stv-archives.com - OFFICIAL Iraqi Elections Thread

Sun Nov 24, 2024 4:31 pm

FAQ

OFFICIAL Iraqi Elections Thread
View: previous topic :: next topic

stv-archives.com Forum Index -> World News

This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.

This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.

Author

Message

Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative

Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified

Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:46 pm OFFICIAL Iraqi Elections Thread

Approved by Theresa. Read the ENTIRE introduction, please.
This is the only thread for news and updates on the first Iraqi elections, as well as debates. If there is news on the election of any kind, except for something like "it may effect the elections," post it here. And discuss the events leading up to the election, election day (Sunday), and after election day (revolving around the election)
Enjoy!
((I ask that you say, when presenting news, in bold, "NEWS REPORT" right above the quote.))

NEWS REPORT

FOX News wrote:

Iraq Violence Kills 12; Baghdad Gun Battles
Thursday, January 27, 2005

BAGHDAD, Iraq � Eleven Iraqis and one U.S. Marine were killed Thursday as insurgents clashed with U.S. troops and blew up a school slated to serve as a polling center � pre-election violence that followed the deadliest day for U.S. troops since the war's start. Another U.S. soldier died in an accident.

The Marine was killed and five others were injured when insurgents launched mortars at their base near Iskandariyah (search), about 30 miles south of Baghdad.

In the capital, U.S. and Iraqi troops clashed with insurgents on Haifa Street (search) in the center of the city, witnesses reported.

The attacks came after the deadliest day for U.S. forces since the Iraq war began nearly two years ago: 30 U.S. Marines and a Navy sailor died when a helicopter crashed in bad weather in the western desert Wednesday, and six other U.S. troops were killed in insurgent ambushes.

Attacks have increased ahead of Sunday's national elections, when Iraqis will choose a 275-member legislature and provincial councils across the country in the first balloting since the 2003 ouster of Saddam Hussein. Sunni Muslim militants have vowed to undermine the elections, fearing victory at the polls by the Shiite Muslim majority.

U.S. soldiers stepped up operations, moving to forward positions around Baghdad until the end of balloting and tightening security at their main bases, a brigade commander said.

The interim government will deploy an additional 2,500 troops to help guard the elections, the Defense Ministry said. A total of 300,000 Iraqi and multinational troops will provide security, with Iraq's U.S.-trained forces taking the lead role.

About 9,000 Iraqi troops also are being dispatched to guard oil pipelines, which insurgents have repeatedly targeted.

Hundreds of U.S. soldiers assigned to the Louisiana National Guard's 256th Brigade moved out from Camp Liberty (search), located near Baghdad's main airport, to take up positions at smaller bases scattered around the city.

U.S. troops will not be positioned at polling sites � Iraqi forces will be on guard there. But deploying more troops outside of the main, heavily guarded bases will enable them to respond quickly if needed by Iraqi forces, said Brig. Gen. John Basilica (search).

"We're hoping to enable the Iraqi security forces to be successful in defending the polling sites so their countrymen can vote," said Basilica, the commander of the Lafayette, La.-based brigade. "It's a critical time for them."

Three Iraqi civilians were killed Thursday in a house in Samarra, 60 miles north of Baghdad, when a car bomb exploded nearby, said Alaadin Mohammed, a doctor at the local hospital. Hours later, mortar shells fell on a designated polling station in Samarra, police said.

Also in Samarra, armed men blew up a school administration building after first ordering the staff to leave, said police Lt. Qassim Mohammed. The destroyed building had been scheduled to be a voting center Sunday.

Sporadic clashes also erupted in Samarra between U.S. troops and armed men, killing one Iraqi civilian and injuring another, Mohammed said.

In Kirkuk, insurgents attacked seven polling stations with mortars and machine guns and opened fire on a police patrol, killing one policeman, authorities said.

A suicide car bomber struck a U.S. military convoy near the northern city of Beiji, witnesses said. There were no reports of casualties.

Another three Iraqis were killed and seven injured when a roadside bomb missed a U.S. convoy in Mahmoudiya, 20 miles south of Baghdad, according to the area's hospital director, Dawoud al-Taie.

Also, an Iraqi army soldier was killed and five civilians and two Iraqi police officers were wounded when a suicide car bomb exploded near the Iraqi soldier's patrol in Baqouba, said 1st Sgt. Brian Thomas of the U.S. military.

Near Tikrit, a roadside bomb killed one Iraqi bystander and narrowly missed another passing U.S. military convoy, police said. The attack happened on a road near Saddam's hometown, about 80 miles north of Baghdad, said police Lt. Shalan Allawi.

And in Ramadi, capital of the insurgent-plagued province of Anbar west of Baghdad, another Iraqi National Guard soldier was killed when insurgents attacked a joint U.S.-Iraqi force guarding a voting center at a school, said police Lt. Safa al-Obeidi.

The body of Talib Minshid, a colonel in the former Iraqi intelligence under Saddam, was found in Baqouba, according to a hospital official, Mohammed Ali. Minshid had been abducted by armed men two days ago.

A U.S. soldier died Thursday of a gunshot wound on a base near Tikrit in what the American military command called an accident.

Four Iraqi National Guard soldiers and one officer were kidnapped Wednesday in Baghdadi, 90 miles west of Baghdad. The abduction occurred after the Iraqi soldiers' car was stopped by insurgents at a checkpoint, according to witnesses.

On Wednesday, rebels launched a series of car bombs and attacks on polling centers across the country that killed at least 13 people.

One of two car bombings on Baghdad's dangerous airport road Wednesday injured eight Australian soldiers in a convoy escorting Australian government officials, authorities said.

In other developments, Defense Minster Hazem Shaalan (search) accused neighboring countries of helping fuel fraud allegations against him.

The charges were first made last week by Ahmed Chalabi (search), a prominent Iraqi politician, who called for Shaalan to be investigated for allegedly transferring $500 million in cash from the Iraqi Central Bank to a financial institution in Lebanon.

[Chalabi himself has been indicted in Jordan for allegedly embezzling hundreds of millions from a bank he controlled.]

The two men's political parties are major rivals in Sunday's elections.

