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U.S. Ends Search For Iraq's WMDs: None Found
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Does the failure to find WMDs mean the decision to go to war was wrong?
Yes
33%
 33%  [ 4 ]
No
66%
 66%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 12

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Puck
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PostWed Jan 12, 2005 11:13 pm    U.S. Ends Search For Iraq's WMDs: None Found

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Official: U.S. calls off search for Iraqi WMDs
Bush stands by decision to go to war, spokesman says


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. inspectors have ended their search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in recent weeks, a U.S. intelligence official told CNN.

The United States is taking steps to determine how it received erroneous intelligence that deposed Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was developing and stockpiling nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Wednesday.

"Our friends and allies had the same intelligence that we had when it came to Saddam Hussein," he said. "Now we need to continue to move forward to find out what went wrong and to correct those flaws.

"That's exactly what the independent commission the president appointed is going to do," McClellan said. "They're going to make recommendations, and the president is committed to acting on those recommendations."

At the same time, he said, President Bush stands by the decision to invade Iraq.

"We had a regime that had a history of using weapons of mass destruction and had a history of defying the international community and had a history of ties to terrorist organizations in Iraq," he said. "We had the attacks on September 11 [2001], that taught us we must confront threats before it's too late.

"That's what the president's committed to doing," he said. "Because this is about making America more secure."

The search ended almost two years after President Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq, saying intelligence indicated Saddam was building weapons of mass destruction and may have hidden weapons stockpiles.

Members of the Iraq Survey Group were continuing to examine hundreds of documents and would investigate any new leads, the U.S. intelligence official said.

Charles A. Duelfer, who headed the Iraq Survey Group's search for WMD in Iraq, has returned to the United States and is working on his final report, the official said.

Many of the military and intelligence personnel who had been assigned to the weapons search are now working on counterinsurgency matters, the official said.

Asked whether the Bush administration planned to announce the end of the physical WMD search, McClellan deferred to Duelfer.

"I think it's up to him to make those determinations," McClellan said.

State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said though the search for WMD yielded no results, the United States, based on "extensive intelligence," believed before it invaded Iraq that Saddam was intent on acquiring them.

A State Department program has employed about 120 Iraqi scientists with expertise in WMD to undertake research in other fields of science, he said.

A spokesman for the British Foreign Office said that though the physical search is over, some work continues.

"The hunt for WMD will continue under whatever authority is in charge, right now the Iraqi interim government," he said.
Invasion defended

In October, Duelfer released a preliminary report finding that in March 2003 -- the month of the invasion -- Saddam did not have any WMD stockpiles and had not started any program to produce them.

The Iraq Survey Group report said that Iraq's WMD program was essentially destroyed in 1991 and Saddam ended the country's nuclear program after the Persian Gulf War in 1991.

The report found that Iraq worked hard to cheat on United Nations-imposed sanctions and retain the capability to resume production of weapons of mass destruction at some time in the future. (Full story)

"[Saddam] wanted to end sanctions while preserving the capability to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction when sanctions were lifted," a summary of the report said.

After Duelfer delivered his Iraq Survey Group's report to the Senate, Bush acknowledged that Iraq didn't have weapons of mass destruction at the time he ordered the invasion but said Saddam was "systematically gaming the system" and that the world is safer because he is no longer in power.

The preliminary report indicated that Saddam hoped to restart his weapons programs primarily for defense against Iran.

At the same time, the report said that "the former regime had no formal written strategy or plan for the revival of WMD after the sanctions."

The report found that Iraq's "ability to reconstitute a nuclear weapons program progressively decayed" after 1991 -- and a nuclear weapon would have been years away.

Bush reiterated in October his position that Saddam had to go.

"He was a threat we had to confront, and America and the world are safer for our actions," he said. Democrats, however, didn't buy the president's position.

Bush's opponent in the presidential race, Sen. John Kerry, said the same day: "Mr. President, the American people deserve more than spin about this war.

"They deserve facts that represent reality, not carefully polished arguments and points that are simply calculated to align with a preconceived conception."

In Britain, Prime Minister Tony Blair faced similar criticism.

He told his party's annual conference in September that the "evidence about Saddam having actual biological and chemical weapons, as opposed to the capability to develop them, has turned out to be wrong."

"I can apologize for the information that turned out to be wrong," Blair said. "But I can't, sincerely at least, apologize for removing Saddam."

CNN's Barbara Starr and Elise Labott contributed to this report.



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Last edited by Puck on Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total


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Republican_Man
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PostWed Jan 12, 2005 11:17 pm    

I'll type specifics tomorrow, but Hannity talked today about things that are WMDs. I believe that WMDs were discovered.


