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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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 Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:44 am |
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| Dictionary.com wrote: | Theory
1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
2. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.
3. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics.
4. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.
5. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime.
6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture. |
It doesn't have to be proven, just that it is better if there is facts to back it up.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:51 pm |
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Yes, that would be true if I had just said theory. But I said "Scientific Theory"
[quote="Dictionary.com]scientific theory -
a theory that explains scientific observations; "scientific theories must be falsifiable" [/quote]
Things like Einstien's Theory of Relativity or the Big Bang Theory.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:08 pm |
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This is GREAT news!
| Founder wrote: | I agree. Teaching both should be the way. Not supressing one or the other.
| The Article wrote: | | The small town of Dover, Pennsylvania today became the first school district in the nation to officially inform students of the theory of Intelligent Design, as an alternative to Darwin�s theory of Evolution. |
| The Article wrote: | | Richard Thompson, President and Chief Counsel of the Thomas More Law Center, a national public interest law firm representing the school district against an ACLU lawsuit, commented, �Biology students in this small town received perhaps the most balanced science education regarding Darwin�s theory of evolution than any other public school student in the nation. This is not a case of science versus religion, but science versus science, with credible scientists now determining that based upon scientific data, the theory of evolution cannot explain the complexity of living cells.� |
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Exactly, it's teaching BOTH sides.
| Angeldust wrote: | | Evolution is a THEORY. As is Creationism. They are all THEORIES. That is something that must be stressed to the students. None of these things should be taught as fact. |
Exactly. Good point.
| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | Angeldust wrote: | | Evolution is a THEORY. As is Creationism. They are all THEORIES. That is something that must be stressed to the students. None of these things should be taught as fact. |
Agreed. Teach them all and let them decide. Why is this so difficult for some people? |
Because the world is a place where anyone can sue anyone for anything and win.
Just like a Parent who is Muslim or Hindu or Athiest or Christian will sue a school for teaching their children something that has to do with religion or a religion that isnt theirs. |
The point is that it is NOT a religion. It is just a theory that believes that the universe is too complex for a superior being not to have created it. That's it.
| Founder wrote: | | Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | Because the world is a place where anyone can sue anyone for anything and win.
Just like a Parent who is Muslim or Hindu or Athiest or Christian will sue a school for teaching their children something that has to do with religion or a religion that isnt theirs. |
Im saying teach every form that is out there. Or if we go with Creationism we don't go by Adam and Eve. We go based off the fact that their is a higher power that created us and the Universe. That wouldn't offend anyone if it wasn't strictly Christian, Hindu, Islam, etc. etc. etc. We delve into a little of all of them. The point is to show there is an alternative to two random asteroids banging into each other and a universe spilling out. |
Right.
| Kyre wrote: | | ...the quote of [RM's] used was clearly done to cause incitement. |
Actually, no. You misinterpreted my statement, like I do many of you. That was just my statement saying my support of this, and how I wanted to start debate and get Link's POV. It was NOT meant to cause incitement in NO WAY. Stop putting words into my mouth, like you always do.
| Defiant wrote: | | This is stupid. Seperation between church and state. No creation in schools, its total BS. |
Actually, what you are saying is "BS"  You want ALL students to conform to ONE VIEW with no alternative thought. That's not right. And this is NOT creationism. Please understand that. It is MORE PROVEABLE than Evolution, anyways.
| JanewayIsHott wrote: | Tsss. Creationism is just as valid as evolutionism. It is not like they would be pushing it at all. This is like saying, we can't learn about classical China in World History because China practices Confuscianism and Buddhism, we can't read Greek drama, because of ancient Greek religion, and we can't learn about the Roman empire because it involves a mixture of different religions in it's history. I think for most people this is just more of a personal dislike of Christianity.  |
Right. EXCELLENT points.
