| Author |
Message |
Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
 Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:32 am |
|
| LightningBoy wrote: | | I don't like the idea of limiting elections in any way, but the school systems need a huge booster shot in the way of Civics, History, and Social Studies. I don't know why they feel so much need for pointless math, when things in the REAL WORLD are negated. |
Yes! And no!
Even here in Canada, our civics courses are detrimentally neglected by the education systems (at least of Ontario). In Grade 10 (my grade), we get one compulsory Civics course, half of which is Career Studies. I found this course to be extremely useful, but the problem is that my peers were still too . . . apathetic toward civil policy for the course to do much good. A repeat in Grade 11, then 12 even, would help.
We also only have one compulsory history at all . . .
Math is not pointless, although perhaps that is a biased opinion because I much prefer theoretical subjects to anything applicable in the real world. In high school, we currently have to take three years of math, the fourth year is optional.
So we don't need to limit voters. Yet obviously attempts to turn the average citizen into informed voters are not successful so far. One problem is propaganda . . . most election commercials these days are sponsored by one party trying to put forth their views. There isn't anything wrong with this, except that unless one has a certain amount of neutral propaganda (if there is such a thing), then it can be more overwhelming than do good.
Definitely reforming the education system is a good way to start. Civics courses in grade 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 . . .
|
|
|
Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:32 pm |
|
At first, I would be in support of a holiday on election day...LB's comment about absentee voting made me reconsider, but I think I'm still in favor of it. I firmly believe that if you don't wish to make an effort to vote, then it's best you don't. However, there are a lot of students and hard working people out there who simply have obligations and both no time to go vote, or have things that are pressing enough that getting an absentee ballot would likely slip their minds. I see little wrong with a holiday on the elections...I think it would be a good thing.
| Hitchhiker wrote: | | Definitely reforming the education system is a good way to start. Civics courses in grade 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 . . . |
I'm afraid I disagree. I'm all for history/civics, I love the stuff, I think it's one of the most important subjects. However, when you start beating people over the head YEAR after YEAR with the SAME information, it's wrong. Education is great, but geeze...high school's enough of a monotonous review of things you already know without adding more to it. And then--joy! You get the same thing AGAIN in college.
-------signature-------
Not the doctor... yet
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:18 pm |
|
You know, this is really a ploy by the Democrats because of the 2004 election  Another way to complain.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:38 pm |
|
Well, I think its a good idea since some people aren't able to vote since the lines are waaaaaaaaaay too long after work.
|
|
|
Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:06 pm |
|
Everytime I think of it, I think of Morphy over in Ohio. Didnt vote because the lines after work were too long! If there was a holiday, then Mr. Morphy would have had the time to make his voice heard!
|
|
|
Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:26 pm |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: | | You know, this is really a ploy by the Democrats because of the 2004 election Another way to complain. |
People have had this idea a while. I'm curious to why you oppose it.
And, I would note after reading through the other provisions of Clinton's proposal, I wouldn't support this particular set of ideas. I'm not for ex-felons voting. The holiday alone, fine. Not that gibberish...
|
|
|
LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:30 pm |
|
| Hitchhiker wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | I don't like the idea of limiting elections in any way, but the school systems need a huge booster shot in the way of Civics, History, and Social Studies. I don't know why they feel so much need for pointless math, when things in the REAL WORLD are negated. |
Yes! And no!
Even here in Canada, our civics courses are detrimentally neglected by the education systems (at least of Ontario). In Grade 10 (my grade), we get one compulsory Civics course, half of which is Career Studies. I found this course to be extremely useful, but the problem is that my peers were still too . . . apathetic toward civil policy for the course to do much good. A repeat in Grade 11, then 12 even, would help.
We also only have one compulsory history at all . . .
Math is not pointless, although perhaps that is a biased opinion because I much prefer theoretical subjects to anything applicable in the real world. In high school, we currently have to take three years of math, the fourth year is optional.
