| Do you like the STV Congress idea? |
| Yes, it's a great idea! |
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51% |
[ 14 ] |
| It's interesting. Yeah. |
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29% |
[ 8 ] |
| Yes |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Meh, kind-of. |
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3% |
[ 1 ] |
| No. |
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7% |
[ 2 ] |
| No way! It's stupid, really. |
|
7% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 27 |
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| Author |
Message |
Valathous
The Canadian, eh
Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 19074
Location: Centre Bell
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 Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:09 am |
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Zeke created that website several months ago. He didn't make it for this. 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:06 pm |
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NOTE: IF YOU SEE A THOUGHT FOR A MINOR AMENDMENT TO A LEGISLATION, YOU MAY BRING IT UP TO THE SPEAKER OF THE CONGRESS. IF THE SPEAKER DEEMS THAT IT IS A WORTHY AMENDMENT (NOT in his opinion, however) THEN IT MAY GO UP FOR AN AUTHORSHIP SPEECH AND VOTE ON THE AMENDMENT. PLEASE ASK ANY QUESTIONS HERE!
Also, the Legislation committee is up and running! Apply now!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:00 pm |
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Well, it's meant to be serious. And it is open for membership. It's been around for a while now. I have no illusions about the popularity of my views though. I never expected many people to join, if anyone.
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Krall
Klingon General
Joined: 03 Sep 2002
Posts: 3863
Location: Lie? I do not lie! Except just then.
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| Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:03 pm |
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Sweet idea, but ONE problem. I'll asuume your from the US, RM, I hate to say, BUt your spot has to be open for elction at somepoint. EVEN if you are the mod. Otherwise it isn't democratic right? Anywho Does the congress happen by anychance have any effect on the website? Hmm? lol MOrphy would kill anyone who tried that  But this is a great idea all and all. Just needs alittle tweaking. Absolute power corrupts abslutely. So RM has to be voted into office. I've nothing agaisnt you on this RM, it's just the way the real system works. And have a 1.5 vote is kinda.....unfair. With stock it's different, Each single stock counts for a single vote, Say i have... 34 bit 'o stock. I got 34 votes.  And, i dunno what party i belong too... once i find out i'll apply, I think I'm libral.... bah Ask Exayla she know these things
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"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." - Garak (Improbable Cause)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:08 pm |
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| Krall wrote: | | Sweet idea, but ONE problem. I'll asuume your from the US, RM, I hate to say, BUt your spot has to be open for elction at somepoint. EVEN if you are the mod. Otherwise it isn't democratic right? Anywho Does the congress happen by anychance have any effect on the website? Hmm? lol MOrphy would kill anyone who tried that But this is a great idea all and all. Just needs alittle tweaking. Absolute power corrupts abslutely. So RM has to be voted into office. I've nothing agaisnt you on this RM, it's just the way the real system works. And have a 1.5 vote is kinda.....unfair. With stock it's different, Each single stock counts for a single vote, Say i have... 34 bit 'o stock. I got 34 votes. And, i dunno what party i belong too... once i find out i'll apply, I think I'm libral.... bah Ask Exayla she know these things |
There will be elections for everyone EXCEPT for me. I HAVE to be Speaker, and stay permanently, although I will get less and less power as time progresses (eventually the Speaker will have virtually no to very little power)
Once we DO get a forum, under WN juristiction (that will most likely happen later on), we will have elections for everyone else. I am working on planning the extensive elections at this time.
Also, as Exalya said before, the 1.5 vote really is irrelivent. You need a 2/3 majority, and how could a tie bring that? It can't. It's just there
But thanks for your input
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Krall
Klingon General
Joined: 03 Sep 2002
Posts: 3863
Location: Lie? I do not lie! Except just then.
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| Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:11 pm |
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lol okay, just seems kinda power hungry to me but eh *shrugs* any ibertarian spots available? >
-------signature-------
"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." - Garak (Improbable Cause)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:12 pm |
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| Krall wrote: | | lol okay, just seems kinda power hungry to me but eh *shrugs* any ibertarian spots available? > |
Yep! LB's the leader of that party, so yeah. But if you're liberal, you can't really be libertarian
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Krall
Klingon General
Joined: 03 Sep 2002
Posts: 3863
Location: Lie? I do not lie! Except just then.