| Founder wrote: | | You're right JanewayIsHott. Defiant only says that because he hates Christianity. I guess the idea of its influence spreading makes him cower. Oh well. Too bad. Because this is a great and fair idea. It wouldn't be right just to teach one or the other. You must teach all or nothing. |
Right, yeah. Conform to one view--an athiest, completely secular view--and allow no other perspectives to be spoken. Right, good way to teach students
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:32 am |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | Actully, no it's not. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Ideas like creationism, adamism and such are not Scientific theories. There is no such way to test that an "All mighty God" created the universe and everything in it. Since they cannot be tested, then they cannot go through the scientific method. If they dont go through the method they cannot be considered theories. And Since They are not scientific theories they have no place in a science class room, where scientific theories are taught. |
Actually they can be tested. There has been proof that has been discovered proving certain aspects of the Bible to be truth. Besides thats NOT the point. You can dance around the issue all you want. The fact of the matter is there are many theories on how we are here. It isn't fair that thetheory you all happen to like is the only that is taught. If this rought is taken and you get your one sided view, then a Religious class should become mandatory.
What do we have here? You violated the rules. You gave a one word response. Isn't that what you yell at RM about?
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:55 am |
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| Founder wrote: |
Actually they can be tested. There has been proof that has been discovered proving certain aspects of the Bible to be truth. Besides thats NOT the point. You can dance around the issue all you want. The fact of the matter is there are many theories on how we are here. It isn't fair that thetheory you all happen to like is the only that is taught. If this rought is taken and you get your one sided view, then a Religious class should become mandatory. |
Actully, when I posted that, it WAS the issue at hand.
You don't seem to be grasping the basics here. Religion cannot be taught in schools without someone's parents getting their knickers in a twist and sueing the school.
Now you want to make a religion course Mandatory? Are you trying to shut down the school system?
Maybe if you make it an elective course where people who have parental permission can take it, then maybe you can get away with it.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:01 am |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Founder wrote: |
Actually they can be tested. There has been proof that has been discovered proving certain aspects of the Bible to be truth. Besides thats NOT the point. You can dance around the issue all you want. The fact of the matter is there are many theories on how we are here. It isn't fair that thetheory you all happen to like is the only that is taught. If this rought is taken and you get your one sided view, then a Religious class should become mandatory. |
Actully, when I posted that, it WAS the issue at hand.
You don't seem to be grasping the basics here. Religion cannot be taught in schools without someone's parents getting their knickers in a twist and sueing the school.
Now you want to make a religion course Mandatory? Are you trying to shut down the school system?
Maybe if you make it an elective course where people who have parental permission can take it, then maybe you can get away with it. |
How can you offend someone? The only people that will complain about Creationism being taught in schools are athiests. You are under the impression im talking about the Christian view on creationism being taught only. Im not. Im saying that a piece of ALL Religion should be taught. Im not syaing delve into the details. Just describe how each of them(Islam, Catholism/Christianity,Hindiusm, etc etc etc.) believe how we were made. If all is taught no one will get offended.
I was making a point with the mandatory comment. If you're going to make it mandatory for aithiest views to be taught in science only, then people should be taught Religion as well.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:08 am |
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| Founder wrote: |
How can you offend someone? The only people that will complain about Creationism being taught in schools are athiests. You are under the impression im talking about the Christian view on creationism being taught only. Im not. Im saying that a piece of ALL Religion should be taught. Im not syaing delve into the details. Just describe how each of them(Islam, Catholism/Christianity,Hindiusm, etc etc etc.) believe how we were made. If all is taught no one will get offended.
I was making a point with the mandatory comment. If you're going to make it mandatory for aithiest views to be taught in science only, then people should be taught Religion as well. |
You dont seem to know many uptight Christian Fundementalists. The ones who think that other religions are dirty. It's the same with Athiests and other uptight religious fundementalists.
These are the kinds of people that make up a large part of the US.
Religion is the parent's job, Not the schools.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:15 am |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Founder wrote: |
How can you offend someone? The only people that will complain about Creationism being taught in schools are athiests. You are under the impression im talking about the Christian view on creationism being taught only. Im not. Im saying that a piece of ALL Religion should be taught. Im not syaing delve into the details. Just describe how each of them(Islam, Catholism/Christianity,Hindiusm, etc etc etc.) believe how we were made. If all is taught no one will get offended.
I was making a point with the mandatory comment. If you're going to make it mandatory for aithiest views to be taught in science only, then people should be taught Religion as well. |
You dont seem to know many uptight Christian Fundementalists. The ones who think that other religions are dirty. It's the same with Athiests and other uptight religious fundementalists.
