80% of the country. And it's a tradition that should NOT be changed. It is NOT like we're not letting gays vote or anything more than marriage. |
What about the other 20%? |
A small minority. And it might be more, it might be less. If anything, it's more. |
A small minority? I realize that the population of the united states is somewhere in excess of 280,000,000. 20% of 280 mil is 56,000,000. Yes, its statistically a small number, only 20%. But 56,000,000 people is a lot of people. Thats roughly the population of Chicago, New York, and LA combined and trippled. |
1. Actually, it's over 300 million people.
2. Those are poll numbers. I think that it's reasonable to assume that it could very well be more than that that want traditional marriage. Especially considering the bias of the polls.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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