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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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 Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:48 pm |
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Yeah well, so people tell me I can't use crusades with church nowadays, is that wrong of them too? 
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Annatar
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 132
Location: oblivion
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| Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:51 pm |
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Dirt, I'm organizing a crusade this wednesday. RSVP ASAP 
Time brings about change. Views have metamorphosed. Shall we not accomodate them?
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:51 pm |
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Yes, you have the freedom to say whatever you would like.
However, according to your own philosophy, it is indeed wrong. Hypocritical I suppose, that is, if you are using the crusades.
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:52 pm |
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| Annatar wrote: | Dirt, I'm organizing a crusade this wednesday. RSVP ASAP
Time brings about change. Views have metamorphosed. Shall we not accomodate them? |
Fo sho!
And sure kev, whatever you say.
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Annatar
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 132
Location: oblivion
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| Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:58 pm |
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Yay Dirt! *crosses fingers* I hope I don't die! 
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:23 pm |
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Dirk and Annatar, please debate about the issue, or you will be removed from this usergroup.
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:40 am |
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Jawohl mein Fuehrer (inside joke to all who think this is offensive )
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:04 pm |
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I'm not sure if I agree with this choice. Sure, I think the pope should be conservative, but not extremely. It seems to only serve as a way to drive people from the church, which is something they definitely don't need right now. I think that priests should be allowed to marry, etc. The only reason they aren't is because the church doesn't want to pay to support their families. But hey, whatever. It's a private organization, they can do whatever they want. I mean, if the shortage of preists doesn't serve as evidence enough that the church needs at least some change....
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:26 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | I'm not sure if I agree with this choice. Sure, I think the pope should be conservative, but not extremely. It seems to only serve as a way to drive people from the church, which is something they definitely don't need right now. I think that priests should be allowed to marry, etc. The only reason they aren't is because the church doesn't want to pay to support their families. But hey, whatever. It's a private organization, they can do whatever they want. I mean, if the shortage of preists doesn't serve as evidence enough that the church needs at least some change.... |
He's not extermely, but just stern and traditional in his view.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:52 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | I'm not sure if I agree with this choice. Sure, I think the pope should be conservative, but not extremely. It seems to only serve as a way to drive people from the church, which is something they definitely don't need right now. I think that priests should be allowed to marry, etc. The only reason they aren't is because the church doesn't want to pay to support their families. But hey, whatever. It's a private organization, they can do whatever they want. I mean, if the shortage of priests doesn't serve as evidence enough that the church needs at least some change.... |
| Quote: | | All ordained ministers of the Latin Church, with the exception of permanent deacons, are normally chosen from among men of faith who live a celibate life and who intend to remain celibate "for the sake of the kingdom of heaven." Called to consecrate themselves with undivided heart to the Lord and to "the affairs of the Lord," they give themselves entirely to God and to men. Celibacy is a sign of the new life to the service of which the Church's minister is consecrated; accepted with a joyous heart celibacy radiantly proclaims the Reign of God. |
-Catechism of the Catholic Church
Not that supporting the family of priests would be something that they could easily do...but that is not the primary reason that priests aren't allowed to marry imo.
Also, although I do not have the exact document with me, our new Pope, said that as Pope, he would not follow his own wishes, or his own beliefs, but place God's will as his one focus, and that he would try not to let his own opinion interfere with whatever God's will may be. That is why I am not worried about him being overly conservative. I also have faith that the cardinals prayed about it and elected the man who they felt could best proclaim the Word of God.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:01 pm |
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Well, in 1059 the marriage of clergy, as well as simony and lay investiture were ended. It just seems like money was the largest issue for the church at the time.
| Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | I'm not sure if I agree with this choice. Sure, I think the pope should be conservative, but not extremely. It seems to only serve as a way to drive people from the church, which is something they definitely don't need right now. I think that priests should be allowed to marry, etc. The only reason they aren't is because the church doesn't want to pay to support their families. But hey, whatever. It's a private organization, they can do whatever they want. I mean, if the shortage of preists doesn't serve as evidence enough that the church needs at least some change.... |
He's not extermely, but just stern and traditional in his view. |
In your opinion, perhaps. But I translate it as extreme. Whatever floats your boat.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:12 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | Well, in 1059 the marriage of clergy, as well as simony and lay investiture were ended. It just seems like money was the largest issue for the church at the time.
| Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | I'm not sure if I agree with this choice. Sure, I think the pope should be conservative, but not extremely. It seems to only serve as a way to drive people from the church, which is something they definitely don't need right now. I think that priests should be allowed to marry, etc. The only reason they aren't is because the church doesn't want to pay to support their families. But hey, whatever. It's a private organization, they can do whatever they want. I mean, if the shortage of preists doesn't serve as evidence enough that the church needs at least some change.... |
He's not extermely, but just stern and traditional in his view. |
In your opinion, perhaps. But I translate it as extreme. Whatever floats your boat. |
You translate it as EXTREME because you're so left-wing.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:14 pm |
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Aaron? Left wing? Haaaardly.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:14 pm |
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Hmmm, not really. The only left-wing ideal I support is same sex marriage. Other than that, I lean right.
