| Author |
Message |
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
 Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:56 pm |
|
| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
And Link, there is no science to back that the benefits of not having to obey OPEC and rely on foreign oil and to allow for a better economy outway the disadvantages of drilling for oil in 2000 acres.
|
I wasn't talking about obeying OPEC, you dont want to obey OPEC, email your senator with your gripes.
I'm talking about the advantages to drilling vs the disadvantages and impact on the world. If you're going to argue it, give examples. You've already played to dead OPEC, And seeing as how we dont HAVE to rely on them seeing as how we have millions of barrels STORED.
Incase of a DIRE emergency. I don't see that happening right now 
| Republican_Man wrote: | | And Jeremy, it simply is. The Left wingers tend to support the environment more than the economy, and the Right wingers are the opposite. |
That's cause we tend to care more about the world our children are going to have to live in. Right wingers care about big business and trying to make a buck.
I fear that with right wing control we may tear our contry apart and use it as one big economical resource for big business. |
That's how you can spin it
| 4evajaneway wrote: | | So you're saying its okay to cut down trees and kill animals so you can drive your shiny car everywhere instead of walking. You must also support deforestation to build roads through the rainforest, too. |
Do I want to kill of the animals and cut down all the trees? No. Do I support deforestation? Only if it's necessary. Do I support some level of restrictions? Heck yeah. But I wouldn't go as far as the environmentalist wacko view ( ).
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
|
| Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:31 pm |
|
Something we need to realize:
Gas prices are REALLY hurting the average family. Oil is a necessity NOW. Hydrogen Cars aren't going to spring out of nowhere in the next few years, and few will be able to afford them for long after that.
|
|
|
Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
|
| Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:34 pm |
|
| LightningBoy wrote: | Something we need to realize:
Gas prices are REALLY hurting the average family. Oil is a necessity NOW. Hydrogen Cars aren't going to spring out of nowhere in the next few years, and few will be able to afford them for long after that. |
No offense, but you're deluding yourself if you think drilling in the ANWR is going to lower gas prices beyond maybe a penny or two per gallon. Perhaps the average American family would like to take the damn bus or walk once in a while.
|
|
|
LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
|
| Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:39 pm |
|
Perhaps the bus is too far out of the way and walking is too ineffecient. And yes, drilling in alaska will make an impact on Gas prices, otherwise WE WOULDN'T BE DOING IT. I'm all for public tranportation, but it's way too ineffectient how it is.
And again, the average family needs immediate results. That's who the government needs to held, not society's deadbeats, and not corporate crooks (though trickledown is muct more feasible than trickleup). And not the environment. The environment is resiliant, it can adapt to anything.
|
|
|
Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
|
| Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:45 pm |
|
Wow. I'm all for diversity of opinion, but what you're saying is just... ignorant. Gas prices won't be affected by this, and though the environment may continue to exist by strict definition no matter what happens, humans can't live in every environment.
A sidenote for those concerned: I dont want "trickle down" or "trickle up" because both involve rich people getting more money that they don't need.
Another sidenote: The government needs to be held to everybody in the society, and I have no idea where you get the idea that deadbeats are the ones that oppose oil drilling or are in any way even relevant to this argument.
In conclusion, reality is waiting for you whenever you'd like to go visit.
|
|
|
LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
|
| Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:51 pm |
|
Reality is understanding that idealism is not alwaysthe answer.
Ideally, we'd all have hydro cars that fly, and everyone would work for nothing more than self satisfaction. In reality, the middle class average joe who works his ass off to put his kids through school, runs the economy and drives the gears of the ultimate capitalistic machine.
High gas prices are hurting that guy. The poor have no work to go to, and the rich have no problem paying it. That's the point I try to make. We need more oil, supply and demand is the most BASIC economic principle, and it's something you seem to be failing to understand.
Demand for oil = high. (And no, it won't go down any time soon)
Supply of oil = low. (That's why we need to drill more)
Supply matches back up to demand, prices drop.
Reality, meet it.
|
|
|
Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
|
| Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:56 pm |
|
Yeah, you're right. Your only logical error is thinking that the oil they're going to be drilling in the ANWR is going to be enough to impact any prices recognizably. If you think it will, I recommend doing some reserach of your own since you're obviously not going to listen to me. Thy're not drilling to help the average Joe, they're doing it because the fat cats will profit.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:34 pm |
|
| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | Something we need to realize:
Gas prices are REALLY hurting the average family. Oil is a necessity NOW. Hydrogen Cars aren't going to spring out of nowhere in the next few years, and few will be able to afford them for long after that. |
No offense, but you're deluding yourself if you think drilling in the ANWR is going to lower gas prices beyond maybe a penny or two per gallon. Perhaps the average American family would like to take the damn bus or walk once in a while. |
People in America don't want to take the bus. It's a pain, annoying, and here, we don't have one (except for the school bus, but I walk or ride my bike(for excersize, in particular, and money, and I hate the bus if I wanted to go that route).