A Defense Ministry official confirmed it had legally transferred hundreds of millions of dollars from the bank to a financial institution in Beirut to buy weapons.

The official added that the transfer was made with the knowledge of the Iraqi Central Bank, the Finance Ministry and the U.S.-led multinational forces.

Chalabi's call for an inquiry has triggered a series of allegations by the two Shiite politicians, who are running for parliament on separate tickets.

Source

Well, truly, what do you expect in the runup of the election? The terrorists will do ANYTHING to stop it, including this. But it DID work in Afganhistan. The people there passed through MINE FIELDS to get there.
So, good luck, troops and Iraq, with this election!

-------signature-------

"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews

Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative

Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified

Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:03 pm

OPINION COLLUMN

Bill O'Reilly wrote:

The Great Divide

By: Bill O'Reilly for BillOReilly.com
Thursday, Jan 27, 2005
Although he'd never admit it, President Bush is not a "uniter." In fact, I don't think any human being could unite America right now. Three primary issues form the wedge: Fighting terrorism, redistributing income, and accepting controversial behavior.

Progressive Americans want the government to impose high taxes on affluent Americans and spend the money on entitlements like medical treatment for those less well off. Conservative Americans believe this kind of tax imposition goes against the capitalistic system and would greatly damage the economy.

Many progressives also want to change societal norms; they want gay marriage, drug legalization and a general tone of acceptance for actions traditionally deemed unacceptable in America. Traditionalists are appalled at that possibility.

But, by far, the most divisive issue in America today is how to confront worldwide terrorism. According to a new Pew Research Center poll, just 17% of Americans who voted for John Kerry believe using military force is the best way to defeat terrorists. By contrast, 66% of those voting for President Bush think military action is the most effective anti-terror tactic.

That divide is disturbing. If you look at the history of terrorism over the past 22 years, you find again and again that the USA has done little to confront foreign terror killers. In April of 1983, terrorists bombed the U.S. Embassy in Beirut. Ten years later, the first World Trade Center bombing resulted in the deaths of six Americans; more than a thousand others were wounded.

The Khobar Towers bombing in 1996 killed 19 more Americans in Saudi Arabia. The bombings of two U.S. Embassies in Africa left 12 Americans dead in 1998. Two years later, the terrorist attack on the USS Cole resulted in 17 American sailors being buried.

In each of those cases, the core group involved (Hezbollah in Lebanon, Al Qaeda in the others) was not confronted militarily in any serious way. In fact, in the two decades before the 9/11 attack, the government of the United States allowed Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups to grow in strength and ferocity, preferring to talk about the situation rather than confront it.

Senator Edward Kennedy and his supporters want still more conversation. If you go to Kennedy's website, the only terror solution he offers is to enlist the help of our allies in Iraq, and continue to talk to the U.N. about Al Qaeda. I'm sorry, but this is dangerous. The attack on 9/11 happened because we did not attack Al Qaeda soon enough.

America needs a tough, smart military strategy designed to kill as many terrorists as possible. It also needs a consistent, persuasive diplomatic corps to try to enlist reluctant nations to actively fight the terrorists. We should try to make diplomatic deals for the help we need. But if those deals are not forthcoming, we must not back away from hunting the terrorists down, wherever they may be.

The war in Iraq has not gone well, and that is blurring the vision of millions of Americans who somehow believe we can reason our way out of this conflict against the Islamofascists. Go the root causes of terrorism, they wail. If we become a more generous, kinder nation, they will stop trying to kill us.

Sure. And I'm George McGovern. American blood and treasure has freed millions all over the world. We were the good guys then, we are the good guys now. But the bad guys want to kill the good guys, and the words of Ted Kennedy and others will not change that. United we can defeat worldwide terror, divided we cannot. And right now, we're divided.

Source

I agree with everything O'Reilly says EXCEPT that things aren't going too well, and that things are not going well. See, Defiant? Not a very Republican thing to say, "The War in Iraq has not gone well," eh?
But yeah.

-------signature-------

"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews

Arellia
The Quiet One

Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX

Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:31 pm

Republican_Man wrote:

It can be a Republican thing to say, RM. A Republican congressman from Texas was on C-SPAN this week disagreeing with how things are going. I don't think it's gone especially "well" either, but I still think it was right.

As for the elections, it isn't the violence preceeding it that I worry about...it's the chance of the Iraqi's choosing another Saddam. Even though that's their choice, it would be...disappointing.

Puck
The Texan

Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596

Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:43 pm

Tss, how about we just say what we believe instead of worrying about if they are Republican or not

Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus

Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America

Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:52 pm

JanewayIsHott wrote:

Tss, how about we just say what we believe instead of worrying about if they are Republican or not

OMG! What an idea!

-------signature-------

Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars

Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative

Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified

Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:15 pm

Exalya wrote:

Republican_Man wrote:

Yes, I agree with the last. However, things are NOT going that bad in Iraq, truly, only in some areas, and a few scattered areas. However, yes I agree that Republicans can say that this isn't going well, but they would not say it in the way that O'Reilly does. This shows me even more that he is not a Republican.

-------signature-------

"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews

Defiant
Fleet Admiral

Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR

Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:25 am

Ive heard reports of several bombings of election centers. (Fox News)

MJ
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 266

Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:44 am

EDIT - moderator - inappropriate content

Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative

Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified

Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:29 pm

Defiant wrote:

Ive heard reports of several bombings of election centers. (Fox News)

Yes, they are doing that, and they will continue to do that. But you know, if we get 50% of the Iraqis and 40% of the people of Tikrit vote, things are good (40% in Tikrit is as much as DC). So yeah. Sure, this is going to happen, and that's why they're trying to hide the election centers in secret for as long as possible.

--EDIT--

A COMMENTARY

Bill O'Reilly wrote:

The Iraqi Elections and Your Family
Friday, January 28, 2005
By Bill O'Reilly

The election in Iraq and your family, that is the subject of this evening's "Talking Points Memo."

Sunday's vote is a defining moment for America. If the Iraqi people step up and embrace the chance to vanquish terror, the world will be much safer. If they do not, the war on terror will get worse.

