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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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 Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:28 pm EU May Ban Swastika After Harry Outrage |
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EU May Ban Swastika After Harry Outrage
Monday, January 17, 2005
BRUSSELS, Belgium � The European Union (search) may consider banning Nazi symbols in its 25 member nations after Britain's Prince Harry (search) wore a swastika armband to a costume party, the bloc's top justice official said Monday.
Franco Frattini, the EU's justice and home affairs commissioner, said he was open to discussing the issue at a Jan. 27 meeting of EU justice ministers.
"It may be worth looking into the possibility of a total ban, a Europe-wide ban," his spokesman, Friso Roscam Abbing, told reporters Monday. "Commissioner Frattini shares the general feeling of opprobrium on the use of the swastika and other Nazi symbols."
The call came after several German conservatives, socialists and liberal democrats in the European Parliament urged a European ban following a scandal last week over photos published worldwide of Harry, third in line to the British throne, wearing the Nazi outfit.
German Socialist Helmut Kuhne called Harry a "royal idiot" for not knowing the consequences and World War II history linked to the Nazi swastika.
Germany already bans such symbols.
But British Liberal Democrat Chris Davies questioned the need to ban the swastika.
"I understand how the burden of history weighs upon my German colleagues' view," he said. "However, banning symbols cannot ban evil and risks playing into the hands of those who would seek to subvert the very liberties we most champion."
Roscam Abbing said Frattini would urge EU ministers to use the swastika incident to push for agreement on EU-wide rules to combat racism, fascism and anti-Semitism.
A proposal was introduced two years ago but discussions have failed to make headway. Roscam Abbing said officials would take care not to violate freedom of expression in devising such a ban.
Frattini's decision to look into an EU-wide ban could further embarrass Queen Elizabeth II, who is to lead British commemorations of the Holocaust (search) in London later this month.
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Awww, I'm sorry Dirkie   ...I am sure you can manage somehow though.... 
But seriously, how would that work? Is the EU going to go around banning anything that has symbolized evil  ?
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:48 pm |
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Silly, as the swastika is actually a symbol of peace....
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:45 pm |
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I think harry is an *donkey*, but freedom of speech is freedom of speech. His actions didn't harm anyone else, or violate their freedoms.
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MJ
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 266
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| Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:22 am |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Silly, as the swastika is actually a symbol of peace.... |
Actually, it's peace and luck,  But it's not silly at all, espcially placed in the context of a Nazi uniform, it's often very offensive to Germans and the like and I don't think racism was ever intented to be part of freedom of speech. You guys aren't really allowed to wear those KKK hoodies everywhere you go right?
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:42 am |
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| MJ wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Silly, as the swastika is actually a symbol of peace.... |
Actually, it's peace and luck, But it's not silly at all, espcially placed in the context of a Nazi uniform, it's often very offensive to Germans and the like and I don't think racism was ever intented to be part of freedom of speech. You guys aren't really allowed to wear those KKK hoodies everywhere you go right? |
The "KKK hoodies" are not a symbol of peace nor were they ever. You said it yourself. "...placed in the context...". He of course was dressed like a Nazi so its safe to see what he was supposed to be but banning it altogether? A lil too much.
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MJ
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 266
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| Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:08 am |
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I'm confident about 99.99% of the Europeans associate a swatsika with the nazi regime.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:29 pm |
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| MJ wrote: | | I'm confident about 99.99% of the Europeans associate a swatsika with the nazi regime. |
They do 100%, and this is fine. Banning this and KKK clothing is fine.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Five - seveN
Rear Admiral
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 3567
Location: Shadow Moon
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| Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:27 pm |
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Well, actually, the Nazis just took this this religious symbol and used it for their own silly business, and I certainly think it shouldn't be banned.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:42 pm |
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| MJ wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Silly, as the swastika is actually a symbol of peace.... |
Actually, it's peace and luck, But it's not silly at all, espcially placed in the context of a Nazi uniform, it's often very offensive to Germans and the like and I don't think racism was ever intented to be part of freedom of speech. You guys aren't really allowed to wear those KKK hoodies everywhere you go right? |
Oh, shoulda known Peace AND Luck,
People can wear those silly KKK clothes if they want... Not that they'd be respected, and probably beat up. But either way, the KKK is still a legitimate organization.
Last edited by IntrepidIsMe on Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Pah-Wraith
Sheikh
Joined: 30 Nov 2001
Posts: 6012
Location: Londonistan.
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| Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:49 pm |
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The Swastika has been the Symbol for Peace in the Hindu religion for at least 3000 years now, unless you ban all faith symbols then why ban the Swastika? I can understand banning the Nazi Uniform but not the Swastika itself.
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MJ
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 266
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| Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:16 pm |
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Because it's also a symbol that represents genocide and hatred?
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:18 pm |
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Yes, however its also meant peace for a longer period of time. You can interpret symbols in any way you want. I'm sure some cultures find the Christian cross offensive. After all, the Catholic church also comitted genocide, just not recently.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:22 pm |
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Symbolism is everything 
But on that note, they shouldn't ban it for several reasons. The first one is freedom of expression, of course. Obviously people should be responsible when using this particular symbol, but they should be allowed to use it. For example, what if someone was doing a history project about Nazi Germany--what if they wanted to make a movie about WWII? Will I still be allowed to watch Hogan's Heros? 
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MJ
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 266
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| Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:09 am |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Yes, however its also meant peace for a longer period of time. You can interpret symbols in any way you want. I'm sure some cultures find the Christian cross offensive. After all, the Catholic church also comitted genocide, just not recently. |
Good point, but taken into account that 99.99% of Europe associates it with nazis in one way or another, it's not all that valid. And ofcourse historical purposes are something else, since it's being used for research then. Also, I must say that practicly it's not going to happen and it will be more of symbolic thing anyway. So the 5 people in the EU that want to worship swatsikas for other than reasons related to hitler will be free to do so.
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:31 am |
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| Founder wrote: | | MJ wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Silly, as the swastika is actually a symbol of peace.... |
Actually, it's peace and luck, But it's not silly at all, espcially placed in the context of a Nazi uniform, it's often very offensive to Germans and the like and I don't think racism was ever intented to be part of freedom of speech. You guys aren't really allowed to wear those KKK hoodies everywhere you go right? |
The "KKK hoodies" are not a symbol of peace nor were they ever. You said it yourself. "...placed in the context...". He of course was dressed like a Nazi so its safe to see what he was supposed to be but banning it altogether? A lil too much. |
The "KKK hoodie" has a religious meaning which is not violent in any way in Spain.
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