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Jemah
Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 209
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 Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:18 pm |
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aww.. theresa, you're lucky! you have your own personal cheerleader. how sweet. you know, george bush was a cheerleader as well! 
| Quote: | | Exactly. Why can't we, again, give our troops the benefit of the doubt? They are in HARMS WAY. They have to do what they can for security. |
yes and the italians were in harms way when they were shot at.
| Quote: | | I know! Jemah, forgive me, but your arguments are just RIDICULOUS. |
well then provide your own arguments! i would like to critique yours as you have mine. 
| Quote: | | Jemah, your arguments are just not making any sense to me. |
hooked on phonics? 
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:21 pm |
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| Jemah wrote: | | what do you expect? when the united states goes around like it's the greatest thing out there attacking whomever they please, they're bound to draw critisism. the us doesn't have much favor in the world right now, especially after the 2004 election. not much favor especially from a country where one of their people was killed by us soldiers. 3-400 rounds.. can you say overkill? |
We do? We attack randomly, and act like we're the greatest? Wow. Or maybe that's maybe just your perception? Name one country we've attacked in the manner you spoke of? Iraq was the first pre-emptive strike in I don't know how long. And Saddam was a threat, whether you want to admit it or not. Even the Iraqi's say as much. *now waits for the "US puppet democratic government response*
As for the 3-400 rounds, do you know how many bullets a second the weapons fire? We don't even know if it was standard issue AK-47's.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:22 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Jemah wrote: | | what do you expect? when the united states goes around like it's the greatest thing out there attacking whomever they please, they're bound to draw critisism. the us doesn't have much favor in the world right now, especially after the 2004 election. not much favor especially from a country where one of their people was killed by us soldiers. 3-400 rounds.. can you say overkill? |
We do? We attack randomly, and act like we're the greatest? Wow. Or maybe that's maybe just your perception? Name one country we've attacked in the manner you spoke of? Iraq was the first pre-emptive strike in I don't know how long. And Saddam was a threat, whether you want to admit it or not. Even the Iraqi's say as much. *now waits for the "US puppet democratic government response*
As for the 3-400 rounds, do you know how many bullets a second the weapons fire? We don't even know if it was standard issue AK-47's. |
EXACTLY. The thing is, Theresa, he can't. We have NEVER gone to war or taken ANY military action and done what he is accusing our troops of doing. He won't be able to do it, as no one can. It's simply not true.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jemah
Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 209
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:49 pm |
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one unjust bloodthirsty war which has created discord and malace is enough. 
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:54 pm |
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| Jemah wrote: | | one unjust bloodthirsty war which has created discord and malace is enough. |
Not everyone thinks it was unjust,  Especially those freed.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
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And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:58 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Jemah wrote: | | one unjust bloodthirsty war which has created discord and malace is enough. |
Not everyone thinks it was unjust, Especially those freed. |
Yes. How is a war that FREES people from tyranny and a ruthless, evil dictator that
-Put people (Men, women, and children alike) into Rape Rooms and Torture Chambers (Remember the Abu Grahaib scandle? Try the prison under SADDAM control)
-Brutally whipped his people
-Gassed his own people
-Sent out assassines to kill anyone who spoke of a family member that was killed (an Iraqi COUNCILWOMAN FROM BAGHDAD spoke this to me; she couldn't talk about her dead brother)
-Put people in plastic body shredders (yes, children too)
-Raped and tortured children in front of their parents and vice-versa.
-He also oppressed his people.
Now tell me: having stopped this, HOW is this an unjust war?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:02 pm |
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Actually, I'd prefer we drifted back on topic, thank you.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:25 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Actually, I'd prefer we drifted back on topic, thank you. |
Right, sorry. But did you know, Theresa, that that newspaper is an anti-American COMMUNIST paper? No wonder she's saying this was intentional...
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:31 pm |
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Yeah, I was aware. And they showed pics of the road block on the news again tonight, so that discounts the "no road block" statement.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
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Jemah
Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 209
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:34 pm |
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yeah.. communists are so evil.. hahahaha!
there was a road block. it doesn't justify a killing though.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:37 pm |
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| Jemah wrote: | yeah.. communists are so evil.. hahahaha!
there was a road block. it doesn't justify a killing though. |
What justifies the killing is the situation, and how they didn't follow the procedures. The troops HAD to do what they did.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:39 pm |
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| Jemah wrote: | yeah.. communists are so evil.. hahahaha!
there was a road block. it doesn't justify a killing though. |
Actually, failing to stop for a road block in a place like that, given current circumstances, yes, it does justify a killing. You really think that the soldiers wanted to kill someone? That they were just out, and going to shoot whomever came along? Really. What a broad brush you use.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:40 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Jemah wrote: | yeah.. communists are so evil.. hahahaha!