Otherwise, LB is right, actually.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
|
| Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:17 pm |
|
Ummmm...... have you ever been to chicago or new york? people walk everywhere. And as for the bus being annoying, learn how to deal with it. The average family needs to learn how to accept life and move on.
|
|
|
Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
|
| Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:21 pm |
|
Yeah, how about for those of us in rural areas? I've never seen a bus, or a taxi for that matter, out this far. Many prefer to live in the suburbs instead of being croweded in.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:43 pm |
|
| 4evajaneway wrote: | | Ummmm...... have you ever been to chicago or new york? people walk everywhere. And as for the bus being annoying, learn how to deal with it. The average family needs to learn how to accept life and move on. |
1. Yes, I've been to BOTH cities, and they are helpful there. I see that.
2. I said SCHOOL buses. And I don't think that people should have to take the bus. We are in a FREE MARKET ECONOMY. Allow them the CHOICE to decide how to move around.
3. Good points, Theresa. More and more people aren't living in the cities, and so there aren't really buses there. Besides, you'd be waiting a LONG TIME in areas like that to get on the bus, etc.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
|
| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:00 pm |
|
You miss my point. The people in the very suburban areas where they don't offer a bus, can take their car. However. In the suburban area's around here, gas isn't as expensive as it is in the city. The gas out in oz-town is around $2.15/gallon, as apposed to around $2.50/gallon in the city. And Zeke had a point. This oil drilling isn't going to lower gas prices more than a few cents a gallon. I know that pennies add up to dollars, but its not going to have an instant magical effect on our economy. I do agree that we should drill, but perhaps not the whole 2000 acres. If you say that 2000 acres will bring in 30 billion barrels of oil, than 1000 should bring in around 15 billion. Thats still a lot of oil. If we're going to drill, we should at least allow for some time inbetween.
|
|
|
Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
|
| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:05 pm |
|
Huh. Let me get this straight. Don't drill so that these seven caribou can be free, but take away mans individuality by constructing a government, that while is not calling itself communist, has such ideals? Wow.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
|
|
|
Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
|
| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:25 pm |
|
I think that communism would work in a perfect society, but human laziness will prevent it from working. And I think we shouldn't drill to protect our planet. But we obviously have to.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:29 pm |
|
| 4evajaneway wrote: | | I think that communism would work in a perfect society, but human laziness will prevent it from working. And I think we shouldn't drill to protect our planet. But we obviously have to. |
Laziness, partially. But communism ALSO prevents a person from getting ahead of another, thereby INCREASING the laziness.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
|
| Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:36 pm |
|
Indeed. Why bother if you have no incentive?
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
|
|
|
Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
|
| Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:53 pm |
|
I thought that one of the big reasons for the oil price being high was there wasn't enough refinaries. And then there is not enough oil now, so where will it end?
|
|
|
borgslayer
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 2646
Location: Las Vegas
|
| Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:58 pm |
|
Maybe the only solution is too find other energy sources besides oil. So now we dont have to rely on Saudi Oil for power.
If the United States was short on paper President Bush would probably cut down 60% of U.S. Forest for paper.
Same situation here, the U.S. needs oil so they are going to build refinerys and oil pipelines in Alaska and ruin the natural habitat.
|
|
|
Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
|
| Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:12 pm |
|
I still say we should save it. Then when the rest of the world is out of oil we'll have a monopoly.
|
|
|
Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
|
| Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:25 pm |
|
Thats a good idea....
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:07 am |
|
| borgslayer wrote: | Maybe the only solution is too find other energy sources besides oil. So now we dont have to rely on Saudi Oil for power.
If the United States was short on paper President Bush would probably cut down 60% of U.S. Forest for paper.
Same situation here, the U.S. needs oil so they are going to build refinerys and oil pipelines in Alaska and ruin the natural habitat. |
For the future, yes, we need to find other sources of energy. But for the immediate present, drilling in Alaska is necessary.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
|
| Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:58 am |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: | | borgslayer wrote: | Maybe the only solution is too find other energy sources besides oil. So now we dont have to rely on Saudi Oil for power.
If the United States was short on paper President Bush would probably cut down 60% of U.S. Forest for paper.
Same situation here, the U.S. needs oil so they are going to build refinerys and oil pipelines in Alaska and ruin the natural habitat. |
For the future, yes, we need to find other sources of energy. But for the immediate present, drilling in Alaska is necessary. |
Well, its not going to lower gas prices in the US by that much. So... perhaps we do and perhaps we don't.
|
|
|
Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
|
| Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:00 am |
|
Gas prices right now are simply big business gouging. A gas station can have their prices go up three and four times in one day. Yet they've only paid 1.00/gallon. Same delivery, and they keep raising the price. There's no reason for it except greed.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
|
|
|
Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
|
| Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:47 pm |
|
That's false. Gas stations recieve refined fuel from private distributors, a cost which varies based on the market price. Even when the raw oil cost is the same, the number of stages it goes through in transportation, storage, and refinement increase based on a variety of factors.
|
|
|
Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
|
| Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:55 pm |
|
Really. My father used to deliver gas to the stations. They'd raise the price three and four times before the next delivery was made. Ripping people off.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
|
|
|
|
Search
FAQ
Log in
