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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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 Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:35 pm |
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The first quote is indeed a presumption, but you can presume quite alot from the kind of displays that Republican_Man puts on. I guess the same can be said about most people.
The second? Why I'm afraid you falter in this one. For you see, unless he has since edited his posts, RM says 'I don't dislike them.' first of all. And in his next post he says, 'Sure, I don't like them too much.'
By the way, nice avatar. I could write a few presumptuous things about that, too.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:40 pm |
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If it hasn't occurred to you, we could make some presumptuous statements about you, Kyre, with your repeated dislike of American policies, ideals, and leadership. So...hm, let's see...ah, yes! You hate all Americans now. That's right. You hate us.
That was sarcasm, used to demonstrate a point, to be clear. I'm not saying you do...though, I do wonder. It's no more presumptuous than you saying RM hates French people.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:40 pm |
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| Kyre wrote: | The first quote is indeed a presumption, but you can presume quite alot from the kind of displays that Republican_Man puts on. I guess the same can be said about most people.
The second? Why I'm afraid you falter in this one. For you see, unless he has since edited his posts, RM says 'I don't dislike them.' first of all. And in his next post he says, 'Sure, I don't like them too much.'
By the way, nice avatar. I could write a few presumptuous things about that, too. |
Bah to the last thing.
However, I am not laying out my point of view well enough, so if I may be permitted to explain my perspective in what I really believe:
-I don't like their anti-American, Liberal mentality
-I don't like some of the things that they do towards Americans (these protests of such sort, etc)
Otherwise, I really have nothing against the PEOPLE. Just the government. And the fact that they elected this government in, but then again, that fits in with the 1st reason up there.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:47 pm |
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| Kyre wrote: | | By the way, nice avatar. I could write a few presumptuous things about that, too. |
If you were to presume that I find it amusing, nothing more, and perhaps relevant to our conversation, you might be correct.  
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:18 am |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Kyre wrote: |
I suppose you hate mostly everyone outside of the continent you live on.
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| Kyre wrote: |
You can deny it if you wish, but I still believe you do, although there is no certainty in that and I suppose I did come across quite harsh in that last post. Nevertheless, you did just admit to not liking the French, when in your previous post you said quite the opposite. |
Those are perhaps the most presumptuous and ignorant things that have been said in this topic so far. |
Its Kyre what do you expect? He/She loves to bash America. Its sad really. He has no life and hides behind his computer to bash us. When in real life if he approached an American, he would be too cowardly to say anything.
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:01 am |
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| Founder wrote: | | Its Kyre what do you expect? He/She loves to bash America. Its sad really. He has no life and hides behind his computer to bash us. When in real life if he approached an American, he would be too cowardly to say anything. |
How can I resist such sweet baiting?
What I 'bash' is America's foreign policy. To my knowledge I have never said anything derogatory about your taxes, social security, health service, transport, lifestyles etc
The only things which I have, quite vocally, disagreed with, are things which affect the entire globe: Bush himself, military tactics, environmental policies. These are things I genuinely worry about, so I have every right to argue them. If I ever start nagging about Bush's decision to raise taxes on electrical goods, feel free to take a swipe at me. I shall not retaliate.
As far as hiding behind my computer? Well, this is not the first time I have had to explain my online behaviour. The anonymity of the internet is something which affects everyone to some degree, at least. I wont deny that it does the same to me.
But certainly, if I were to see you in the street, Founder, you would get an earful. Unless of course you had a gun.
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Five - seveN
Rear Admiral
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 3567
Location: Shadow Moon
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| Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:17 pm |
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Which most of our beloved Americans have,
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:26 pm |
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Actually, most Americans don't carry or have weapons.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:42 pm |
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| Kyre wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | Its Kyre what do you expect? He/She loves to bash America. Its sad really. He has no life and hides behind his computer to bash us. When in real life if he approached an American, he would be too cowardly to say anything. |
How can I resist such sweet baiting?
What I 'bash' is America's foreign policy. To my knowledge I have never said anything derogatory about your taxes, social security, health service, transport, lifestyles etc
The only things which I have, quite vocally, disagreed with, are things which affect the entire globe: Bush himself, military tactics, environmental policies. These are things I genuinely worry about, so I have every right to argue them. If I ever start nagging about Bush's decision to raise taxes on electrical goods, feel free to take a swipe at me. I shall not retaliate.