Take a look at this map of the Middle East. When Saddam was in power, there were three large countries -- Syria, Iraq and Iran, that were friendly to terrorists. As we know, Saddam supported or tolerated just about every Muslim terror outfit around, including Ansar al-Islam, an Al Qaeda group that operated in northern Iraq during his regime.

Syria openly supports Hezbollah and Hamas. Iran harbors Al Qaeda leaders and funds Hezbollah. So from the Mediterranean Sea to the Afghan border, you had free reign for terrorism.

Now if the Ba'athists and Zarqawi are successful in imposing totalitarianism on Iraq, the situation will get even worse. Al Qaeda will have another safe haven in addition to Iran, and will grow in power and ferocity, threatening all of us in the USA. Have I made the picture clear enough? I hope so.

Again, if the U.S. does not succeed in Iraq, worldwide terror will dramatically increase in power. Enter Senator Edward Kennedy (search), who today gave a speech demanding a timetable for American withdrawal from Iraq. While the senator is right in saying things aren't going well in the war right now, his solution is to systematically pull American troops out, and let the Iraqis pretty much fend for themselves. Whatever happens, happens.

The question is, is Kennedy willing to accept a terror state in Iraq if the forces of evil win? It is a simple question, Senator. "Talking Points" awaits your answer.

If you go to Kennedy's Web site, it emphasizes the need to involve other nations in the fight against terror. Of course, this is a pipe dream.

Here is a vivid example. Italy is one of America's strongest allies in the terror war. The Berlusconi government has helped us immensely. Recently five Muslims were arrested and charged with recruiting homicide bombers inside Italy to be sent to Iraq. This week, those charges were dismissed by Judge Clementina Forleo, who said the men were not terrorists, they were guerrillas, therefore had committed no crime.

The Italian government is outraged, but what that judge did is not unusual. There is sympathy for the terrorist devil all over the world.

Senator Kennedy and other internationalists have a completely unrealistic view of the world. We are fighting for our lives in Iraq. And most Americans don't even know it. The election on Sunday is vital to our safety. I will say it again. If Syria, Iraq and Iran are allowed to support and protect terrorists, there will be a world war in the future that will dwarf anything this planet has ever seen.

And that's "The Memo."
Source

Bill's right, except for that Iraq has been going horrible, of course.

Last edited by Republican_Man on Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:58 pm; edited 2 times in total

-------signature-------

"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews

Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative

Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified

Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:46 pm

NEWS REPORTS

FOX NEWS wrote:

Insurgents Warn Iraqis Not to Vote
Friday, January 28, 2005

BAGHDAD, Iraq � Insurgents killed five American soldiers in separate attacks Friday in Baghdad and blasted more polling stations across the country, sending a message that if Iraqis suffer deaths and injuries on election day, "you have only yourselves to blame."

Jordanian terror mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's (search) group posted a new Web message Friday warning Iraqis that they could get hit by shelling or other attacks if they approach polling stations, which it called "the centers of atheism and of vice."

"We have warned you, so don't blame us. You have only yourselves to blame," it said.

Sunni Arab extremists have vowed to disrupt Sunday's national elections, in which Iraqis will choose a 275-member National Assembly (search) and provincial councils in the country's 18 provinces. Iraqis in the Kurdish-ruled north will chose a new regional parliament.

Officials fear a low turnout in Sunday's vote � particularly among Sunni Arabs � could tarnish the legitimacy of the new government.

Expatriate Iraqis began casting ballots amid tight security in early voting in 14 countries from Australia to Sweden to the United States.

In Baghdad, U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte (search) insisted some Sunnis will turn out to vote. "Sunnis don't only live in some of these beleaguered provinces, they live here in Baghdad, they live in other parts of the country," Negroponte said on CBS's "The Early Show." "I think you're going to see participation across the board."

Nevertheless, opposition to the election appears strong in Sunni areas, and many voters there are expected to stay away, either out of disgust over the process or fear of the insurgents.

In the insurgent stronghold of Ramadi, residents said the rebels decapitated six Iraqis from the majority Shiite community Friday. Shiites, who comprise 60 percent of Iraq's 26 million people, are expected to turn out in large numbers for the election in hopes of gaining power after generations of suppression by minority Shiites.

American soldiers have fanned out from their base at the western edge of the capital to take up positions at smaller garrisons throughout the city so they can respond quickly in case of major attacks on election day.

Insurgents, meanwhile, stepped up their own attacks, killing the five American soldiers in three separate strikes in northern, western and southern Baghdad, according to the U.S. command. More than 1,411 U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq since fighting began in March 2003.

American troops and insurgents exchanged fire on a major Baghdad thoroughfare. The crackle of gunfire could be heard over the noon call to prayer. U.S. fighter jets thundered through the skies over Baghdad throughout the morning in a show of force against the militants.

Those measures, however, have not been enough to stop the violence. A suicide car bomber exploded his vehicle Friday in Baghdad's Doura neighborhood, killing four Iraqi policemen. Hours later, another car bomb exploded on the neighborhood's main road, damaging a school where voters are to cast ballots Sunday. No one was hurt.

Elsewhere, insurgents hit designated polling centers in at least six major cities across the country. Gunmen attacked a school to be used as a polling station in Kirkuk, killing one policeman, officials said.

Bombs blasted three more schools designated as polling sites in the city of Beiji, 155 miles north of Baghdad. A mortar shell landed on a house close to a school believed to be used as polling site in Ramadi, wounding two women and two children, a hospital doctor said.

In southern Iraq, a roadside bomb hit an Iraqi police vehicle, killing one officer and wounding three others, said police Lt. Col. Karim al-Zaydi. The attack occurred in the town of Zubair, south of the port city of Basra.

Also Friday, insurgents shelled a U.S. Marine base south of Baghdad, injuring three American troops and three civilians, the military said.

Source

FOX NEWS wrote:

Iraqi-Americans Go to Polls
Friday, January 28, 2005

SOUTHGATE, Mich. � Cheers, applause, joyful tears and an outpouring of support welcomed many Iraqi expatriates Friday as they began casting their ballots for their home country's first independent elections in more than 50 years.