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| Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:21 pm |
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...... I can't be both.. i don't think... lol I'm liberatarian so says syd, hmm lol I"m new to polotics, gunna take the class next year
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:23 pm |
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Alright, Libertarian it is. Post an application here, answering the questions required from the first page!
Btw, the Congress format:
Format: The Congressional Chamber, as it is called, will run like this:
1. Opening Ceremony. This happens at the beginning of each session, which is when a new legislation is up for debate.
2. Motions. Request motions for the floor.
3. Opening Debate. Whomever has proposed the legislation gets to speak, displaying their authorship on the bill.
4. Opponent Leadership. The Primary Opposition to the bill (Opponenet Leadership), who can request this position to the Speaker of the Congress, will give his speech representing the opposition of the bill.
5. Motions. Request motions for the floor.
6. CX (Cross-Examination/Fire) Debate--Sudden arguments. You may respond with sounds (grounds) to proponent and oponent statements during this time, and may speak up when the speaker has finished asking the question and then it has been answered without request. This lasts about 10 or so posts.
7.Proponent Speech. Unless a motion to "move to previous question" (read below) is passed, and a vote is passed, another proponent will be allowed to give a speech.
8. Opponent Speech. Unless a motion to "move to previous question" (read below) is passed, and a vote on the bill occurs, another opponent will be allowed to give a speech.
9. Steps 6, 7, and 8 will be repeated until a vote is eventually passed.
10. Closing Ceremony. This happens at the end of each session.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Krall
Klingon General
Joined: 03 Sep 2002
Posts: 3863
Location: Lie? I do not lie! Except just then.
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| Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:33 pm |
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1. C.J. Roberts
2. Libertarian
3. I have (i think) very Uniqe veiw of a fair amount of things.
4. United States of Jello, Strawberry
lol, USA, AL
-------signature-------
"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." - Garak (Improbable Cause)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:36 pm |
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lol, welcome aboard!
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Krall
Klingon General
Joined: 03 Sep 2002
Posts: 3863
Location: Lie? I do not lie! Except just then.
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| Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:41 pm |
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No lovey dovey crap please Lemmi piss off people ASAP! I"m good at it! *luaghs insanely*
-------signature-------
"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." - Garak (Improbable Cause)
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:49 pm |
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| Krall wrote: | | No lovey dovey crap please Lemmi piss off people ASAP! I"m good at it! *luaghs insanely* |
Be careful what you do
And represent yourself, eventual District, and party well, for in the future you could be voted off
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:19 pm |
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Alright, you may continue the discussion of the Congress here, but if you wish to apply for membership in the Congress, please PM ME the required information. The first post on this topic will not be added to from this point on.
PLEASE UN-Stickie this topic!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:51 pm |
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Ach, now I see why democracy doesn't work. You spend all your time going back and forth in official ritual rather than actually doing anything. Reminds me of the time I tried watching a House of Commons session on television . . . >.<
So congratulations, you seem to be accurately replicating a legislative assembly here. Whether or not that's a good thing . . .
:;ducks::
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:57 pm |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | Ach, now I see why democracy doesn't work. You spend all your time going back and forth in official ritual rather than actually doing anything. Reminds me of the time I tried watching a House of Commons session on television . . . >.<
So congratulations, you seem to be accurately replicating a legislative assembly here. Whether or not that's a good thing . . .
:;ducks:: |
Sufficient debates must happen before a vote, Tach. And besides, with this committee (legislation), it's necessary to allow for organization and for the Speaker to not have so much power.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:17 pm |
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I agree with RM. It's important to hear at least once from both sides on each issue. I like the format of the STV Congress a lot. My only two objections are that the crossfire round is pointless and the Speaker has too much power. He's like a one man Congressional Committee. I'm willing to trust in him for now though, as long as he stands by his word and hands off his powers to elected positions and actual committees over the coming sessions. I just hope he's quick about it.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:20 pm |
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| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | I agree with RM. It's important to hear at least once from both sides on each issue. I like the format of the STV Congress a lot. My only two objections are that the crossfire round is pointless and the Speaker has too much power. He's like a one man Congressional Committee. I'm willing to trust in him for now though, as long as he stands by his word and hands off his powers to elected positions and actual committees over the coming sessions. I just hope he's quick about it. |
Alright, thanks for the format like. A few comments on everything else.
1. Crossfire allows for a more fun kind of debate. It's more like the British House of Commons, and is a "true" debate. That's something I think it needs.