You know if you actually did that, then I wouldn't care. But attacking RM has NOTHING to do with the things you described. Its ridiculous that you attack him for disliking anti-American sentiment in France. Hes AMERICAN. The Left will lay down and take it, some even agree with the French(that are against us, not all of them are). But he isn't on the Left. I don't understand why people keep yelling at us about disliking people who dislike us. Thats not the point of our conversation. The point is you aren't discussing foreign policy, you're simply trying to "annoy" RM by accusing him of being a French hater. I understand that the other topics affect you and wherever your from. Thats why I don't have grief when you argue about them, but you haven't been aruging about, Bush, foreign policy, enviornment, etc etc etc.
As far as hiding behind my computer? Well, this is not the first time I have had to explain my online behaviour. The anonymity of the internet is something which affects everyone to some degree, at least. I wont deny that it does the same to me.
I guess im kinda a hypocrite, because Im doing the same thing. Although I am getting into politics when I grow older and have a chance to b***h at the whole World without a computer. 
But certainly, if I were to see you in the street, Founder, you would get an earful. Unless of course you had a gun. |
Wise choice...
| Five - seveN wrote: | | Which most of our beloved Americans have, |
We can't have guns now? Soon you're gonna complain that we use toilet paper.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:04 pm |
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| Five - seveN wrote: | | Which most of our beloved Americans have, |
| Quote: | | A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the securi ty of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall NOT be infringed. |
We have 17 guns at my grandpa's by the way . I beleive we have used to have one in the house, but we got rid of it.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:49 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | Kyre wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | Its Kyre what do you expect? He/She loves to bash America. Its sad really. He has no life and hides behind his computer to bash us. When in real life if he approached an American, he would be too cowardly to say anything. |
How can I resist such sweet baiting?
What I 'bash' is America's foreign policy. To my knowledge I have never said anything derogatory about your taxes, social security, health service, transport, lifestyles etc
The only things which I have, quite vocally, disagreed with, are things which affect the entire globe: Bush himself, military tactics, environmental policies. These are things I genuinely worry about, so I have every right to argue them. If I ever start nagging about Bush's decision to raise taxes on electrical goods, feel free to take a swipe at me. I shall not retaliate.
You know if you actually did that, then I wouldn't care. But attacking RM has NOTHING to do with the things you described. Its ridiculous that you attack him for disliking anti-American sentiment in France. Hes AMERICAN. The Left will lay down and take it, some even agree with the French(that are against us, not all of them are). But he isn't on the Left. I don't understand why people keep yelling at us about disliking people who dislike us. Thats not the point of our conversation. The point is you aren't discussing foreign policy, you're simply trying to "annoy" RM by accusing him of being a French hater. I understand that the other topics affect you and wherever your from. Thats why I don't have grief when you argue about them, but you haven't been aruging about, Bush, foreign policy, enviornment, etc etc etc.
As far as hiding behind my computer? Well, this is not the first time I have had to explain my online behaviour. The anonymity of the internet is something which affects everyone to some degree, at least. I wont deny that it does the same to me.
I guess im kinda a hypocrite, because Im doing the same thing. Although I am getting into politics when I grow older and have a chance to b***h at the whole World without a computer.
But certainly, if I were to see you in the street, Founder, you would get an earful. Unless of course you had a gun. |
Wise choice...
| Five - seveN wrote: | | Which most of our beloved Americans have, |
We can't have guns now? Soon you're gonna complain that we use toilet paper. |
EXACTLY, Founder. EXACTLY. If he says that I hate France, he hates America. And from what I've really seen, it DOES look like he really dislikes America. But unlike Kyre and Defiant in their assurtion of me hating France, I'm going to say that I could be wrong.
And yes, it's a flat-out misinterpretation of America to say that we all have guns. As far as I know, the only person in my family (a large family) that has a gun WAS my Grandpa. No one has them anymore, though, I believe.
But yes, what's wrong with owning a gun, as long as you don't use it to harm another human being, etc?
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:38 pm |
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| Quote: | Creed
by Hal Borland
I am an American: That's the way we put it, simply, without any swagger, without any brag, in those four plain words.
We speak them softly, just to ourselves.
We roll them on the tongue, touching every syllable, getting the feel of them, the enduring flavor.
We speak them humbly, thankfully, reverently: I am an American.
They are more than words, really. They are the sum of the lives of a vast multitude of men and women and wide-eyed children.
They are a manifesto to mankind; speak those four words anywhere in the world -- yes, anywhere -- and those who hear will recognize their meaning.
