| Your Opinion |
| Agree with how she died |
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33% |
[ 1 ] |
| She should have been euthanized |
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33% |
[ 1 ] |
| She should have lived |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| There wasn't enough hard evidence to make the case for removal of the feeding tube |
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33% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 3 |
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| Author |
Message |
Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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 Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:51 pm |
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You don't know that. My father was in a vegitative state after his stroke. His mind was THERE, but he couldn't tell us what he wanted, or move much. They have no idea if her mind is intact. There is no way to find something like that out. But apparently no one cares.
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:16 pm |
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No one except the horde of people standing with you on this one. But my horde is bigger. Polls show that the majority of Americans think that the right choice has been made. Honestly though, there're plenty of people on both sides of the issue.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:22 pm |
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Last gallup poll had it at 52-48%. I'd say it's pretty damn close. Most are more upset by the government involvement, which is stupid of them. People were asked to write their senators and congressmen, who are supposed to act on their behalf. They did, and now look. Sheesh.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:31 pm |
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Oh, let's not forget how un-informed most are,  Just take a look at some of the stupidity posted here.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:33 pm |
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HAhahahahahahaha oh god T, you kill me!!!
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:34 pm |
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Theresa: No offense, but you're not the information guru here. Arguably the most informed people in the affair are making the conclusions on what action should be taken.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:34 pm |
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| Lord Borg wrote: | | HAhahahahahahaha oh god T, you kill me!!! |
 Was being serious! But, as a service to humanity, ok, 
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Some of us fall by the wayside
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And some of us sail through our troubles
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:37 pm |
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was jokeing at your seriousness
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:21 pm |
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| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | Theresa: No offense, but you're not the information guru here. Arguably the most informed people in the affair are making the conclusions on what action should be taken. |
Very, very arguably. I've appoached a number of people--politically active people--in the past couple weeks who would say, "Yeah. I've heard about it. Since she's in a coma, she probably should be let go..." And then, after hearing about her reactions to stimuli, they entirely change their position. Informed? The mass-media is skewing this horribly.
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:39 pm |
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I'm not talking about the mass media, E. I'm talking about the courts. They've heard the witnesses on both sides and ruled. Appeals courts won't take jurisdiction because there are no legal grounds to. The evidence has all been heard, the decision made. I am willing to call foolish anyone who thinks the court hasn't heard both sides of the story repeatedly.
EDIT: Removed the address to T. Not sure why I put that there...
Last edited by Zeke Zabertini on Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:45 pm |
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Judges are only allowed to rule on evidence presented. Go back to what Greer would initially accept as evidence.
And it doesn't make it right.
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:45 pm |
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What makes something right, T? That it coincides with your personal views?
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:49 pm |
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Oh please. It's morally and ethically wrong. But knowing your POV, and position on these "situations", I don't expect you to agree.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
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And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:51 pm |
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No what she's saying is that Greer only accepted things that are againts terrie's case as evidence
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:53 pm |
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Well that's the trouble, isn't it T? Morals and ethics are determined by the individual. I find this euthanasea perfectly ethical and moral. You do not. You mention that it's because of my point of view, but do not forget to apply that logic to yourself as well. Your morals and ethics are in no way superior to mine.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:55 pm |
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I'm saying that there was clear bias, and Greer's days as a judge are most likely numbered.
I'm going to bow out of this discussion with you, Zeke, as it's already been made explicitly clear that we are coming from entirely different views on this subject. Right now, I'd most likely get angry and say something I'd regret.
[EDIT] I never mentioned anyones views as being superior. Except for those who have the audacity to say that she is no longer a human being. I'm sure you can figure out on what level I place those type of views.
Last edited by Theresa on Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:56 pm |
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Theres no real "Problem" with euthanasea, its how they are letting her die is the problem. well, one of them
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:59 pm |
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From all indications, she feels no pain. Under that premise, I see nothing wrong with the method logically speaking. As for bias on Greer's part, I don't have enough information to comment. If he was truly biased though, I cannot help but think that at least one of the appeals would have succeeded.
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AndrewBullock
The Misguided One
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 2112
Location: Kentucky. (North America)
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| Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:02 am |
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See... this is how the world is today. I for one do not agree with Terri's fate. It's murder.
Why do people see that her death is right? Maybe they see that she'll be in a better place. Maybe they don't care enough as they should.
If we argue like this the Earth is just going to get worse. Soon we'll be back to "Black people are no good. There trash."
I have a feeling we're to late. I mean, people acting on orders are taking people to jail. Others trying to give her water are acting on heart. If the world doesn't know murder... we'll never attone.
I just watched the news. The way she was blinking, her responses... I cried... I could just see that she was suffering without food.