there was a road block. it doesn't justify a killing though. |
Actually, failing to stop for a road block in a place like that, given current circumstances, yes, it does justify a killing. You really think that the soldiers wanted to kill someone? That they were just out, and going to shoot whomever came along? Really. What a broad brush you use. |
Oh, but he DOES, it seems. People like him always pick and choose the bad things and declare that that is the sentiment over there!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:43 pm |
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People like him? What, exactly does that mean? I understand that it seems clear that he is going to think what he wants regardless of any facts. I seriously doubt he'd change his mind if a massive cache of WMD's were found in the next 20 minutes. Odds are it would be, "the US planted them". But still, let's steer away from the stereotyping, ok? Very few of us here actually know the other well enough to make statements like that.
Thanks.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:11 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | People like him? What, exactly does that mean? I understand that it seems clear that he is going to think what he wants regardless of any facts. I seriously doubt he'd change his mind if a massive cache of WMD's were found in the next 20 minutes. Odds are it would be, "the US planted them". But still, let's steer away from the stereotyping, ok? Very few of us here actually know the other well enough to make statements like that.
Thanks. |
I don't think it's stereotyping to say "people like him." I did not say Liberal. I did not say Democrat. I did not say Socialist. I said "people like him," as in people that do things like he does.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:15 pm |
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Unless you're telepathic, you don't know. So please, just do as your asked.
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And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Jemah
Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 209
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:33 pm |
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it's alright. i understand.  no hard feelings.
anyway, if weapons of mass destruction were found tomorrow, i'd probably adjust my views. and no, i don't think those soldiers wanted to kill that person.. and i'm sure they feel guilty. i just dont like any of the killing that's happening in the middle east. 
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:47 pm |
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^Oh look, we agree!
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Some of us fall by the wayside
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And some have to live with our scars
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:39 am |
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http://www.startrekvoyager.com/viewtopic.php?t=20475
^Borgslayer's article.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:35 pm |
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| Jemah wrote: | | one unjust bloodthirsty war which has created discord and malace is enough. |
Is it unjust to depose a genocidal maniac from his dictatorship of a people which he gained through assassination?
If the coalition troops are "bloodthirsty", why do they take such care to prevent collateral damage?
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:40 pm |
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| Jemah wrote: | | not when they kill innocents. and pacifism is better than being bloodthirsty. |
It's not being "bloodthirsty" to protect yourself and perform your duty.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:36 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Theresa wrote: | | Actually, I'd prefer we drifted back on topic, thank you. |
Right, sorry. But did you know, Theresa, that that newspaper is an anti-American COMMUNIST paper? No wonder she's saying this was intentional... |
Communist being the big bad thing?
I'll bet you anything this woman is a Leninist. Maybe even a Stalinist or Maoist, and if she is, her opinions are such that even I, a Communist, will not agree to them.
According to most sources, there was indeed a roadblock, and they were indeed warned. They should've stopped, but didnt. And then they got fired upon, and thats the way it works. This is war. The soldiers could've incapacitated the vehicle, I suppose...But considering the circumstances, I dont think they soldiers can be blamed. Perhaps some minor punishment is in order, but nothing too harsh, because essentially, I believe it was my "comrade" that was at fault.
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"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:25 pm |
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| Captain Dappet wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Theresa wrote: | | Actually, I'd prefer we drifted back on topic, thank you. |
Right, sorry. But did you know, Theresa, that that newspaper is an anti-American COMMUNIST paper? No wonder she's saying this was intentional... |
Communist being the big bad thing?
I'll bet you anything this woman is a Leninist. Maybe even a Stalinist or Maoist, and if she is, her opinions are such that even I, a Communist, will not agree to them.
According to most sources, there was indeed a roadblock, and they were indeed warned. They should've stopped, but didnt. And then they got fired upon, and thats the way it works. This is war. The soldiers could've incapacitated the vehicle, I suppose...But considering the circumstances, I dont think they soldiers can be blamed. Perhaps some minor punishment is in order, but nothing too harsh, because essentially, I believe it was my "comrade" that was at fault. |
Not necessarily are communists bad (you sure aren't), but it does show something when a Communist writes something like this. A premature judgement? You can think so, it's justified, but I don't. I apologize if this is stereotyping I'll get off the topic, so as to not do so anymore...
But I agree with your last paragraph.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jemah
Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 209
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| Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:39 pm |
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i'm a communist. don't hate!
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:45 pm |
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| Jemah wrote: | i highly doubt many doctors and lawyers are in iraq. the great majority of soldiers are there because of a lack of college education.
they become killers after being there for a while.. and in many cases, (thanks to the mess this "war" has created), they're there for much longer than they had expected. they do become less human i would imagine as time draws on. |
I VERY STRONGLY suggest you do not say that to any soldiers when they get back.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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