"This day I was born again � I call this day 'born-again day,'" one voter told FOX News after casting his ballot at a polling station in Southgate, Mich. � one of five U.S. cities where Iraqis can vote in the United States.

"It's the greatest feeling in my life because we belief voting at this time, it's really going to happen � to have democracy and have fair and justice in Iraq," said another voter.

"This is first time for me to vote for Iraq and my country � I'm very happy," one female voter told FOX News.

Iraqi expatriates began casting votes at 7 a.m. inside an abandoned store in this Detroit suburb. Periodically, cheers erupted from one of the 15 polling stations.

An oversized, homemade Iraqi flag hung from the ceiling of the voting site in Southgate. One poll worker was weeping. Security was tight � guards checked IDs as people pulled into the parking lot and metal detectors stood at the doors.

"We feel happy now. This is like America, this voting," said Zoha Yess, 64, who moved to Inkster nine years ago. "We want fair, good government."

Overseas voting continues through Sunday, which is election day in Iraq itself.

Nearly 26,000 Iraqi expatriates (search) in the United States registered to vote during the Jan. 17-25 sign-up period. Registrations in the Detroit area totaled 9,714, while smaller numbers of people registered in Chicago, Nashville, Los Angeles and Washington. They must return to the same site between Friday and Sunday in order to cast their vote. The locations were chosen by the U.S. arm of Iraq's Out-of-Country-Voting program.

An estimated 360,000 Iraqi nationals live in the United States � about 240,000 of whom are eligible to vote in the elections if they registered. Estimates suggest that as many as 1 million Iraqi expatriates across the globe may be eligible to take part in the election. About 900 registration and polling stations were established in approximately 150 locations across the 14 host countries.

There are 275 seats are up for grabs in the Iraqi assembly that will draft Iraq's new constitution, and about 6,000 candidates are vying for those positions.

Based on the estimated 240,000 Iraqis living in the United States, the total who registered represent slightly more than 10 percent of those eligible � people who turned 18 by Dec. 31 and were born in Iraq, are present or former citizens of Iraq or have an Iraqi father.

"We recognize that the Iraqi voting population is spread out, and we never fooled ourselves into thinking we'd reach 100 percent of the population," said Jeremy Copeland of the International Organization for Migration (search), which organized the vote in the United States and 13 other countries.

For other Iraqis, it wasn't time or place that kept them from registering, Copeland said. It was not having documentation, such as an Iraqi passport or a driver's license with a photo, to prove their eligibility or fearing their relatives in Iraq could face reprisal, even though all of the information collected was kept confidential.

Still, Copeland said officials were heartened by stories of intrepid Iraqis, such as a busload of more than 100 who drove from Washington state to Los Angeles last weekend to register.

Ali Almoumineen, a lawyer who left Iraq in 1992 and settled in Nashville, Tenn., is one of those who registered to vote. He remembers Iraq's elections before Saddam Hussein fell.

"The ballot before had Saddam Hussein � yes or no � and if you put no, the bodyguard took you to the jail," said Almoumineen, who now teaches Arabic to U.S. troops.

Edina Lekovic, a spokeswoman for the Muslim Public Affairs Council (search) in Los Angeles, said most Iraqi-Americans didn't believe they would significantly alter the outcome, but felt the symbolic importance of casting a ballot.

"The sense is more often about having the right to vote and the access to vote and being thrilled by the opportunity," Lekovic said.

FOX News' Eric Shawn and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Source

-------signature-------

"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews

Defiant
Fleet Admiral

Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR

Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:48 am

Republican_Man wrote:

Defiant wrote:

Ive heard reports of several bombings of election centers. (Fox News)

We dont even have half of america voting. That would rule to get half of iraq.

Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative

Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified

Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:01 pm

It's 11:00 ET, and polls are now OPEN in Iraq!

-------signature-------

"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews

Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant

Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America

Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:22 pm

Wow, I'll be watching the news for hours.

MJ
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 266

Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:58 am

Weren't there explosions in the green zone near the American embassy (two dead, I believe)? You'd think that they would guard that building well at least, so it doesn't seem that the media is presenting only negative things to me.

Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus

Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America

Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:17 am Re: OFFICIAL Iraqi Elections Thread

Republican_Man wrote:

Actually, I said this could be the official thread, I didn't say the only thread. There are many aspects of the election that can be discussed, it would be stupid to limit it, IMO.

-------signature-------

Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars

Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative

Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified

Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:12 pm Re: OFFICIAL Iraqi Elections Thread

Theresa wrote:

Republican_Man wrote:

Actually, I said this could be the official thread, I didn't say the only thread. There are many aspects of the election that can be discussed, it would be stupid to limit it, IMO.

Oh. Sorry. But this was to discuss ALL ASPECTS of the election

And it's SO great how happy the people are now. And some of you said they didn't want us there

(Even one of the Sunni's urging people not to vote voted.)

Last edited by Republican_Man on Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

-------signature-------

"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews

Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative

Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified

Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:20 pm

FOX News wrote:

Iraqi-Americans Cast Votes With Joy
Sunday, January 30, 2005

SOUTHGATE, Mich. � Iraqi-Americans (search) filled buses, churches and mosques Sunday as they cast absentee ballots in Iraq�s first legitimate election in more than 50 years.

Expatriates had three days to vote, starting Friday and ending at 5 p.m. local time Sunday at each polling station, several hours after the polls closed in Iraq.

"This day I was born again � I call this day 'born-again day,'" a 48-year-old voter told FOX News after casting his ballot at a polling station in Southgate, Mich. (search) � one of five cities where Iraqis can vote in the United States. It was the first time he had ever had the chance to vote in an Iraqi election.

The mood was joyful at the suburban Detroit polling site Sunday as Iraqi voters filled out their ballots and expressed relief that their family members had been able to vote in their native country. There are about 150,000 Iraqis in the United States, with as many as 80,000 in Michigan alone.

Amid dancing and smiles, one election worker banged a tambourine and cheered as voters dropped their paper ballots in boxes.

"I feel like I'm going to cry. This is my first time ever voting," said Zeinab Alkhafaji, 20, of Dearborn.