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Hitchhiker
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PostWed Jan 12, 2005 11:23 pm    

Quote:
Does the failure to find WMDs mean the decision to go to war was wrong?

I voted No in this poll.

I think that the decision to 'go to war' as you are now terming it was indeed wrong. Failure to find WMDs may be part of it, but there's more to it, as I've said elsewhere. Even had WMDs been found, the decision would still be wrong in my opinion.


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LightningBoy
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PostWed Jan 12, 2005 11:57 pm    

The question in the poll is invalid.

We didn't fail to find WMD. We just didn't find enough of them to satisfy the left. Fact is, no amount would be enough to satisfy the left.

Groundbreaking discoveries in Iraq have been sweapt under the rug by the media many times. You rarely ever hear about the Al Samoud missiles marked to be loaded with Chemical warheads, or the Canister of Mustard gas they found.

Fact is, a while back I read a headline on AP saying that they found the motherlode, two hours later, that headline was gone and no more was said. Probably was a false alarm, but what triggered it? It raises questions about the media.


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Republican_Man
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 12:02 am    

LightningBoy wrote:
The question in the poll is invalid.

We didn't fail to find WMD. We just didn't find enough of them to satisfy the left. Fact is, no amount would be enough to satisfy the left.

Groundbreaking discoveries in Iraq have been sweapt under the rug by the media many times. You rarely ever hear about the Al Samoud missiles marked to be loaded with Chemical warheads, or the Canister of Mustard gas they found.

Fact is, a while back I read a headline on AP saying that they found the motherlode, two hours later, that headline was gone and no more was said. Probably was a false alarm, but what triggered it? It raises questions about the media.


EXACTLY. Again, he strikes like Lightning!
As I said, tomorrow I'm going to list evidence of WMDs, as provided by the Great American, Sean Hannity.



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Link, the Hero of Time
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 12:15 am    

But look at it from the other side;

Most of what they found were remnants of the Gulf war. They were old and not well taken care of. This means they were Useless, no longer a threat.


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Republican_Man
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 12:15 am    

Link, the Hero of Time wrote:
But look at it from the other side;

Most of what they found were remnants of the Gulf war. They were old and not well taken care of. This means they were Useless, no longer a threat.


Not true, actually.



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Link, the Hero of Time
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 12:19 am    

clip from FoxNEWS dated May 17th, 2004

Quote:
Two weeks ago, U.S. military units discovered mustard gas that was used as part of an IED. Tests conducted by the Iraqi Survey Group (search) � a U.S. organization searching for weapons of mass destruction � and others concluded the mustard gas was "stored improperly," which made the gas "ineffective."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html


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Republican_Man
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 12:20 am    

Link, the Hero of Time wrote:
clip from FoxNEWS dated May 17th, 2004

Quote:
Two weeks ago, U.S. military units discovered mustard gas that was used as part of an IED. Tests conducted by the Iraqi Survey Group (search) � a U.S. organization searching for weapons of mass destruction � and others concluded the mustard gas was "stored improperly," which made the gas "ineffective."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html


That's one instance. You neglect others, as stated by LightningBoy, for instance, and tomorrow when I get the chance I will type up more.



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Link, the Hero of Time
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 12:21 am    

no, I didn't neglect others, I brought up one point that proved you wrong.

Simple, concise and to the point.

I'll grab the other official reports after work.


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LightningBoy
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 12:22 am    

Link, the Hero of Time wrote:
others concluded the mustard gas was "stored improperly," which made the gas "ineffective."


Just goes to show that they had it. It doens't matter whether or not it was effective. They had it. WHY? Remnants of the gulf war? They should've turned it all over. They tried to keep it for a reason.

If I'm a criminal, and I have a gun, I can't claim, "Its a remnant from before I committed a crime.", ten years later. That doesn't make it better.


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Republican_Man
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 12:24 am    

LightningBoy wrote:
Link, the Hero of Time wrote:
others concluded the mustard gas was "stored improperly," which made the gas "ineffective."


Just goes to show that they had it. It doens't matter whether or not it was effective. They had it. WHY? Remnants of the gulf war? They should've turned it all over. They tried to keep it for a reason.

If I'm a criminal, and I have a gun, I can't claim, "Its a remnant from before I committed a crime.", ten years later. That doesn't make it better.


Wow! That is a GREAT point! Yeah, we've found them. Isn't that enough for the left? No, no it's not, I guess. Especially one of the biggest liars on the planet...Michael Moore.