They are a pledge. A pledge that stems from a document which says: "When in the course of human events," and goes on from there.
A pledge to those who dreamed that dream before it was set to paper, to those who have lived it since, and died for it.
Those words are a covenant with a great host of plain Americans, Americans who put their share of meaning into them.
Listen, and you can hear the voices echoing through them, words that sprang white-hot from bloody lips, scornful lips, lips a tremble with human pity:
"Don't give up the ship! Fight her till she dies... Damn the torpedoes! Go ahead! . . . Do you want to live forever? . . . Don't cheer, boys; the poor devils are dying."
Laughing words, June-warm words, words cold as January ice:
"Root, hog, or die. .. I've come from Alabama with my banjo. . . Pike's Peak or bust! . . . Busted, by God! . . . When you say that, smile.... Wait till you see the whites of their eyes.... With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right.... I am not a Virginian, but an American."
You can hear men in assembly summoned, there in Philadelphia, hear the scratch of their quills as they wrote words for the hour and produced a document for the ages.
You can hear them demanding guarantees for which they suffered through the hell of war, hear a Yankee voice intoning the text of ten brief amendments.
You can hear the slow cadences of a gaunt and weary man at Gettysburg, dedicating not a cemetery, but a nation.
You can hear those echoes as you walk along the streets, hear them in the rumble of traffic; you can hear them as you stand at the lathe, in the roaring factory; hear them in the clack of train wheels, in the drumming throb of the air liner; hear them in the corn fields and in the big woods and in the mine pits and the oil fields.
But they aren't words any longer; they're a way of life, a pattern of living.
They're the dawn that brings another day in which to get on the job.
They're the noon whistle, with a chance to get the kinks out of your back, to get a bowl of soup, a plate of beans, a cup of coffee into your belly.
They're evening, with another day's work done; supper with the wife and kids; a movie, or the radio, or the newspaper or a magazine -- and no Gestapo snooping at the door and threatening to kick your teeth in.
They are a pattern of life as lived by a free people, freedom that has its roots in rights and obligations:
The right to go to a church with a cross or a star or a dome or a steeple, or not to go to any church at all; and the obligation to respect others in that same right.
The right to harangue on a street corner, to hire a hall and shout your opinions till your tonsils are worn to a frazzle; and the obligation to curb your tongue now and then.
The right to go to school, to learn a trade, to enter a profession, to earn an honest living; and the obligation to do an honest day's work.
The right to put your side of the argument in the hands of a jury; and the obligation to abide by the laws that you and your delegates have written in the statute books.
The right to choose who shall run our government for us, the right to a secret vote that counts just as much as the next fellow's in the final tally; and the obligation to use that right, and guard it and keep it clean.
The right to hope, to dream, to pray; the obligation to serve.
These are some of the meanings of those four words, meanings we don't often stop to tally up or even list.
Only in the stillness of a moonless night, or in the quiet of a Sunday afternoon, or in the thin dawn of a new day, when our world is close about us, do they rise up in our memories and stir in our sentient hearts.
Only then? That is not wholly so -- not today!
For today we are drilling holes and driving rivets, shaping barrels and loading shells, fitting wings and welding hulls,
And we are remembering Wake Island, and Bataan, and Corregidor, and Hong Kong and Singapore and Batavia;
We are remembering Warsaw and Rotterdam and Rouen and Coventry.
Remembering, and muttering with each rivet driven home: "There's another one for remembrance!"
They're plain words, those four. Simple words.
You could write them on your thumbnail, if you chose, Or you could sweep them all across the sky, horizon to horizon.
You could grave them on stone, you could carve them on the mountain ranges.
You could sing them, to the tune of "Yankee Doodle."
But you needn't. You needn't do any of those things, For those words are graven in the hearts of 130,000,00 people, they are familiar to 130,000,000 tongues, every sound and every syllable.
But when we speak them we speak them softly, proudly, gratefully:
I am an American.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:26 pm |
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Thank you for posting that. That is a TERRIFIC song. Hal Borland is a great American.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:01 pm |
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Ok, let's say there is a whole lot of anti-American sentiment "out there". It matters because.......?