She cast her vote among friends and family, all of whom left Iraq in 1994. They said they were especially encouraged after talking to family back in Iraq on Sunday morning and learning that relatives there had voted safely.

Many Iraqis in the United States had to drive hundreds of miles to reach polling sites outside five major U.S. cities: Nashville, Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles and Washington. Nearly 26,000 Iraqi expatriates in the United States registered to vote during the Jan. 17-25 sign-up period. To be eligible, voters had to have turned 18 by Dec. 31 and be born in Iraq, be present or former citizens of Iraq or have an Iraqi father.

Registrations in the Detroit area totaled 9,714, while smaller numbers of people registered in the other four cities. Those who registered had to return to the same site between Friday and Sunday in order to cast their vote. The locations were chosen by the U.S. arm of Iraq's Out-of-Country-Voting program.

Most of those who did sign up were thrilled at the chance to participate. The latest available figures showed that about two-thirds of those who did sign up had cast ballots in the first two days.

Estimates suggest that as many as 1 million Iraqi expatriates across the globe may be eligible to take part in the election. About 900 registration and polling stations were established in approximately 150 locations across the 14 host countries.

There are 275 seats are up for grabs in the Iraqi assembly that will draft Iraq's new constitution, and about 6,000 candidates are vying for those positions.

"We recognize that the Iraqi voting population is spread out, and we never fooled ourselves into thinking we'd reach 100 percent of the population," said Jeremy Copeland of the International Organization for Migration, which organized the vote in the United States and 13 other countries.

For other Iraqis, it wasn't time or place that kept them from registering, Copeland said. It was not having documentation, such as an Iraqi passport or a driver's license with a photo, to prove their eligibility or fearing their relatives in Iraq could face reprisal, even though all of the information collected was kept confidential.

Still, Copeland said officials were heartened by stories of intrepid Iraqis, such as a busload of more than 100 who drove from Washington state to Los Angeles last weekend to register.

Ali Almoumineen, a lawyer who left Iraq in 1992 and settled in Nashville, Tenn., is one of those who registered to vote. He remembers Iraq's elections before Saddam Hussein fell.

"The ballot before had Saddam Hussein � yes or no � and if you put no, the bodyguard took you to the jail," said Almoumineen, who now teaches Arabic to U.S. troops.

Edina Lekovic, a spokeswoman for the Muslim Public Affairs Council in Los Angeles, said most Iraqi-Americans didn't believe they would significantly alter the outcome, but felt the symbolic importance of casting a ballot.

"The sense is more often about having the right to vote and the access to vote and being thrilled by the opportunity," Lekovic said.

FOX News' Eric Shawn and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Source

FOX News/AP wrote:

Iraqis Express Pride & Hope
Sunday, January 30, 2005

ASKAN, Iraq � Some couldn't read, but knew their party's identification number on the ballot. Others couldn't see, but were led to the polls by police. Across wide swathes of Iraq, especially in the southern Shiite (search) and northern Kurdish areas, Iraqis went to the polls Sunday, expressing fierce determination and pride, together with hope that the election will improve their hard lives.

"I don't have a job. I hope the new government will give me a job," said one voter, Rashi Ayash, 50, a former Iraqi lieutenant colonel.

From the early hours of Sunday morning, Iraqis stood in long lines that wrapped around street corners, defying militant threats of violence to cast their votes for the 275-member National Assembly. Dozens were killed as militants fired mortars, and in one town, a suicide bomber mingled with voters waiting outside a polling booth.

But people continued to vote undeterred.

"Am I scared? Of course I'm not scared. This is my country," said Fathiya Mohammed, 50.

Security was tight across the country. Iraqi police provided much of the frontline protection, checking women's' handbags and even babies wrapped in blankets, while female Iraqi guards patted down women voters.

Voters heading into a polling station in a boys school in Baghdad's middle-class Karada (search) district were searched twice, first at an outer perimeter about 40 yards from the school. Then they removed their jackets and the batteries from their cellular phones, which have been used in the past to detonate bombs. Finally they walked past coils of barbed wire under the eyes of sharpshooters on nearby rooftops.

Authorities banned cars from voting centers as part of security measures meant to stop car bombings, a rule that left some people struggling to reach the ballot boxes.

In the northern Kurdish city of Sulaymaniyah (search), a man carried 80-year-old Mohammed Karim Khader over his shoulders and trekked the last few steps to the polling station.

At a polling place in eastern Baghdad, an Iraqi policeman in a black ski mask tucked his assault rifle under one arm and held the hand of an elderly blind woman to guide her to the polls.

Fathiya Mohammed shrugged off the incessant threats of violence and donned her head-to-toe abaya before heading to her neighborhood polling station in the small town of Askan south of Baghdad.

"This is democracy," the elderly woman said proudly, holding up a thumb stained with the purple ink used to mark those who had voted. "This is the first day I feel freedom."

Turnout was brisk in mixed Shiite-Sunni neighborhoods like Askan, and in heavily Shiite areas in Baghdad and Basra. Polling stations in heavily Sunni cities such as Fallujah, Ramadi and Samarra were virtually deserted in the morning. By midday hundreds of people were voting in Samarra and the volatile city of Mosul in the north, though there were still big pockets with little turnout.

In the mostly Sunni province of Salaheddin, Gov. Hamad Hmoud Shagti took to the radio to urge voting. "This is a chance for you as Iraqis to assure your and your children's future," he said.

The prospect of impending violence was never far away.

When an unexplained boom sounded near one Baghdad voting station, some women put their hands to their mouths and whispered prayers. Others continued walking calmly to the voting stations. Several shouted in unison: "We have no fear."

Electoral commission official Mijm Towirish said the fact that voters came to the polls showed Iraqis "broke a barrier of fear."

Voters all across the country said they hoped the election would bring them security, jobs and a better future.

"I came here to vote for our goal, which is freedom," said Abu Ahmed, a 55-year-old Shiite voter in Baqouba north of Baghdad.

Source

FOX News/AP wrote:

Zarqawi Group Takes Violence Credit
Zarqawi Group Takes Violence Credit

CAIRO, Egypt � A Web site statement purportedly from insurgency leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's (search) group claimed responsibility Sunday for at least four attacks on polling centers across Iraq.