These are the kinds of people that make up a large part of the US.
Religion is the parent's job, Not the schools. |
So you're solution is to just teach aithiesm's POV? You think they will mind their kids learning Islam but not the Big Bang Theory? WRONG! Besides the school aren't teaching them how to convert or whatever. They are just explaining the various possibilites on how we're here.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:14 am |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Religion is the parent's job, Not the schools. |
I completely agree, but in this case Intelligent Design only postulates that an intelligent force is behind the creation of life and the universe, not one specific deity or pantheon of deities. I disagree with Intelligent Design only because I think it bears a striking similarity to the anthropic principle, not because it is non-secular. It is spiritual science, yes, but it is not religious per se unless the schools make it about one religion, which I don't think they'll go about doing, eh.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:31 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | Actully, no it's not. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Ideas like creationism, adamism and such are not Scientific theories. There is no such way to test that an "All mighty God" created the universe and everything in it. Since they cannot be tested, then they cannot go through the scientific method. If they dont go through the method they cannot be considered theories. And Since They are not scientific theories they have no place in a science class room, where scientific theories are taught. |
Actually they can be tested. There has been proof that has been discovered proving certain aspects of the Bible to be truth. Besides thats NOT the point. You can dance around the issue all you want. The fact of the matter is there are many theories on how we are here. It isn't fair that thetheory you all happen to like is the only that is taught. If this rought is taken and you get your one sided view, then a Religious class should become mandatory.
What do we have here? You violated the rules. You gave a one word response. Isn't that what you yell at RM about? |
1. You're right on your comment about Link.
2. Yep, right. He's always pushing a double standard
| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Founder wrote: |
Actually they can be tested. There has been proof that has been discovered proving certain aspects of the Bible to be truth. Besides thats NOT the point. You can dance around the issue all you want. The fact of the matter is there are many theories on how we are here. It isn't fair that thetheory you all happen to like is the only that is taught. If this rought is taken and you get your one sided view, then a Religious class should become mandatory. |
Actully, when I posted that, it WAS the issue at hand.
You don't seem to be grasping the basics here. Religion cannot be taught in schools without someone's parents getting their knickers in a twist and sueing the school.
Now you want to make a religion course Mandatory? Are you trying to shut down the school system?
Maybe if you make it an elective course where people who have parental permission can take it, then maybe you can get away with it. |
1. Teaching Intelligent Design is NOT teaching religion. It's teaching a theory as provable as Evolution, if not moreso.
2. That's ridiculous.
3. Even if it's a Biology course, I've determined, other ideas should be taught.
4. If you ARE going to teach religious ideas, teach ALL the more common ones for American students.
| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Founder wrote: |
How can you offend someone? The only people that will complain about Creationism being taught in schools are athiests. You are under the impression im talking about the Christian view on creationism being taught only. Im not. Im saying that a piece of ALL Religion should be taught. Im not syaing delve into the details. Just describe how each of them(Islam, Catholism/Christianity,Hindiusm, etc etc etc.) believe how we were made. If all is taught no one will get offended.
I was making a point with the mandatory comment. If you're going to make it mandatory for aithiest views to be taught in science only, then people should be taught Religion as well. |
You dont seem to know many uptight Christian Fundementalists. The ones who think that other religions are dirty. It's the same with Athiests and other uptight religious fundementalists.
These are the kinds of people that make up a large part of the US.
Religion is the parent's job, Not the schools. |
There are FEWER of those fundamentalists. And no, referencing other viewpoints is supposed to be taught in schools. It's not right if your uniquely disadvantaging the majority in not allowing other views to be referenced, and intelligent design to be taught.
| Founder wrote: | | Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Founder wrote: |
How can you offend someone? The only people that will complain about Creationism being taught in schools are athiests. You are under the impression im talking about the Christian view on creationism being taught only. Im not. Im saying that a piece of ALL Religion should be taught. Im not syaing delve into the details. Just describe how each of them(Islam, Catholism/Christianity,Hindiusm, etc etc etc.) believe how we were made. If all is taught no one will get offended.