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Link, the Hero of Time
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 12:31 am    

LightningBoy wrote:

Just goes to show that they had it. It doens't matter whether or not it was effective. They had it. WHY? Remnants of the gulf war? They should've turned it all over. They tried to keep it for a reason.

If I'm a criminal, and I have a gun, I can't claim, "Its a remnant from before I committed a crime.", ten years later. That doesn't make it better.


Makes all the difference seeing as how if it's ineffective then it's useless.

Your analogy is hoorendously wrong in trying to make a point.

It should go along something like this;

you are a criminal and cops unjustly raided your house, they find a gun that is in such disrepair it's not even a threat and they still arrest you for having it.


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LightningBoy
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 12:36 am    

How can you say "unjustly raided you house".

Anywho, if i'm a cop, and I JUSTLY raid a house because a judge "the congress" said they have a gun, because the police chief "the UN" said they have a gun, and because most of the public in the area "the majority of US population" thought they had a gun; and I find a delapitated old gun hidden somewhere. I will call it evidence, and convict the CRIMINAL.


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Founder
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 4:46 am    

Link, the Hero of Time wrote:
no, I didn't neglect others, I brought up one point that proved you wrong.

Simple, concise and to the point.

I'll grab the other official reports after work.


Yes you did neglect the others. There is no sense in acting like a child about it.

I think that there are WMD in Iraq. Just because we haven't found them doesn't mean that they aren't there. I wish ONE person could answer this.

Why is it so hard to believe that he didn't either:
A) Sold them
B) Hid them(His country is a giant desert.)
C) Dismantle them
D) Smuggle them out of the country


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Leo Wyatt
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 5:42 am    

u liberals always think that you are right when you could possibly be wrong.

I am not saying I am right but I do know that there were WMDS but why still fight over it now.

Just worry about yourselves and your own lives instead of worrying about this crap.

People just like to argue all the time.


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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 10:29 am    

Hell yea there was no need for the war No WMD's = No War what could sadam do use harsh langauge? there was no need for this war and look what has happened over 1300 of our troops dead now.

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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 10:39 am    

it was kinda funny. American inspector coming too iraq too find WMD's and then they get there and the iraqi people tell them they have places where they may not search for them. Obviously thats where the WMD lay and now they are gone, flown too Africa again or something.


Its stupid



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LightningBoy
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 4:46 pm    

Jeff Miller wrote:
Hell yea there was no need for the war No WMD's = No War what could sadam do use harsh langauge? there was no need for this war and look what has happened over 1300 of our troops dead now.


Again, we DID find WMD's. Just not enough to satisfy you people.

Don't the mass graves tell you something? How about the banned missiles marked for chemical warheads? Come on...


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Republican_Man
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 4:53 pm    

LightningBoy wrote:
How can you say "unjustly raided you house".

Anywho, if i'm a cop, and I JUSTLY raid a house because a judge "the congress" said they have a gun, because the police chief "the UN" said they have a gun, and because most of the public in the area "the majority of US population" thought they had a gun; and I find a delapitated old gun hidden somewhere. I will call it evidence, and convict the CRIMINAL.


GREAT analogy, and RIGHT ON.
Yes. If there is a perceived threat, and almost everyone agrees to it, action MUST take place. You Liberals...you know, if we didn't go to war and Saddam attacked us, what would you be saying now, hmmmm?



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borgslayer
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 5:03 pm    

If the WMDs exist then they simply cannot find it.

" Many people who went and found some possible WMDs have said that those things they found are not WMDs because they no threat to people "

So the truth is people have given up searching for any WMDs because it simply doesn't exist or they are just tired of searching for it.


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Republican_Man
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 5:17 pm    

You make up your mind, but you tell me if these constitute WMDs. I say yes. So you tell me if I (and Hannity) am right, or if the mainstream media and left-wing Democrats are right. Now, I quote the Great Sean Hannity:

"In April, 2003 US Weapons Inspectors took control of 500 tons of Uranium that Saddam kept stored at his former Nuclear Weapons developement plant just south of Baghdad. British nuclear physisist (can't make out the name, Norman D. something, I believe) estimated that if they had been fully enriched, Saddam's Uranium stockpile could have produced 142 Hiroshima-sized nuclear bombs. ...So you can either believe the Media, that says that no Weapons of Mass Destruction were found, or you could think, 'Hey, that sounds like a Weapon of Mass Destruction to me, or potential.'

Then in June of 2004, the US Energy Department took posession of 1.8 tons of partially enriched Uranium that had been stored in the same nuclear facility, saying that the banned material could have been used to produce so-called 'Dirt Bombs.'"