The group, Al Qaeda in Iraq (search), said its "lions" attacked at least four voting centers in Baghdad, including one in the upscale Mansour neighborhood.

The statement's authenticity could not immediately be verified. It was posted on a Web site noted for carrying militant messages and it was purportedly issued in the name of the group's media coordinator, Abu Maysarah al-Iraqi.

The group claimed to have killed "police, national guards and Americans," without giving specifics. It also claimed responsibility for an attack on the Green Zone (search), the fortified Baghdad enclave holding the U.S. Embassy and Iraqi government buildings, which it called the "Black Zone."

The group also said it was active in the cities of Mosul, Samarra and Baqouba as well as the Anbar province.

Source

FOX News wrote:

Bush: World Hears Freedom's Voice
Sunday, January 30, 2005

WASHINGTON � While the Bush administration had tried to drive down expectations for turnout in Iraq's first legitimate election in decades, by all accounts Iraqis pleasantly surprised just about everyone as voters headed to the polls in droves on Sunday.

Calling the election a resounding success, President Bush said Iraqis have shown their commitment to democracy.

"Today, the people of Iraq have spoken to the world and the world has heard the voice of freedom from the center of the Middle East," he said, adding that Iraqis firmly rejected the anti-democratic ideology of the terrorists and refused to be intimidated by thugs and assassins.

"Men and women have taken righful control of their country's destiny and they have chosen freedom and peace," Bush said.

He also thanked Americans for being "patient and resolute" even during difficult times.

Making the round of morning news shows on the first weekend after her confirmation as secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice (search) said turnout was better than expected.

"This election is, of course, a first step, and what it really says is that the Iraqi people are not prepared to be fearful and intimidated and kept from their right to exercise their voice," Rice said.

She added that Iraqis showed that equal representation is not merely a western value.

"Their bravery and their willingness to go out is really a vote of confidence for Iraq, but it's also a vote of confidence for these values that are universal values," she said.

Voter turnout was expected to be around 8 million eligible voters or 60 percent, according to the Independent Electoral Commission (search). That comes despite considerable morning violence in which nine homicide bombings and mortar strikes at polling stations killed at least 44 people, including the bombers.

Voting in Sunni areas was expected to be lower than predicted, suggesting that the minority Muslims who led the country under Saddam Hussein may not have the representation they would like in the new National Assembly.

Bush stayed in Washington, D.C., this weekend, instead of going to the presidential retreat at Camp David so he could monitor the Iraqi elections. He attended services at St. John's Episcopal Church, across the park from the White House after being briefed on the vote by his new National Security Director Stephen Hadley (search). Churchgoers mentioned the Iraq elections in their weekly prayers.

Bush spent the week urging Iraqis to ignore the threats from terrorist groups threatening violence and to head to the polls. He predicted what he called a "grand moment" in Iraqi history, but he also said in his Saturday radio address that the insurgents would stop at nothing to disrupt the election.

"Yet in the face of this intimidation, the Iraqi people are standing firm ... They know what democracy will mean for their country: a future of peace, stability, prosperity and justice for themselves and for their children," Bush said.

Asked all week how many voters it would take to make the election credible, the president repeatedly said the fact the vote was being held at all made it a success. A FOX News poll taken this week showed that among those surveyed, 50 percent said that 50 percent or better turnout would make Iraq's election legitimate. Another 28 percent said the election is legitimate if under 50 percent of Iraqis vote.

Rice told FOX News Sunday that she talked with Bush about the vote on Sunday morning, and he called it "a great day for the Iraqi people." Several other observers agreed.

"This is a triumphant day," said FOX News contributor Juan Williams, who called the earlier estimated turnout of 72 percent "spectacular."

"The fact that they're having a free election after many, many years is extremely significant in itself," said Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala. "I think this is the beginning of something big and that is freedom in Iraq."

"The willingness of the Iraqi people to vote under the specter of violence speaks to the power of democracy and the passion for freedom," Sen. Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said in a written statement.

"Iraqi people were in chaos ... I think this is a newborn day for them," one Iraqi-American who voted in Michigan, told FOX News.

While the results are not expected for at least a week, Bush will almost certainly cite the Iraqi vote in this week's State of the Union address. Aides said he planned his first full rehearsal of the speech to Congress on Sunday in the White House auditorium.

Bush has said that whoever wins Sunday's vote for a 275-seat National Assembly and 19 regional legislatures, he expects the winner will want U.S. troops in Iraq to stay. British Prime Minister Tony Blair said the coalition will start to turn over security duties to Iraqi troops in some of the country's less violent provinces. A British Hercules C-130 transport plane crashed outside Baghdad on Sunday.

U.S. officials say they expect to keep 120,000 troops in Iraq through the end of next year, down from 150,000 currently there. Rice warned that Sunday's vote won't end the violence.

"I suspect that the insurgents will try to demonstrate that, despite today's vote, they are still a very viable force. And they are, because they're very, very brutal intimidators, and I don't expect that to go away. But what we're doing is we're working with the Iraqis to train their own security forces," she said.

Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., also tempered joy for the occasion during a Sunday morning news show.

"It is hard to say that something is legitimate when whole portions of the country can't vote and doesn't vote," Kerry said.

After the show, he told reporters that the election is also a chance for the United States to begin mending bonds internationally and start considering reducing its presence in Iraq.

"If we do a better job of training; if the training is accelerated and other countries come to the table in the effort to provide and help provide long term security, yes we can begin to reduce American troops. "But those pre-conditions and changing the life of the Iraqis on a day-to-day basis has not happened," Kerry said.

Added Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., who has called the situation in Iraq "George W. Bush's Vietnam": "While the elections are a step forward, they are not a cure for the growing violence and resentment of the perception of an American occupation ... I continue to believe that the best way to demonstrate to the Iraqi people that we have no long-term designs on their country is for the administration to withdraw some troops now and to begin to negotiate a phase-down of our long-term military presence."

