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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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 Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:31 pm Connecticut OKs Same-Sex Civil Unions |
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Connecticut OKs Same-Sex Civil Unions
Wednesday, April 20, 2005
HARTFORD, Conn. � Connecticut on Wednesday became the second state to recognize same-sex civil unions, and the first to do so without court pressure.
About an hour after the state Senate sent the legislation to her desk, Gov. M. Jodi Rell (search) signed a bill that will allow thousands of gay and lesbian couples in Connecticut to be given the same rights and obligations as heterosexual couples, but not an actual marriage license.
"The vote we cast today will reverberate around the country," said Sen. Andrew McDonald (search), co-chairman of the legislature's Judiciary Committee, and one of a few openly gay state lawmakers.
Last week, the House of Representatives amended the bill at the governor's urging to define marriage under Connecticut law as existing between one man and one woman.
The Senate gave final legislative approval to the amended bill Wednesday afternoon on a 26-8 vote.
"I have said all along that I believe in no discrimination of any kind and I think that this bill accomplishes that, while at the same time preserving the traditional language that a marriage is between a man and a woman," Rell said after signing the bill into law.
Opponents of civil unions had hoped to persuade Rell, a Republican, to veto the legislation. They believe civil unions are essentially gay marriage, with a different name.
The Family Institute of Connecticut (search) planned a rally for Sunday in opposition to the bill. Brian Brown, the group's executive director, said they will still gather, but with a new focus.
"From now until 2006, our mission will be to let every person know in the state of Connecticut which lawmakers voted to redefine marriage, and which lawmakers voted to protect marriage," he said.
Love Makes a Family, a gay rights organization that wanted legislators pass a gay marriage bill, called civil unions an important step toward protecting the rights of same-sex couples. But Anne Stanback, the group's executive director, said the fight is not over.
"As important as the rights are, this is not yet equality," she said.
Stanback said Love Makes a Family would likely regroup and begin to talk to lawmakers about gay marriage, something she acknowledged will not likely be taken up next session.
The Senate which spent four hours debating an earlier version of the bill earlier this month, spent just an hour discussing the amended legislation.
Some said they were disappointed the House had changed the legislation to define marriage as being between one man and one woman.
"I feel that amendment belittles friends that I hold dear, who are of the same sex, who want to spend their lives together," said Sen. Edith Prague, D-Columbia. "I feel it is belittling to them and I'm sorry that amendment was placed in the House."
But Sen. David Cappiello, D-Danbury, who voted for civil unions earlier this month, said he felt even more comfortable voting for the bill because of the amendment. He said defining marriage highlights the religious and social significance of a marriage between a man and a woman.
In the end, none of the senators changed their votes. Sen. John Kissel, R-Enfield, said the majority of his constituents oppose civil unions and gay marriage. He said some have also questioned why heterosexual couples cannot get a civil union.
"I think that the public is a little bit confused," he said.
Vermont has approved civil unions and neighboring Massachusetts has gay marriage, but those changes came about only after same-sex couples won court battles.
Last summer, seven same-sex filed a lawsuit in Connecticut after being denied marriage licenses. That case has not been resolved, but Connecticut legislators who back the civil unions bill claim they haven't been influenced by it. They said they acted to extend more rights to same-sex couples and their families.
As in past debates on civil unions, the Senate gallery was filled with opponents and proponents of the legislation Wednesday. It was Catholic Concerns Day and many visited the state Capitol wearing buttons that read "Catholics Care" and "Protect Marriage."
Mary Bowler and Diane Shepard of Westbrook watched the vote. The same-sex couple has been together 12 years and watched friends hold commitment ceremonies. But they held off.
"We wanted to wait for the real thing," Bowler said.
When the Senate vote was announced, Shepard excitedly gripped her partner's hand. The two later waited outside the Senate to personally thank McDonald for supporting the bill.
"I have a friend who is a lawyer, and she has said, everyone wants special rights," Bowler said. "I told her, I just want the same ones you have."
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:33 pm |
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Do I like this? No. I am opposed to Civil Unions--but on personal reasons. I do not think that there is any legal reason not to allow them, though, so meh.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:33 pm |
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I hope they all go to hell for it, them sinners. 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:37 pm |
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| Dirt wrote: | | I hope they all go to hell for it, them sinners. |
Enough joking about such things, please. Religion is not something to be toyed with. And although I THINK/EXPECT that that will happen to them, I do NOT wish that gay people go to hell. I don't think most people do, either.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:38 pm |
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Being gay is not a sin sillies  .
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:40 pm |
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I do wish it, and I am now a devoted Christian, so no kidding man.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:42 pm |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Being gay is not a sin sillies . |
Actually, it is. The Church is right on this matter, and you are not.
And I find that hard to believe, Dirt. VERY hard to believe. As a matter of fact, I DON'T. I can't.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:43 pm |
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No it is not. And the church agrees with me. 
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Dirt
Exercise Boy
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 2086
Location: a tree
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:43 pm |
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Well, let's all pray and hope one day you can accept me as your brother.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:45 pm |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | No it is not. And the church agrees with me. |
No, it doesn't agree with you
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:46 pm |
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The church recognizes that people cannot controll whom they are attracted to, which is why being gay is not a sin. In fact, although I don't think it is encouraged, I don't think it finds loving the same sex sinful. The only thing that it states is sinful is intercourse between two (or more) people of the same sex, or anyone for that matter, that are not married.
That is what the Catholic Church says .
Last edited by Puck on Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:46 pm |
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EDIT: What I asked was fulfilled.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:50 pm |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | The church recognizes that people cannot controll whom they are attracted to, which is why being gay is not a sin. In fact, although I don't think it is encouraged, I don't think it finds loving the same sex sinful. The only thing that it states is sinful is intercourse between two (or more) people of the same sex, or anyone for that matter, that are not married.