"...When he was debriefed by US intelligence in late 2003, Dr. Madi Obidi (something like that), this guy, remember, he was Saddam's chief scientist incharge of perfecting centerfuge (I think) technology. Remember the NY Times article on this? It revealed that he had been ordered under Penalty of Death to hide top-secret centerfuge plans along with some actual components and keep them ready for future use. His documents appear in his 2004 book, if you recall, 'The Bomb in my Garden.'"

"...Or in July of 2003, a US Marine on patrol outside of Baghdad stumbled over a metal object...and then after a little digging with his hands, he determined that the object was the tail-fin of an aircraft. ...Before the escavation team was out, they discovered 30 state-of-the-art Ruassian-built combat aircraft. The find represented approximately 1/3 of Saddam's Gulf War-era airforce. Iraqi technicians had carefully packed the aircrafts to make sure that they could be used in the future."

"Then, in August of 2003, an Iraqi survey group--this is the one led by Charles Dufler--announced that they had found dozens of unexploded artiliary shells loaded with sarin gas and blistering agents."

"Then, in February of 2003, in his speech to the United Nations, Colin Powell played those audio tapes of Iraqi military officials talking about getting rid of Weapons of Mass Destruction that they had in late 2002. Remember, for example, the Iraqi Colonel said, quote, 'We have this modified vehicle. What do we say if one of them sees it?' Then the Iraqi general responds, 'I'll come see you in the morning. I'm worried. You all have something left.' The Colonel says, 'We've evacuated everything. We don't have anything left.' The General, 'I'll come see you tomorrow.' What do you think they were hiding?"

"In August 2004, the Washington Times reported, 'Saddam Hussein periodically removed guards on the Syrian border and replaced them with his own intelligence agents, who supervised the movement of banned materials between the two countries, US investigators have discovered. Two defense sources told the Washington Times that those Iraqis who've been interviewed, who've told of Saddam dispatching his trusted Iraqi intelligence service members to the border where they would send border inspectors away. The ship was followed by movement of trucks in and out of Syria suspected of carrying materials banned by UN sanctions. Once the shipments were made, the agents would leave, and the regular border patrol guards would resume their post.'"

"...we know he had them. We know he used them. We know that he never cooperated. And for this to be held out by the left as a constant montra of attack against President Bush shows me that they are still working to undermine this war effort, and the people that are involved in it."

Alright, so you make up your own mind. But if these don't prove WMDs, then I'm Michael Moore. How could bush have lied?



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Link, the Hero of Time
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 5:25 pm    

Founder wrote:

Yes you did neglect the others. There is no sense in acting like a child about it.


I'm not getting into the flame game with you, there's no point. I posted that at 12 something this morning, I had to get up for work at 6:30, All I had time for was one point.

deal with it.


Rbgirl wrote:
u liberals always think that you are right when you could possibly be wrong.


I never think I'm right unless I have evidence to back me up.

And it's not just liberals, look past the blindfold you use to keep out the truth. Bringing parties into it only shows the failed last attemps at make a point.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/2004/isg-final-report/

Here's the Iraqi Survey Groups Final report. I read most of it and it basically states that Iraq's ability to build weapons were limited. While they did cheat UN inspectors to keep what weapon building technology they had, They wouldn't have been able to make anything for a long time.


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Republican_Man
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 5:27 pm    

Link, the Hero of Time wrote:
Founder wrote:

Yes you did neglect the others. There is no sense in acting like a child about it.


I'm not getting into the flame game with you, there's no point. I posted that at 12 something this morning, I had to get up for work at 6:30, All I had time for was one point.

deal with it.


Rbgirl wrote:
u liberals always think that you are right when you could possibly be wrong.


I never think I'm right unless I have evidence to back me up.

And it's not just liberals, look past the blindfold you use to keep out the truth. Bringing parties into it only shows the failed last attemps at make a point.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/2004/isg-final-report/

Here's the Iraqi Survey Groups Final report. I read most of it and it basically states that Iraq's ability to build weapons were limited. While they did cheat UN inspectors to keep what weapon building technology they had, They wouldn't have been able to make anything for a long time.


Sure, it's not just Liberals. But it's the Liberals that are trying to undermine our war effort.
And I believe what Hannity reported from a variety of sources. We did not go to war for false reasons.



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Link, the Hero of Time
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PostThu Jan 13, 2005 5:29 pm    

Why do you keep bringing political parties into it?

I know plenty of people on all sides that disagree with this war.


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