-------signature-------
"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:05 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | Ok, let's say there is a whole lot of anti-American sentiment "out there". It matters because.......? |
Well, we're hated. I just wanted to prove that. I don't care what France, Russia, and Germany say, though, really, but I just wanted to prove it, being that people like Defiant have disagreed with the fact.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:21 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | Ok, let's say there is a whole lot of anti-American sentiment "out there". It matters because.......? |
...like every other country, the well being of America depends greatly on others. I think we can assume that if America could survive all on its own, it'd probably be doing it.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:42 pm |
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Link
Anti-American sentiment right here at STV.
OMG, Americans have a President, not a Prime-Minister. We don't use the metric system, we pronounce "burgh" "berg", and not "burrough" or "burra". And, OMG, there are some fat Americans,  . And, those bastard Americans, they dare have national pride, they care about their country.
Please, who's trying to conform whom? I need to get someone to send me that letter "to the US." We drink coffee more than tea, oh lordie, shoot us now.
Last edited by Theresa on Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:48 pm |
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Unfortunately, Theresa, some Americans seem to only care about their country and nothing else. And hey, that's fine, whatever makes you sleep at night. I'm certainly not going to tell people to start caring about something they don't want to. But it's these same people, for the most part, who can't seem to grasp why America is taking up 50% of the 'Who's the most dangerous?' vote.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:52 pm |
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I can see why the US could be perceived as a threat. But she hasn't made herself a threat. The part I was trying to get at earlier was that just because you percieve something to be a threat, doesn't mean it is.
Seriously, North Korea with nukes is less of a threat than the US? Hardly.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:57 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | I can see why the US could be perceived as a threat. But she hasn't made herself a threat. The part I was trying to get at earlier was that just because you percieve something to be a threat, doesn't mean it is.
Seriously, North Korea with nukes is less of a threat than the US? Hardly. |
I agree. However, this image of America has been flooding the globe ever since they invaded Iraq. Sure, they might be the good guys (well, they are the good guys) but it damn well doesn't look like it to a lot of people. And seeing as a lot of people only have that much info to go on, you can't really blame them.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:59 pm |
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I'm the type that will blame for stereotyping,  I feel if you don't bother to learn something, you shouldn't run your mouth about it. But, I suppose I'll have to get used to it.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:54 pm |
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| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | People do have the right to their opinions. Some people say "love it or leave it." I'd much rather stay here and try to turn our country around for the better. Diversity makes our society great. I do not like President Bush or the current state of our government. I do not like capitalism. I do not like individualism. I am against the American Dream in most traditional senses, and I'm not afraid to say it. You know why? Because our constitution gives me the right to live here and speak out against my government. I applaud those who speak out against America's government, just as I'm happy to listen to those who speak out for it. The basis of our country is that we don't all have to be alike for us to live together and get along; and that's one ideal I never intend to let go of. |
So true. And as cheesy as this sounds. We could all take a lesson from crayons. They are all different, diverse colors. Some are beautiful. Some are ugly. Some have wierd names, but in the end they all have to learn to live in the same box. Thats how the rest of the world needs to be. I am VERY anti-bush because of what he's done to America. I'm almost AFRAID to live here now, because we're geting on everyones nerves, we are rapidly losing friends, and we cannot go around turning other countries away. America is going to end up getting nuked off the face of the earth...
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:59 pm |
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| Kyre wrote: | | Unfortunately, Theresa, some Americans seem to only care about their country and nothing else. And hey, that's fine, whatever makes you sleep at night. I'm certainly not going to tell people to start caring about something they don't want to. But it's these same people, for the most part, who can't seem to grasp why America is taking up 50% of the 'Who's the most dangerous?' vote. |
I admit it, I'm ignorant and I don't get it. What makes America "a threat"? And "a threat" to what? 
-------signature-------
"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:04 pm |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | Kyre wrote: | | Unfortunately, Theresa, some Americans seem to only care about their country and nothing else. And hey, that's fine, whatever makes you sleep at night. I'm certainly not going to tell people to start caring about something they don't want to. But it's these same people, for the most part, who can't seem to grasp why America is taking up 50% of the 'Who's the most dangerous?' vote. |
I admit it, I'm ignorant and I don't get it. What makes America "a threat"? And "a threat" to what? |
America isn't a threat, but its actions are easily interpretable as such. The media gives weight to it also.
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:10 pm |
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| Kyre wrote: | | America isn't a threat, but its actions are easily interpretable as such. The media gives weight to it also. |
I somewhat agree with that. I don't exactly think we pose a threat, but I think our actions could be interpreted as such. I also think that our actions are speaking louder than our words, and if other nations interpret our actions as threats, maybe we do pose a threat. Do you get what I mean?
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