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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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 Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:54 pm ANWR Oil Drilling: What would you do |
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Given that the world is not going to suddenly stop using oil, and that prices will rise as supply falls:
For those who oppose it, what practical, real-world alternative do you offer?
Hint: Don't even mention solar, wind, geothermal or water power, because all those forms together cannot meet our present (much less future) needs. By that I mean the needs of industry, not just a humble cottage.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:43 pm |
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I'm betting that this will be locked because there is a topic on this at http://www.startrekvoyager.com/viewtopic.php?t=20466  , but I don't want to be accused of back-seat moderating here!
But the thing is, Taz, there IS no solution, at least no low-expensive solution, for this time period.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:44 pm |
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Nuclear?
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:06 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Nuclear? |
"Light-water" reactors like our current generation are unacceptable, due to waste, inefficient use of fuel, construction costs, and operating risks. That's why no new plant has come on line in the US in 30 years.
The pebble-bed reactor shows some promise, but a reactor system that is inherently safe and capable of recycling its binder (the non-radioactive part of the fuel) is needed. Oil will have to get way more expensive before this technology will be "developed".
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:23 pm |
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Fusion? We ever get that down, and all the problems are solved.
For now, drill ANWR until it looks like swiss cheese.
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:03 am |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | Fusion? We ever get that down, and all the problems are solved.
For now, drill ANWR until it looks like swiss cheese. |
Confined plasma fusion has made great strides, and is 99.9% garaunteed to work - eventually. It is also 99.9% certain to take another 20 years to come online, and another 10 or 20 to become widespread.
"Focus fusion" (Z-pinched plasmoid-based) has great promise, but has not been demonstrated yet. If one tenth of the (relatively meager) investment in confined-plasma research were diverted to this, I think it could be developed in 5 years or less. It uses faily simple and low-cost technology and could be scaled down to provide the decentralized power we need, making long-haul transmission lines unnecessary.
Also, the clean, cheap, nearly limitless power of fusion is the only way to make the "hydrogen economy" really work.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:14 am |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | Oil will have to get way more expensive before this technology will be "developed". |
Then it seems to me that the way to get alternative energy sources developed is simple . . . develop a massive global conspiracy that drives up the price of oil. 
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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| Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:15 am |
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I don't think a conspiracy is going to be needed in the next few years, unless there's something big oil isn't telling us. The drilling of oil in Alaska isn't going to be quick enough or produce enough oil to offset the global demand for oil in the coming years.
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:17 am |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | | webtaz99 wrote: | | Oil will have to get way more expensive before this technology will be "developed". |
Then it seems to me that the way to get alternative energy sources developed is simple . . . develop a massive global conspiracy that drives up the price of oil. |
Obviously that conspiracy is already going on, but for a different reason.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:56 pm |
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We're going to run out of oil eventually anyway, either before or after it and other industrial waste has polluted our planet so badly that we can't live on it normally anymore. Why draw more? The faster we run out, the faster companies and governments will find cleaner alternatives. If you want a real conspiracy to chew on though, try to find out why oil companies are systematically buying up companies that make hydroelectric and wind power facilities. Perhaps they're trying to block out their competition, or perhaps they're just preparing to keep their business when the wells finally run dry. Hmm...
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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| Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:59 pm |
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I personally think it's both. They're not stupid
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:22 pm |
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| Seven of Nine wrote: | | I personally think it's both. They're not stupid |
Exactly. The point is that
1) They can jack up the price on those sources to keep pace with oil. The idea of competition is dead in the corporate world.
2) They can claim to be "doing something about our dependence on foreign oil".
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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