While no one expects U.S. troops to pull out anytime soon, the outcome of Sunday's election could affect strategy planning at the White House and Pentagon. So far, more than 1,400 U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq and the United States is spending more than $1 billion a week. The president's advisers indicated last week that Bush is going to seek an $80 billion emergency supplemental bill from Congress to pay for continuing costs there.

"There's more distance to travel on the road to democracy and yet Iraqis have proven they are equal to the challenge," Bush said.

Sunday's vote does not install a permanent government in Iraq. The assembly will create a constitution, which the public will be asked to support. Not until December will permanent regular elections be held.

FOX News' Wendell Goler and Sharon Kehnemui Liss and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Source

FOX News wrote:

Millions Cast Ballots Despite Violence
Sunday, January 30, 2005

BAGHDAD, Iraq � For the first time in more than 50 years, Iraqis cast ballots in democratic elections Sunday and took the first steps to declaring how they wanted Iraq to be governed.

As estimated 8 million people � 60 percent of eligible voters � braved violence and calls for a boycott to vote in Iraq (search). A string of homicide bombings and mortar volleys killed at least 44 people, including nine attackers.

U.S. and Iraqi forces sought to clamp down on violence by imposing a strict curfew and seriously restricting traffic around polling places. About 300,000 Iraqi and American troops were on the streets and on standby to protect voters.

Women in black abayas whispered prayers at the sound of a nearby explosion as they waited to vote at one Baghdad (search) polling station. But the mood for many was upbeat: Civilians and policemen danced with joy at one of the five polling stations where photographers were allowed, and some streets were packed with voters walking shoulder-to-shoulder to vote. The elderly made their way, hobbling on canes or riding wheelchairs; one elderly woman was pushed along on a wooden cart, another man carried a disabled 80-year-old on his back.

"This is democracy," said Karfia Abbasi, holding up a thumb stained with purple ink to prove she had voted.

"The world is hearing the voice of freedom from the center of the Middle East," President Bush told reporters at the White House four hours after the polls closed. He did not take questions.

Condoleezza Rice (search), Bush's new secretary of state, made the rounds of Sunday news talk shows to further argue the president's case.

"Iraqis have taken a huge step forward. And they have hard work ahead of them, but this is a great day for the Iraqi people," Rice told "FOX News Sunday" with Chris Wallace.

Iraqi politicians also cast the elections as a huge success.

Casting his vote, Interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi (search) called it "the first time the Iraqis will determine their destiny."

"We have defeated the terrorists today," Ahmad Chalabi (search), a secular Shiite who is running for the National Assembly on the United Iraqi Alliance list, told FOX News. "The winds of freedom are sweeping across Iraq."

The election will create a 275-member National Assembly and 18 provincial legislatures. The assembly will draw up the country's permanent constitution and will select a president and two deputy presidents, who in turn will name a new prime minister and Cabinet to serve for 11 months until new elections are held.

With Arabs across the Middle East watching the vote, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak telephoned Allawi to congratulate him on the election, saying he hoped it would "open the way for the restoration of calm and stability." The president of the United Arab Emirates also phoned his good wishes.

Looking for Trends Among Religious Groups

Officials said turnout among the 14 million eligible voters appeared higher than the 57 percent that had been predicted, although it would be some time before any turnout figure was confirmed. No preliminary results were expected before Monday at the earliest, and final results will not be known for seven to 10 days, the election commission said.

Polls were largely deserted all day in many cities of the Sunni Triangle (search) north and west of the capital, particularly Fallujah, Ramadi and Beiji. In Baghdad's mainly Sunni Arab area of Azamiyah, the neighborhood's four polling centers did not open at all, residents said.

A low Sunni turnout could undermine the new government that will emerge from the vote and worsen tensions among the country's ethnic, religious and cultural groups.

Shiite Muslims, estimated at 60 percent of Iraq's 26 million people, were expected to vote in large numbers, encouraged by clerics who hope their community will gain power after generations of oppression by the Sunni minority.

"I feel elated, exhilarated in fact, because I think this is a very important step forward," said Adnan Pachachi (search), a prominent Iraqi Sunni politician who had called for the vote to be postponed because of violence.

Pachachi said in an interview with FOX News that he didn't talk about whether Sunnis or Shiites would end up in control. "The division should be between those who want a secularist democracy in Iraq and those who want a religious government," he said.

After a slow start, voting appeared heavy in Shiite and mixed Shiite-Sunni neighborhoods in Baghdad but low in some heavily Sunni areas. Sunnis in mixed areas may have voted in greater numbers there because pressure to boycott was less intense � and chances of retaliation lower because they would not stand out at the polls. There are few ways by sight to distinguish Sunni and Shiite Arabs.

Hadi Nassif Jassem was pushed by his son on a wheeled office chair to a polling station in Baghdad's Saadoun neighborhood.

"The vote today was great. It will raise high the name of the Arab nation and Iraq. We haven't lived such a democracy for 50 years," said the 54-year-old former truck driver, who said he became crippled because surgery he needed could not be done in Iraq.

A ticket endorsed by the country's leading Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, is expected to fare best among the 111 candidate lists. However, no faction is expected to win an outright majority, meaning possibly weeks of political deal-making before a new prime minister is chosen.

The elections will also give Kurds a chance to gain more influence in Iraq after long years of marginalization under the Baath Party that ruled the country for 34 years.

"This proves that we are now free," said Akar Azad, 19, who came to the polls with his wife and sister. In addition to the assembly and provincial votes, Kurds are also choosing a regional parliament for their zone of northern Iraq.

Another Deadly Day in Iraq

In a reminder of the dangers that persist in Iraq, a British C-130 military transport plane crashed north of Baghdad about a half hour after polls closed at 5 p.m. British Prime Minister Tony Blair has confirmed that there were British deaths in the crash, but did not say how many. There was no word on the cause or how many people were on board, but variations of the C-130 in the British Air Force can carry up to 128 infantrymen.

Guerrilla attacks began within two hours of the balloting's start Sunday morning. All but one of the day's nine suicide attacks came in Baghdad, mostly against polling sites, using bombers on foot with explosives strapped to their bodies since private cars were banned from the streets.