I could say that you translate it as "stern and traditional" because you're so right-wing.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:17 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | Hmmm, not really. The only left-wing ideal I support is same sex marriage. Other than that, I lean right.
I could say that you translate it as "stern and traditional" because you're so right-wing. |
No, you really do simply have a left-wing view on things, or at least your spin on things. But whatever.
No, I don't think it's "stern and traditional" because I'm so right-wing. It's because I KNOW what the church is supposed to be, and how the church is NOT supposed to change radically, and if that's extreme, then I don't know what isn't.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:23 pm |
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Okay, feel free to point out any left-wing views of mine, besides same sex marriage (since I've admitted to that).
Well, that's really just your opinion. I see it as extreme because he's proven himself not open to new ideas, or willing to show any change. As I said before: the Pope should be conservative. But not in any extreme way.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:26 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | Okay, feel free to point out any left-wing views of mine, besides same sex marriage (since I've admitted to that).
Well, that's really just your opinion. I see it as extreme because he's proven himself not open to new ideas, or willing to show any change. As I said before: the Pope should be conservative. But not in any extreme way. |
Why does the Pope have to be willing to show change, hmmm? And he's NOT "conservative in an extreme way." He's just not. Besides, he says he'll do what God wants and not what he wants anyways.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:31 pm |
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How about we just let the guy do something first? Sheesh.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:35 pm |
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He has done things before, *cough* Nazi
| Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | Okay, feel free to point out any left-wing views of mine, besides same sex marriage (since I've admitted to that).
Well, that's really just your opinion. I see it as extreme because he's proven himself not open to new ideas, or willing to show any change. As I said before: the Pope should be conservative. But not in any extreme way. |
Why does the Pope have to be willing to show change, hmmm? And he's NOT "conservative in an extreme way." He's just not. Besides, he says he'll do what God wants and not what he wants anyways. |
Change is a good thing, there isn't any progress without it. I could say "He is conservative in an extreme way, he just is." That's just opinion, And HA. They all say that. I'm pretty sure that that's what they said when they started the Spanish Inquisition and Crusades.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:37 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | He has done things before, *cough* Nazi
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Yeeees, heard about that... My grandfather is a devout catholic, and one of the biggest racists I've ever known. Pretty much the only one, really,
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:37 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | He has done things before, *cough* Nazi
| Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | Okay, feel free to point out any left-wing views of mine, besides same sex marriage (since I've admitted to that).
Well, that's really just your opinion. I see it as extreme because he's proven himself not open to new ideas, or willing to show any change. As I said before: the Pope should be conservative. But not in any extreme way. |
Why does the Pope have to be willing to show change, hmmm? And he's NOT "conservative in an extreme way." He's just not. Besides, he says he'll do what God wants and not what he wants anyways. |
Change is a good thing, there isn't any progress without it. I could say "He is conservative in an extreme way, he just is." That's just opinion, And HA. They all say that. I'm pretty sure that that's what they said when they started the Spanish Inquisition and Crusades. |
Supporting Abortion and Gay Marriage is DIFFERENT from changing from the ways of the Crusades and the Inquisition 
And to your NAZI comment? Have you not done research, or read anything here, AT ALL about this man? EVERYONE where he lived was required to be a member of the Hitler Youth movement, and when he had to JOIN THE ARMY, he deserted BECAUSE they went against who he was. Oh, yeah, he's a NAZI alright
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:55 pm |
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I agree, he shouldn't support either Abortion or Gay Marriage, as they both go against Catholicism. Note: I don't support abortion, if that's what was thought. And I was referring to the"he says he'll do what God wants and not what he wants" comment when I went on about the crusades, Sorry for the missunderstanding.
Well, it just seems to me that he would have resisted joining at all, if he totally didn't support it.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:58 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | I agree, he shouldn't support either Abortion or Gay Marriage, as they both go against Catholicism. Note: I don't support abortion, if that's what was thought. And I was referring to the"he says he'll do what God wants and not what he wants" comment when I went on about the crusades, Sorry for the missunderstanding.
Well, it just seems to me that he would have resisted joining at all, if he totally didn't support it. |
The Crusades have been condemned by Pope John Paul II. He prayed for forgiveness for them, too. That was a clouded era, when the priests of the day were in dark times.
But I digress.
Therefore, praytell, what changes would you like?
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:03 pm |
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Well, they've been condemned by the rest of the world, so why not by the pope?
I don't want any changes, I could care less what changes occur. I'd simply prefer to see a Pope more open to it. If things don't change, things go wrong. Look at the dark ages. No advances were made, nothing changed. If you came up with a new idea (ie, the earth is round), you were in danger of being killed.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:57 pm |
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So we change God's standards?
| Theresa wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | He has done things before, *cough* Nazi
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Yeeees, heard about that... My grandfather is a devout catholic, and one of the biggest racists I've ever known. Pretty much the only one, really, |
Difference is in the bible it doesn't mention anything about someone should be a racist, but it does mention you shouldn't practice homosexuality.
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