So we don't need to limit voters. Yet obviously attempts to turn the average citizen into informed voters are not successful so far. One problem is propaganda . . . most election commercials these days are sponsored by one party trying to put forth their views. There isn't anything wrong with this, except that unless one has a certain amount of neutral propaganda (if there is such a thing), then it can be more overwhelming than do good.
Definitely reforming the education system is a good way to start. Civics courses in grade 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 . . . |
I know what you mean, one of my favorite classes was physics, which is mostly math. But I just don't see people using Sine, Cosine, and Tangent too much in the future, unless you're going into a specific math-related feild. But education reform is the #1 issue I want changed in the U.S., and NEITHER party has it right, here.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:54 pm |
|
| Exalya wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | You know, this is really a ploy by the Democrats because of the 2004 election Another way to complain. |
People have had this idea a while. I'm curious to why you oppose it.
And, I would note after reading through the other provisions of Clinton's proposal, I wouldn't support this particular set of ideas. I'm not for ex-felons voting. The holiday alone, fine. Not that gibberish... |
I just don't think there's any good reason to make it a federal holiday. I just don't like the idea of a HOLIDAY for elections. And I took the day off of school on election day--I WOULD want it, but I don't think it's a good idea. I don't like it.
| LightningBoy wrote: | | Hitchhiker wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | I don't like the idea of limiting elections in any way, but the school systems need a huge booster shot in the way of Civics, History, and Social Studies. I don't know why they feel so much need for pointless math, when things in the REAL WORLD are negated. |
Yes! And no!
Even here in Canada, our civics courses are detrimentally neglected by the education systems (at least of Ontario). In Grade 10 (my grade), we get one compulsory Civics course, half of which is Career Studies. I found this course to be extremely useful, but the problem is that my peers were still too . . . apathetic toward civil policy for the course to do much good. A repeat in Grade 11, then 12 even, would help.
We also only have one compulsory history at all . . .
Math is not pointless, although perhaps that is a biased opinion because I much prefer theoretical subjects to anything applicable in the real world. In high school, we currently have to take three years of math, the fourth year is optional.
So we don't need to limit voters. Yet obviously attempts to turn the average citizen into informed voters are not successful so far. One problem is propaganda . . . most election commercials these days are sponsored by one party trying to put forth their views. There isn't anything wrong with this, except that unless one has a certain amount of neutral propaganda (if there is such a thing), then it can be more overwhelming than do good.
Definitely reforming the education system is a good way to start. Civics courses in grade 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 . . . |
I know what you mean, one of my favorite classes was physics, which is mostly math. But I just don't see people using Sine, Cosine, and Tangent too much in the future, unless you're going into a specific math-related feild. But education reform is the #1 issue I want changed in the U.S., and NEITHER party has it right, here. |
I hate physics 
But what would you reform with education? My reform: Put more Republicans in the teaching field! 
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:23 pm |
|
I agree with you there RM, more republicans. I be happy well for my kids anyway.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:26 pm |
|
| Rbgirl wrote: | | I agree with you there RM, more republicans. I be happy well for my kids anyway. |
lol, my teacher for my Global Studies class this year was saying that he would put me into a more advanced class for next year if I said, "Democrats rule." I said no, obviously and I knew that he wouldn't really do this. A bit later, he came back and asked again, and said I was stubborn As I was leaving, he signed it
I knew he was kidding the whole time--it was somewhat funny. At least he's a good Lib--and perhaps my favorite teacher this year--and he TRIES to give both sides to the story. Perhaps one of the most fair-minded Libs I've ever met--well, next to this one friend of mine...he's fair-minded enough to know that the media is mostly Liberal and that FOX News is hardly Republican biased
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:28 pm |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: | | Exalya wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | You know, this is really a ploy by the Democrats because of the 2004 election Another way to complain. |
People have had this idea a while. I'm curious to why you oppose it.