In one of the deadliest attacks of the day, a bomber got onto a minibus carrying voters to the polls near Hillah, south of Baghdad, and detonated his explosives, killing himself and at least four other people, the Polish military said.

A deadly mortar volleys hit Baghdad's Shiite neighborhood of Sadr City and others struck voters at several sites in Balad, and Kirkuk in the north and Mahawil south of the capital. Across the country, at least 35 people and nine suicide bombers were killed.

The group Al Qaeda in Iraq, led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, claimed responsibility for election-day attacks in a Web statement, although the claim could not be verified.

A few hours after polls closed at 5 p.m., thunderous explosions reverberated through central Baghdad, though their cause was unknown.

When an unexplained boom sounded near one Baghdad voting station, some women put their hands to their mouths and whispered prayers. Others continued walking calmly to the voting stations. Several shouted in unison: "We have no fear."

"Am I scared? Of course I'm not scared. This is my country," said 50-year-old Fathiya Mohammed, wearing a head-to-toe abaya cloak.

Richard Perle, a former Pentagon adviser now with the conservative American Enterprise Institute think tank, told FOX News it was impossible in the days leading up to the election to determine what the threats of violence would do. But the level of participation, he said, should be seen as the "death knell for the insurgency."

"With Iraqis perhaps for the first time beginning to believe they are in control of their own destiny, the environment in which the insurgents are operating is going to be much less hospitable," Perle said.

In Ramadi, U.S. troops tried to coax voters with loudspeakers, preaching the importance of every ballot. The governor of the mostly Sunni province of Salaheddin, Hamad Hmoud Shagti, went on the radio to lobby for a higher turnout. "This is a chance for you as Iraqis to assure your and your children's future," he said.

Several hundred people turned out to vote in eastern districts of the heavily Sunni city of Mosul � Iraq's third largest city and a center for insurgent violence in past months. But in western parts of Mosul, clashes erupted between guerrillas and Iraqi soldiers.

Just before the close, one official with the Independent Electoral Commission of Iraq put turnout at 72 percent, but he later said that did not include the largely Sunni provinces of Anbar and Nineveh, and the commission said the figure was based on "very rough, word-of-mouth estimates."

Iraqis in 14 nations also held the last of three days of overseas balloting on Sunday.

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan called Sunday's balloting "the first step" toward democracy. "It's a beginning, not an end," he said.

FOX News' Dana Lewis, Geraldo Rivera, Mike Emanuel, Shepard Smith, David Lee Miller, Megan Dowd, J. Jennings Moss and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Source

-------signature-------

"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews

MJ
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 266

Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:28 am

I don't think you can base on the turn out of the elections wheter or not the Iraqi people like the presence of any foreign soldiers. From other sources I have heard them being described as invaders etc. (It was on the Dutch news, so a little hard to post the sources). Great that the elections had such a high turn out though but I think the future has still to prove which way Iraq will be heading. Clearly this doesn't mean that the violence is going to stop.

Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative

Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified

Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:46 pm

MJ wrote:

Sure, violence isn't going to stop. But the elections show that the terrorists aren't winning.
And the Dutch media is Liberal, and they won't tell you the truth. We are NOT disliked there--the FACT IS that the majority of Iraqis DO like our presence there. I'm not basing this off of the elections.

--EDIT--
Besides, would true "occupyers" allow elections to occur? I think not. Would true "occupyers" have freed millions of people from an evil ruler? I think not. They are SO GLAD that we are there and they now have freedoms that they've only dreamed of. I've heard plenty of first hand accouts.

-------signature-------

"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews

Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus

Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America

Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:35 pm

Quote:

Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty. -Samuel Adams

-------signature-------

Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars

MJ
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 266

Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:00 pm

Republican_Man wrote:

MJ wrote:

Just one question, how often do you watch Dutch media?

Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative

Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified

Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:59 pm

MJ wrote:

Republican_Man wrote:

MJ wrote:

Just one question, how often do you watch Dutch media?

Never, but it's European, and they're saying that Iraqis don't like us, don't like us there, and see us as invaders.

-------signature-------

"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews

MJ
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 266

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:28 am

Ok, that is by far the dumbest thing I have ever heard. You have a total black and white view with your "them" and "us", you generalise the whole of Europe into one big opinion, which is *beep*. You also have never ever seen anything that you have and base your on opinion on, do you realise how stupid that is? Maybe you want me to spell it out for you, E-X-T-R-E-M-E-L-Y stupid.

And I'm npt saying that Iraq wasn't freed from Saddam's rule. I've heard several first hand accounts also that they are not too pleased. So really, I don't think it's fair to base anything on that. Unless you're going to hold a representative poll amongst the Iraqi people you can only have a biased opinion on it.

Founder
Dominion Leader

Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:45 am

MJ wrote:

Ok, that is by far the dumbest thing I have ever heard. You have a total black and white view with your "them" and "us", you generalise the whole of Europe into one big opinion, which is *beep*. You also have never ever seen anything that you have and base your on opinion on, do you realise how stupid that is? Maybe you want me to spell it out for you, E-X-T-R-E-M-E-L-Y stupid.

You're from Holland right? So far everyone from Holland on this site is against Bush and the War. I think its safe to say your general population is against it.

And I'm npt saying that Iraq wasn't freed from Saddam's rule. I've heard several first hand accounts also that they are not too pleased. So really, I don't think it's fair to base anything on that. Unless you're going to hold a representative poll amongst the Iraqi people you can only have a biased opinion on it.

I like how you only focus on the negative. Do you hear from the Iraqis who are happy to be free? No. You only hear from the ones who don't like the freedom fight. How convienient.

You get to hear what you want to hear....

MJ
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 266

Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:45 am

Pfft, *beep*. I'm not only negative about things. I'm saying there's two sides of to the story.

And less than 10 people out of a million of 16 million, that's just dumb to say that.

Display posts from previous:

stv-archives.com Forum Index -> World News	Goto Page 1, 2 Next

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Star Trek �, in all its various forms, are trademarks & copyrights of Paramount Pictures
This site has no official connection with Star Trek or Paramount Pictures

Site content/Site design elements owned by Morphy and is meant to only be an archive/Tribute to STV.com