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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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 Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:22 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | I somewhat agree with that. I don't exactly think we pose a threat, but I think our actions could be interpreted as such. I also think that our actions are speaking louder than our words, and if other nations interpret our actions as threats, maybe we do pose a threat. Do you get what I mean? |
I don't think you understand what you mean since in the other topic about the biggest threat you clearly said:
| Quote: | | I think the united states is the biggest threat. |
These two statements clearly contradict each other.
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:26 pm |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | 4evajaneway wrote: | | I somewhat agree with that. I don't exactly think we pose a threat, but I think our actions could be interpreted as such. I also think that our actions are speaking louder than our words, and if other nations interpret our actions as threats, maybe we do pose a threat. Do you get what I mean? |
I don't think you understand what you mean since in the other topic about the biggest threat you clearly said:
| Quote: | | I think the united states is the biggest threat. |
These two statements clearly contradict each other. |
No, I don't think you understand what I mean. We're the biggest threat because other nations perceive our actions as a threat.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:28 pm |
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Well its not our faults that nations perceive us as a threat. We have the right to defend ourselves. These other nations better stop looking at the US, which they fear and hate(Not because of Iraq, but because of the Past), and start looking at the terrorist who want to kill them.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:09 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | Well its not our faults that nations perceive us as a threat. We have the right to defend ourselves. These other nations better stop looking at the US, which they fear and hate(Not because of Iraq, but because of the Past), and start looking at the terrorist who want to kill them. |
I know, really. We try to spread freedom, no one else does. We're evil. And Theresa, Janeway, and Founder, you're right on all these points.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:13 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | Well its not our faults that nations perceive us as a threat. We have the right to defend ourselves. These other nations better stop looking at the US, which they fear and hate(Not because of Iraq, but because of the Past), and start looking at the terrorist who want to kill them. |
Actually it is our fault, because I see our actions as threatening and I'm an American. I can understand where they're comming from, maybe we should try to explain ourselves once and awhile... just a thought... but don't take my word for it, I'm just a stuck up, narrow minded, sterotypical american. 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:14 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | Well its not our faults that nations perceive us as a threat. We have the right to defend ourselves. These other nations better stop looking at the US, which they fear and hate(Not because of Iraq, but because of the Past), and start looking at the terrorist who want to kill them. |
Actually it is our fault, because I see our actions as threatening and I'm an American. I can understand where they're comming from, maybe we should try to explain ourselves once and awhile... just a thought... but don't take my word for it, I'm just a stuck up, narrow minded, sterotypical american. |
Uh, we HAVE explained ourselves, but it's just not welcomed by the anti-Semetic folks out there, and those that just hate the fact that the US is so powerful--it's a jealousy factor.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:17 pm |
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Its a jealousy factor? *dies laughing* You have no idea how hard I laughed when I saw that. I almost fell out of my chair. Its more like a FEAR issue that we're going to turn and nuke them off the face of the earth....
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:38 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | Its a jealousy factor? *dies laughing* You have no idea how hard I laughed when I saw that. I almost fell out of my chair. Its more like a FEAR issue that we're going to turn and nuke them off the face of the earth.... |
Fear? I agree. They are scared of us. Which is stupid, when we are out there fighting terrorists. Explain ourselves? What needs ot be explained exactly?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:39 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | 4evajaneway wrote: | | Its a jealousy factor? *dies laughing* You have no idea how hard I laughed when I saw that. I almost fell out of my chair. Its more like a FEAR issue that we're going to turn and nuke them off the face of the earth.... |
Fear? I agree. They are scared of us. Which is stupid, when we are out there fighting terrorists. Explain ourselves? What needs ot be explained exactly? |
I suppose it's a combination of the two, but you're right, Founder.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:47 pm |
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I really don't think its jealousy. I think its fear. Lets say, I was holding a gun to your head, would you be afraid of me, or would you be jealous of me?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:48 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | I really don't think its jealousy. I think its fear. Lets say, I was holding a gun to your head, would you be afraid of me, or would you be jealous of me? |
But are we holding a gun to their heads? NO.
And part of it IS jealousy. They are JEALOUS as well about our power. That's why Chirac wants the EU to have such power--to rival the US.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:49 pm |
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We understand what you are trying to say. Our point is that we are not "holding a gun up to" anyone's head. We are defending ourselves from a very real threat. The other nations should stop acting like we're terrorizing them. The problem stems from the Iraq War. They saw how easily we invaded the country and took over. They are SCARED that we will do it to them. The thing is that they should not be scared. We won't do anything like that.
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:50 pm |
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Jealousy does play a role, but so does the authoritative stance we take with the rest of the world. The United States does not, in my opinion, have the right to declare itself the moral compass and police force of the globe. Still, even if we curled up into a little ball and never did anything again, as long as we were number one there would be plenty of people who'd hate us just for that. So in conclusion, you're both right. You can keep arguing now.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:51 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | We understand what you are trying to say. Our point is that we are not "holding a gun up to" anyone's head. We are defending ourselves from a very real threat. The other nations should stop acting like we're terrorizing them. The problem stems from the Iraq War. They saw how easily we invaded the country and took over. They are SCARED that we will do it to them. The thing is that they should not be scared. We won't do anything like that. |
Well, yeah, you're right. It's unfortunate that the majority of Europeans do not see the threat of terrorism, etc. Only the US does. And only the US is leading in the fight against it. And only the US is leading the fight for freedom. But they ARE jealous of our power, too.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:52 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | 4evajaneway wrote: | | I really don't think its jealousy. I think its fear. Lets say, I was holding a gun to your head, would you be afraid of me, or would you be jealous of me? |
But are we holding a gun to their heads? NO.