And, I would note after reading through the other provisions of Clinton's proposal, I wouldn't support this particular set of ideas. I'm not for ex-felons voting. The holiday alone, fine. Not that gibberish... |
I just don't think there's any good reason to make it a federal holiday. I just don't like the idea of a HOLIDAY for elections. And I took the day off of school on election day--I WOULD want it, but I don't think it's a good idea. I don't like it.
| LightningBoy wrote: | | Hitchhiker wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | I don't like the idea of limiting elections in any way, but the school systems need a huge booster shot in the way of Civics, History, and Social Studies. I don't know why they feel so much need for pointless math, when things in the REAL WORLD are negated. |
Yes! And no!
Even here in Canada, our civics courses are detrimentally neglected by the education systems (at least of Ontario). In Grade 10 (my grade), we get one compulsory Civics course, half of which is Career Studies. I found this course to be extremely useful, but the problem is that my peers were still too . . . apathetic toward civil policy for the course to do much good. A repeat in Grade 11, then 12 even, would help.
We also only have one compulsory history at all . . .
Math is not pointless, although perhaps that is a biased opinion because I much prefer theoretical subjects to anything applicable in the real world. In high school, we currently have to take three years of math, the fourth year is optional.
So we don't need to limit voters. Yet obviously attempts to turn the average citizen into informed voters are not successful so far. One problem is propaganda . . . most election commercials these days are sponsored by one party trying to put forth their views. There isn't anything wrong with this, except that unless one has a certain amount of neutral propaganda (if there is such a thing), then it can be more overwhelming than do good.
Definitely reforming the education system is a good way to start. Civics courses in grade 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 . . . |
I know what you mean, one of my favorite classes was physics, which is mostly math. But I just don't see people using Sine, Cosine, and Tangent too much in the future, unless you're going into a specific math-related feild. But education reform is the #1 issue I want changed in the U.S., and NEITHER party has it right, here. |
I hate physics
But what would you reform with education? My reform: Put more Republicans in the teaching field! |
I'm glad you could take the day off for election day. College kids? The ones who would be able to vote anyway? You get ducked serious grades in college for missing a class. In some classes, you miss three times and the duck your grade a letter. Can they skip class? Nuh-uh. No way. I wouldn't even do it if there were ANY way around it. I don't see the inherent problem with a holiday. So many people come home from work too tired, or work all day, and they just can't. I don't see your logic.
As for education, I don't care who's teaching. There are great liberal teachers. It's not the teachers, most of the time. It's the broken system. Which, I have recently decided, I have declared formal war on. (Holding me a year because I have so many classes that I can't make the exit exam? Heh. They've got another thing comin'...) The education system is annoying, and inefficient.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:32 pm |
|
| Exalya wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Exalya wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | You know, this is really a ploy by the Democrats because of the 2004 election Another way to complain. |
People have had this idea a while. I'm curious to why you oppose it.
And, I would note after reading through the other provisions of Clinton's proposal, I wouldn't support this particular set of ideas. I'm not for ex-felons voting. The holiday alone, fine. Not that gibberish... |
I just don't think there's any good reason to make it a federal holiday. I just don't like the idea of a HOLIDAY for elections. And I took the day off of school on election day--I WOULD want it, but I don't think it's a good idea. I don't like it.
| LightningBoy wrote: | | Hitchhiker wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | I don't like the idea of limiting elections in any way, but the school systems need a huge booster shot in the way of Civics, History, and Social Studies. I don't know why they feel so much need for pointless math, when things in the REAL WORLD are negated. |
Yes! And no!
Even here in Canada, our civics courses are detrimentally neglected by the education systems (at least of Ontario). In Grade 10 (my grade), we get one compulsory Civics course, half of which is Career Studies. I found this course to be extremely useful, but the problem is that my peers were still too . . . apathetic toward civil policy for the course to do much good. A repeat in Grade 11, then 12 even, would help.
We also only have one compulsory history at all . . .
Math is not pointless, although perhaps that is a biased opinion because I much prefer theoretical subjects to anything applicable in the real world. In high school, we currently have to take three years of math, the fourth year is optional.