2. How do I have too much power? Well, sure, in the beginning I'm working on situating the rules, but what else? Yes, I stay in that position indefinitely, but otherwise, I don't have too much power, and I won't, once everything is figured out.
3. Unfortunately committees other than the Legislation Committee cannot be made until (if/when, which I'm expecting it's a matter of when) we get a forum. Then we can have almost any committee immaginable.
Thanks for your input!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:27 pm |
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How do you have too much power? Well, because every bit of legislation that anyone wants to go to the floor needs to get past you. If you don't deem it "of quality," it doesn't even reach the legislation committee. You have the power to create new rules as we go along, which you've already done two or three times. You have the power to voice your position on a proposal or motion by default. You have the power to accept or deny new Congressmen. You have the floor for most of the proceedings (yes, I know that's the way it is in the real Congress). You have a lot of power, both IC and OOC. I know you're a good guy and probably won't abuse it in terms of allowing members and approving legislation, but it's still worrisome.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:35 pm |
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| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | How do you have too much power? Well, because every bit of legislation that anyone wants to go to the floor needs to get past you. If you don't deem it "of quality," it doesn't even reach the legislation committee. |
1. "Of quality" means that it has good reasoning and is written well. As you very well know, I am COMPLETELY opposed to this amendment of yours, but I allowed it to happen. I will NOT allow my personal politics to interfere, and if it seems like it is, PLEASE let me know!
| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | You have the power to create new rules as we go along, which you've already done two or three times. |
2. We're just starting to figure this out, Zeke. I'm not going to give myself such a high amount of power or anything, but there ARE flaws that will come up and will have to be address (PS: Eventually, once things are settled, rules will become Propositions to be voted on by the Congress)
| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | You have the power to voice your position on a proposal or motion by default. |
3. Yes, I do. There is NO problem with that. I am letting you know where I stand, so as to show that I am NOT allowing my personal views to get in the way.
| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | You have the power to accept or deny new Congressmen. |
4. ASK Theresa about this if you are concerned! I am WORKING on plans for elections already, and we don't even have a forum. And have I denied a Congressman yet? NO, and I don't intend to, unless it's, say, someone like Dirt, who will come in and BASH people. THAT is why that power is there.
| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | You have the floor for most of the proceedings (yes, I know that's the way it is in the real Congress). |
5. The floor is NOT meant for me to just give my viewpoint, Zeke It's to keep order, organization, etc.
And 6. I've STARTED the Legislation Committee! (The first official post will be up momentarily.)
I don't mean to be stern, but that's how I am when clarifying things I hope this helps
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:37 pm |
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I know you don't mean to be stern, just like I don't intend all this to attack you. I'm just making sure you don't get away with saying you don't have any power as Speaker .
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:39 pm |
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By the way, how do we decide when the voting is over? You should specify a quorum and/or a time limit.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:42 pm |
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| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | | By the way, how do we decide when the voting is over? You should specify a quorum and/or a time limit. |
| The Rules wrote: | | 10. A Debate is limited to, unless the Speaker deems it need be longer, 8 to 10 speeches per side. That would mean 16 to 20 total. |
Good suggestion, but there it is
--EDIT--
Btw, the "Speaker deems it need be longer" is depending on the intensity of the debate, how much it is, etc.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Zeke Zabertini
Captain
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 4832
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| Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:45 pm |
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Um... that doesn't deal with voting. It deals with debate. I'm saying you need to specify how many congresspeople need to vote for it to be valid or set a time limit for voting. Otherwise you'll have to wait for everyone in the Congress to vote, which could take days or even weeks unless you threw them out. And don't say you get to decide on a case-by-case basis. Make a rule. Otherwise you'll soon be accused of cutting off the vote when your side has a majority.
Trying to save you future problems,
-Zeke
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:46 pm |
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| Zeke Zabertini wrote: | Um... that doesn't deal with voting. It deals with debate. I'm saying you need to specify how many congresspeople need to vote for it to be valid or set a time limit for voting. Otherwise you'll have to wait for everyone in the Congress to vote, which could take days or even weeks unless you threw them out. And don't say you get to decide on a case-by-case basis. Make a rule. Otherwise you'll soon be accused of cutting off the vote when your side has a majority.
Trying to save you future problems,
-Zeke |
Thanks, and good point. I'm open to suggestions I'm thinking a minimum of 15 when there's 20, 20 when there's 25, etc. If we get to 50, then I'd say 40. Your thoughts?
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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