And part of it IS jealousy. They are JEALOUS as well about our power. That's why Chirac wants the EU to have such power--to rival the US. |
What power are you speaking of?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:54 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | 4evajaneway wrote: | | I really don't think its jealousy. I think its fear. Lets say, I was holding a gun to your head, would you be afraid of me, or would you be jealous of me? |
But are we holding a gun to their heads? NO.
And part of it IS jealousy. They are JEALOUS as well about our power. That's why Chirac wants the EU to have such power--to rival the US. |
What power are you speaking of? |
Our power. We went in and beat two nations in war easily. We are the most economically powerful nation in the world (that IS true, despite the fact that the dollar is less than the Euro). We have the most powerful weapons systems. We ARE powerful. And they are both scared and jealous of this.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:00 pm |
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Yes, we beat two nations in war easily. It was esentially them throwing rocks at us, while we had machine guns and tanks. If we are so economically powerful, why do we have such unemployment problems? If we have the most powerful weapons, why are we so afraid of other nations weapons? Aren't we being a little full of ourselves?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:03 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | Yes, we beat two nations in war easily. It was esentially them throwing rocks at us, while we had machine guns and tanks. If we are so economically powerful, why do we have such unemployment problems? If we have the most powerful weapons, why are we so afraid of other nations weapons? Aren't we being a little full of ourselves? |
1. 5.2% unemployment, now. That's the lowest it's been in YEARS. We do NOT have a huge unemployment problem.
2. They were not "throwing rocks at us." They had quality weaponry, and blasted us with terrorism too.
3. We are afraid for the security of us and the world. If there is a threat to us, just because we are powerful does not mean that we should not be concerned. And we are not being �full of ourselves.� Liberals like you just like to deny it.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:12 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | Yes, we beat two nations in war easily. It was esentially them throwing rocks at us, while we had machine guns and tanks. If we are so economically powerful, why do we have such unemployment problems? If we have the most powerful weapons, why are we so afraid of other nations weapons? Aren't we being a little full of ourselves? |
Heh . . . 
| Snidley Whiplash wrote: | | That's not fair! They've got rocks, and all we've got are these puny machine guns! |
Most anti-American sentiment is not out of jealousy, it is out of a mixture of fear, resentment, and confusion.
Yes, the U.S. is a great place to live. There is no denying that it has one of the highest standards of living in what we call the 'civilized world'. It has technology, a strong economy, and relatively little social unrest. Still, it has many, many problems, as with any nation. 
The U.S.'s recent actions have effectively alienated it from the rest of the world. America has made several controversial decisions, and not everyone is happy. That is the reason for anti-American sentiment.
Oh, and the NHL Lockout doesn't help either.
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:13 pm |
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THANK YOU!!
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:32 pm |
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I think we all agree its not jealousy. 
I understand why we are hated, but the reasons are not enough to generate so much hatred against us. We didn't do what everyone else wanted to do. Boo-f*****g-hoo. Its not our faults that half of these countires made dealings with a brutal tyrant who gave them cheap oil. (The US is guilty of that as well, but we don't have hatred for ya'll doing it). You are right HH. Thats why they hate us, because of the choices we made. I just don't understand how everyone else can make a contreverial choice and its swept under the rug. We do it, its a HUGE travesty.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:35 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | I think we all agree its not jealousy.
I understand why we are hated, but the reasons are not enough to generate so much hatred against us. We didn't do what everyone else wanted to do. Boo-f*****g-hoo. Its not our faults that half of these countires made dealings with a brutal tyrant who gave them cheap oil. (The US is guilty of that as well, but we don't have hatred for ya'll doing it). You are right HH. Thats why they hate us, because of the choices we made. I just don't understand how everyone else can make a contreverial choice and its swept under the rug. We do it, its a HUGE travesty. |
No. I know that a factor of this IS jealousy.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:58 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | I just don't understand how everyone else can make a contreverial choice and its swept under the rug. We do it, its a HUGE travesty. |
It's the 'celebrity factor'. The U.S. is a celebrity nation: every other nation watches what the U.S. does. Just as the actions of celebrities are scrutinized closely, so are those of celebrity nations.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:16 pm |
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The US has been called upon for literally generations to "police the world". Our troops have been heavily used when the UN feels it justified. The US takes a stand on it's own, and we're trying to, ha, "police the world". It's the same story all over again. We aren't to be a sovreign nation, we are to let the rest of the world rule us. Sorry, not the way it works.
And I really like the "I don't like that your so powerful" line. I mean, come on, you can be, too. No one handed us anything, so don't expect it to be handed to you.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:40 pm |
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| 4evajaneway wrote: | | Yes, we beat two nations in war easily. It was esentially them throwing rocks at us, while we had machine guns and tanks. If we are so economically powerful, why do we have such unemployment problems? If we have the most powerful weapons, why are we so afraid of other nations weapons? Aren't we being a little full of ourselves? |
A powerful economy does not mean that everyone is employed. Communism tries to keep everyone employed, and it has been shown to be a losing game. If the US government would make it less rather than more profitable to export jobs, we would only have the unemployment due to peple being too lazy to work.
Having such a powerful economy, the powers that be stand to lose the most from the economic repercussions of being attacked; that's why "we" are so afraid of other nations' weapons.
And being a little full of ourselves is a national tradition, going back to before we were a nation.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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