What's wrong with people these days... (Like I have room to talk, but still)
God bless,
~Andrew
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"Our integrity sells for so little, but it is all we really have. It is the very last inch of us. But within that inch we are free"
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:10 am |
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If she weren't feeling pain, she wouldn't be on morphine, nor have had a pain prescription
got that point from a friend
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:14 am |
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AndrewBullock: Where do you draw the line with murder though? Is it murder unless they've killed someone else, or committed many grave crimes? Is it murder only if they don't want to die? Is it murder if it is an unborn child? Are two or all of those occasions not murder? You speak of a slippery slope. I submit to you that the exceptions have already been made. We kill. We are human beings and we kill. We kill other animals, and we kill each other. Those who speak of an absolute moral law often fail to measure up themselves. That great "if," those "excepts" and "buts" have no place in moral law. We all have our own code of ethics, and we try to abide by it, but we cannot always do so. We are flawed, imperfect beings. Terri Schiavo's death may be called mercy or murder depending on who you ask. The perception is all.
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:16 am |
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| Lord Borg wrote: | | If she weren't feeling pain, she wouldn't be on morphine, nor have had a pain prescription. Got that point from a friend. |
Keep in mind: that she cannot feel pain is only a theory. She is incapable of reacting sufficiently to outwardly show if she is in pain. Why take the risk? Giving her morphine ensures that she will not feel pain, whether the theory is correct or not.
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robbiewebster
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 2594
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:10 am |
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the husbands justification for this is that one time she said she didn't want to live this way. but i'll bet that one time in her life she told him that if he ever cheated on her she would divorce him. he has a girlfriend and his own family with her, based on his justification they should be divorced and the parents should have the right to replace the feeding tube.
also she is aware, she doesn't go to the bathroom unless a bedpan is placed underneath her.
but i guess that whatever happens is God's will and it is happening for a reason.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:30 am Terri Schiavo's Husband Plans Autopsy |
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| Quote: |
Terri Schiavo's Husband Plans Autopsy
Tuesday, March 29, 2005
PINELLAS PARK, Fla. � An autopsy will be performed after Terri Schiavo (search) dies to show the extent of her brain damage, her husband's attorney says.
On Monday, Schiavo's 11th day without food or water, supporters of prolonging the woman's life carried their protests to the White House, while the husband's attorney said she looked "peaceful" and had a stuffed toy cat under her arm.
George Felos, the attorney for husband and guardian Michael Schiavo (search), said Monday that the chief medical examiner for Pinellas County, Dr. John Thogmartin, had agreed to perform an autopsy.
He said her husband wants definitive proof showing the extent of her brain damage. Michael Schiavo contends his wife told him years ago she would not want to be kept alive artificially under such circumstances.
An attorney for Schiavo's parents, David Gibbs III, said her family also wants an autopsy. "We would certainly support and encourage an autopsy to be done, with all the unanswered questions," Gibbs said.
Felos said he had visited Schiavo for more than an hour Monday and said she looked "very peaceful. She looked calm."
"I saw no evidence of any bodily discomfort whatsoever," Felos said, although he added her breathing seemed "a little on the rapid side" and her eyes were sunken.
Doctors said Terri Schiavo, 41, would probably die within a week or two when the tube was removed on March 18. She suffered catastrophic brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped for several minutes because of a chemical imbalance.
The parents, Bob and Mary Schindler (search), pressed again for President Bush, Congress and the president's brother, Gov. Jeb Bush (search), to intervene to have the feeding tube reinserted. A small group of supporters protested outside the White House gates.
The Rev. Jesse Jackson planned to visit Tuesday as a guest of the woman's parents.
Bob Schindler repeated his plea that she be kept alive by having her feeding tube reinserted. About 100 protesters used harsh rhetoric and some in the crowd mimicked Nazi soldiers by goose-stepping in front of police. Another eight protesters who tried to bring water into the hospice for Schiavo were arrested for trespassing, bringing the 10-day total of arrests to 46.
"She's still communicating, she's still responding. She's emaciated, but she's responsive," Schindler told reporters after a visit with his daughter, saying that she showed facial expressions when he hugged and kissed her.
As Schiavo drew closer to death, extra police officers blocked the road in front of the Florida hospice, and an elementary school next door was closed so students could avoid the crowd.
President Bush's aides have said they have run out of legal options.
At least two more appeals filed by the state seeking the feeding tube's reconnection were pending, but those challenges were before a Florida appeals court that had rejected the governor's previous efforts in the case.
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Beta6
Commander
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 475
Location: ~*City Of Angels*~
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| Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:21 pm |
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Has she died yet?
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