I was making a point with the mandatory comment. If you're going to make it mandatory for aithiest views to be taught in science only, then people should be taught Religion as well. |
You dont seem to know many uptight Christian Fundementalists. The ones who think that other religions are dirty. It's the same with Athiests and other uptight religious fundementalists.
These are the kinds of people that make up a large part of the US.
Religion is the parent's job, Not the schools. |
So you're solution is to just teach aithiesm's POV? You think they will mind their kids learning Islam but not the Big Bang Theory? WRONG! Besides the school aren't teaching them how to convert or whatever. They are just explaining the various possibilites on how we're here. |
| Hitchhiker wrote: | | Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Religion is the parent's job, Not the schools. |
I completely agree, but in this case Intelligent Design only postulates that an intelligent force is behind the creation of life and the universe, not one specific deity or pantheon of deities. I disagree with Intelligent Design only because I think it bears a striking similarity to the anthropic principle, not because it is non-secular. It is spiritual science, yes, but it is not religious per se unless the schools make it about one religion, which I don't think they'll go about doing, eh. |
Exactly.
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Link, the Hero of Time
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Joined: 15 Sep 2001
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Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:27 am |
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RM, You're just proving that you dont read posts, you just skim through them. At no point in time did I ever compare Intelligent Design to religion, nore did I ever dance around a point.
I would like Intellignet Design taught in schools. It gives another view besides the old view of Evolution.
Side note: Referencing other viewpoints such as creationism is NOT supposed to be taught in school. I dont know where you got that tidbit of false information.
And you think this is a problem? You should see what the Bush Administration is passing off for Sex-ed, or health class.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:35 pm |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | RM, You're just proving that you dont read posts, you just skim through them. At no point in time did I ever compare Intelligent Design to religion, nore did I ever dance around a point.
I would like Intellignet Design taught in schools. It gives another view besides the old view of Evolution.
Side note: Referencing other viewpoints such as creationism is NOT supposed to be taught in school. I dont know where you got that tidbit of false information.
And you think this is a problem? You should see what the Bush Administration is passing off for Sex-ed, or health class. |
Oh yeah? All we were talking about for a while WAS intelligent design.
| Quote: |
You don't seem to be grasping the basics here. Religion cannot be taught in schools without someone's parents getting their knickers in a twist and sueing the school.
Now you want to make a religion course Mandatory? Are you trying to shut down the school system? |
| Quote: | | You dont seem to know many uptight Christian Fundementalists. The ones who think that other religions are dirty. It's the same with Athiests and other uptight religious fundementalists. |
These are the kinds of people that make up a large part of the US.
| Quote: | | Religion is the parent's job, Not the schools. |
If you didn't say/imply that, then you REEEEEEAAAAAAALLLLY have to do a better job explaining it. Your position is not clear. And I did read through EACH POST THOROUGHLY!!!
How do you know that I only skim through? I spent over TWO HOURS quoting, reading, pasting into Microsoft word, and responding to these arguments! You were comparing it, and if you weren't, then, please, make it clear in each of your posts.
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Link, the Hero of Time
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Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:05 am |
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then I do suggest you re-read some posts in the begining.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:59 am |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | then I do suggest you re-read some posts in the begining. |
I have read it all. You should have made it more clear. Do you consider Intelligent Design to be religious, and if not, does that give you more justification for believing that it should be taught in schools?
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:35 pm |
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Sexuality is also something that should be taught at home, but they are starting teaching it at schools in kindergarten now.
I find it odd that when something supports a liberal view point, it's ok to teach it to our children, but if it opposes it, it doesn't belong.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:01 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | Sexuality is also something that should be taught at home, but they are starting teaching it at schools in kindergarten now.
I find it odd that when something supports a liberal view point, it's ok to teach it to our children, but if it opposes it, it doesn't belong. |
Agreed, but KINDERGARTEN! I didn't even know THAT! That's WAY to young! If you live in the inner-city or some bad part of town, just say, "If someone tries to touch you below your waste, run away." Don't go into any greater detail.
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IntrepidIsMe
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Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:10 pm |
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Hahahaha. That was a silly example, 
Yeah, kindgergaten is a bit young. I mean, sheesh. What do five year olds know about that kind of thing? They just learned the alphabet...
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