So we don't need to limit voters. Yet obviously attempts to turn the average citizen into informed voters are not successful so far. One problem is propaganda . . . most election commercials these days are sponsored by one party trying to put forth their views. There isn't anything wrong with this, except that unless one has a certain amount of neutral propaganda (if there is such a thing), then it can be more overwhelming than do good.
Definitely reforming the education system is a good way to start. Civics courses in grade 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 . . . |
I know what you mean, one of my favorite classes was physics, which is mostly math. But I just don't see people using Sine, Cosine, and Tangent too much in the future, unless you're going into a specific math-related feild. But education reform is the #1 issue I want changed in the U.S., and NEITHER party has it right, here. |
I hate physics
But what would you reform with education? My reform: Put more Republicans in the teaching field! |
I'm glad you could take the day off for election day. College kids? The ones who would be able to vote anyway? You get ducked serious grades in college for missing a class. In some classes, you miss three times and the duck your grade a letter. Can they skip class? Nuh-uh. No way. I wouldn't even do it if there were ANY way around it. I don't see the inherent problem with a holiday. So many people come home from work too tired, or work all day, and they just can't. I don't see your logic.
As for education, I don't care who's teaching. There are great liberal teachers. It's not the teachers, most of the time. It's the broken system. Which, I have recently decided, I have declared formal war on. (Holding me a year because I have so many classes that I can't make the exit exam? Heh. They've got another thing comin'...) The education system is annoying, and inefficient. |
Oh, my parents called the school. That's why I got to take it off I see your reasoning, but I just don't think it's worth another federal holiday.
And yes, there ARE great Liberal teachers. I've had three of them. One who likes Jimmy Carter a lot, was very funny, and is a great guy. One who was just a great guy and teacher and was VERY funny. And another who's a great guy, teacher, gave me a 1980s SW card and did what I detailed in another thread (don't remember which one, though...) just today. And all but one of them are my favorite teachers for those years (the first one is tied with another, who, I'm guessing, is also a Lib). lol
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:37 pm |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: |
Oh, my parents called the school. That's why I got to take it off I see your reasoning, but I just don't think it's worth another federal holiday.
And yes, there ARE great Liberal teachers. I've had three of them. One who likes Jimmy Carter a lot, was very funny, and is a great guy. One who was just a great guy and teacher and was VERY funny. And another who's a great guy, teacher, gave me a 1980s SW card and did what I detailed in another thread (don't remember which one, though...) just today. And all but one of them are my favorite teachers for those years (the first one is tied with another, who, I'm guessing, is also a Lib). lol |
And Caesar Chavez day is more important? Columbus Day? (Do they even celebrate that anymore?) President's Day (Which we wouldn't have if no one could vote anyway)? No. I think it's just sad how many good people are prevented from voting because they're busy contributing to society. It makes no sense. Flaaaaaaawed.
|
|
|
Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:38 pm |
|
You find time for what is important.
|
|
|
Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:41 pm |
|
...
I'm not going to repeat myself, but a few posts back, I mentioned that issue. Which I agree with.
|
|
|
Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm |
|
C'mon guys! Its an extra Holiday! I agree that the Dem. are doing this because they are bitter about losing, but its a HOLIDAY. I mean the way I see it is, we go vote and then go home and do nothing the rest of the day. Look I hate school and work. So anything that will let me off it, im for!
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:21 pm |
|
| Exalya wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
Oh, my parents called the school. That's why I got to take it off I see your reasoning, but I just don't think it's worth another federal holiday.
And yes, there ARE great Liberal teachers. I've had three of them. One who likes Jimmy Carter a lot, was very funny, and is a great guy. One who was just a great guy and teacher and was VERY funny. And another who's a great guy, teacher, gave me a 1980s SW card and did what I detailed in another thread (don't remember which one, though...) just today. And all but one of them are my favorite teachers for those years (the first one is tied with another, who, I'm guessing, is also a Lib). lol |
And Caesar Chavez day is more important? Columbus Day? (Do they even celebrate that anymore?) President's Day (Which we wouldn't have if no one could vote anyway)? No. I think it's just sad how many good people are prevented from voting because they're busy contributing to society. It makes no sense. Flaaaaaaawed. |
Caesar Chavez day? What? And we don't get that, nor Columbus Day, off here, and I don't think we should. President's day is different, however, but Kevin's right. You find time for what is important.