That is what the Catholic Church says . |
Okay, maybe BEING gay is not a sin, but ACTING on it is, as is gay marriage, etc.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:55 pm |
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Only because the talking heads say so. I don't subscribe to religion because I don't feel the need to have my personal beliefs validated by an organization. People who adopt beliefs simply because they're taught to have them are, I believe, quite weak-minded.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:56 pm |
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| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | Only because the talking heads say so. I don't subscribe to religion because I don't feel the need to have my personal beliefs validated by an organization. People who adopt beliefs simply because they're taught to have them are, I believe, quite weak-minded. |
I see Homosexuality as a sin PERIOD--but that you can only go to hell if you act on it. Plus, I support the War in Iraq. The Church doesn't. I don't follow every bit of church doctrine, like on the death penalty, so...
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:18 pm |
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So indeed. The key is lack of blind acceptance. Those that reflect on, investigate, and personally hold their own beliefs are worthy of praise. Too many people blindly accept the propaganda they are fed by those around them. I will now depart this topic, as I have already made clear my views on homosexuality and legal bonds between homosexual partners.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:29 pm |
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| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | Only because the talking heads say so. I don't subscribe to religion because I don't feel the need to have my personal beliefs validated by an organization. People who adopt beliefs simply because they're taught to have them are, I believe, quite weak-minded. |
*Sigh* Common misconception, we don't follow everything the Church says.
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:50 pm |
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If two people of the same sex love eachother who cares what certin individuls (SP) or a group of people say? People love people to love them not care what others think.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:52 pm |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | If two people of the same sex love eachother who cares what certin individuls (SP) or a group of people say? People love people to love them not care what others think. |
Under that argument, do you support incest? What about a 12 year old student in a relationship with a teacher? They love each other, too.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:57 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Jeff Miller wrote: | | If two people of the same sex love eachother who cares what certin individuls (SP) or a group of people say? People love people to love them not care what others think. |
Under that argument, do you support incest? What about a 12 year old student in a relationship with a teacher? They love each other, too. |
omg you sound like my idiot cousin Matt, Someone says something and he has to ask the stupidist questions. You always resort to the insest and older and younger couples. Once again people should know the limits to relationships. Hell I love Josi but it doesn't mean I'm going to screw a 12 year old. Hey you seem like a smart person, with a nice girlfriend probably shes probably your age around 17 or 18 right? Does she have a younger sister? if so do you want to have intercouse with her? because if you say that about same sex couples people can say that about you since your straight, remember straight isn't always perfect.
(Just so you know and everyone else knows I'm not accusing him of wanting his girlfriends sister if there is one just making a statement simular to the one he made about gays and lesbians.)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:58 pm |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Jeff Miller wrote: | | If two people of the same sex love eachother who cares what certin individuls (SP) or a group of people say? People love people to love them not care what others think. |
Under that argument, do you support incest? What about a 12 year old student in a relationship with a teacher? They love each other, too. |
omg you sound like my idiot cousin Matt, Someone says something and he has to ask the stupidist questions. You always resort to the insest and older and younger couples. Once again people should know the limits to relationships. Hell I love Josi but it doesn't mean I'm going to screw a 12 year old. Hey you seem like a smart person, with a nice girlfriend probably shes probably your age around 17 or 18 right? Does she have a younger sister? if so do you want to have intercouse with her? because if you say that about same sex couples people can say that about you since your straight, remember straight isn't always perfect.
(Just so you know and everyone else knows I'm not accusing him of wanting his girlfriends sister if there is one just making a statement simular to the one he made about gays and lesbians.) |
It's a valid argument. They really love each other, right? Huh?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:01 pm |
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If two people who love eachother know whats right and wrong they should be together than. If its a relationship with someone who is 25 and 12 than they should be stoped.
I'm done on this topic I won't reply to this again. 
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:09 pm |
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In my opinion, it is a mistake to compare the homosexuality controversy to the similar cultural taboos on incest or child-adult relationships. Each issue should be dealt with separately.
In the case of incest, it is only culturally taboo in some cultures. Thus it can be compared to homosexuality in the context that both will change as cultural views on sexual moralities change. However, this does not mean that a person must maintain a consistent stance throughout each issue. For example, one can have a negative view on homosexuality and a positive view on incest simply because they disagree with same-sex intercourse, but do not agree with current cultural taboos on familial relationships.
The child-adult relationship is distant from homosexual relationships. In the case of marriage and civil unions, the subject of dicussion is usually two responsible adults. Responsible is the keyword for today. Many arguments to disallow child-adult sexual relationships centre upon the point that children cannot be relied upon to make responsible sexual decisions. Consequently, the relationship can become one of victimisation. Homosexual relationships are not ones of victimisation (if they exist between two mature adults) because both those who engage in the relationship consent and understand the nature of that consent.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:16 pm |
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What if the kid is proven to be responsible, and it's an honest love? What then?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:22 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | What if the kid is proven to be responsible, and it's an honest love? What then? |
Then the kid, in my opinion, would no longer be a "kid," and would be a mature adult.
Perhaps I should clarify the definition of the word "mature." In the above paragraph and my above post, I was referring to pyschological maturity. However, my argument can still be maintained for physical maturity as well. Homosexual relationships exist between two physically mature adults. Child-adult relationships would (by definition) exist between an adult and a child who has not undergone puberty (thus making them a child). This is wrong because it is not responsible of an adult to engage in sexual relations with someone who is not yet physically mature, as pyschological maturity seldom comes before physical maturity--usually a long time afterward, maybe late 60s  (joke)--and it can be harmful to the psyche of the child.
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