And I don't care that it's a holiday, Founder. We have enough already.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:24 pm |
|
They speculate that during the election, the higher voter turnouts favored the republicans mostly. Republicans seem to get more votes in rural areas, where its not as simple to cast your vote. The democrats are simply trying to raise voter turnout, to better everyone, and make everyones voice heard. Although, they did try hard because they initially thought it would benefit them more, but then they were disproved.
|
|
|
Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:25 pm |
|
I just don't want to go to work and school.
|
|
|
Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:27 pm |
|
Yeah, I hear that! It would be cool, because it would be easier to watch election coverage all day! And its only once every 4 years!
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:29 pm |
|
| Founder wrote: | | I just don't want to go to work and school. |
You know, I want as many days off as possible. But not election day--especially considering I want to be one of the few to actually participate in the process!
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:33 pm |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: | | Exalya wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
Oh, my parents called the school. That's why I got to take it off I see your reasoning, but I just don't think it's worth another federal holiday.
And yes, there ARE great Liberal teachers. I've had three of them. One who likes Jimmy Carter a lot, was very funny, and is a great guy. One who was just a great guy and teacher and was VERY funny. And another who's a great guy, teacher, gave me a 1980s SW card and did what I detailed in another thread (don't remember which one, though...) just today. And all but one of them are my favorite teachers for those years (the first one is tied with another, who, I'm guessing, is also a Lib). lol |
And Caesar Chavez day is more important? Columbus Day? (Do they even celebrate that anymore?) President's Day (Which we wouldn't have if no one could vote anyway)? No. I think it's just sad how many good people are prevented from voting because they're busy contributing to society. It makes no sense. Flaaaaaaawed. |
Caesar Chavez day? What? And we don't get that, nor Columbus Day, off here, and I don't think we should. President's day is different, however, but Kevin's right. You find time for what is important.
And I don't care that it's a holiday, Founder. We have enough already. |
Well, Humboldt State doesn't give President's Day off, but they do have Caesar Chavez Day. Which I resent. But fine...so, a few hard working parents and students won't be able to vote. So what? <sarcasm> And I have argued everything I've got...thank you and good night. *bows and exits stage-right*
-------signature-------
Not the doctor... yet
|
|
|
LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:52 pm |
|
Well, education reform is all about curriculum, NOT funding. I would like to see more focus, as I stated above, on Civics, History, and Social Studies. Whereas, there should'nt be as much focus on Math, Gym, and Health. I think it's sad that in my district, students are required to take 3 years of math, 2 years of health, and 2 years of gym, meanwhile, 1 class of history, 1 class of Civics, and almost no arts. And yes, I think art is very educational, it broadens the mind well.
I DO like the way disrticts have handled Communications. My district requires 4 years of english, one of which is focused toward speech. This is, IMHO, one of the most important classes students need to take.
Throwing money at it won't help, when you close your eyes to the REAL problems.
|
|
|
Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:12 pm |
|
I skipped most of this thread, but one point stood out which I need to query. Apologies if it's already been asked.
Why, Republican_Man, are you opposed to having this day made into a holiday, but admit to not going to school on it?
|
|
|
LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
|
| Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:14 pm |
|
Why have another holiday? It's just another day of economic apathy then.
When people are at work, people are stimulating the economy. If you start making holidays left and right, it will hurt the economy.
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Star Trek �, in all its various forms, are trademarks & copyrights of Paramount Pictures
This site has no official connection with Star Trek or Paramount Pictures
Site content/Site design elements owned by Morphy and is meant to only be an archive/Tribute to STV.com
|
Search
FAQ
Log in
