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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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 Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:52 pm "Bush Lied" |
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This seems to be a fact with the left.
I'd like to see where and when he lied.
Did he lie about WMD? Well, if he did, no did John Kerry, Hillary Clinton and the rest of those in congress who said he was right. By the way, we've found Al Samoud weapons banned by the UN, as well as many others. As well as a canister of mustard gas, and several warheads labeled for chemical weapon insertion.
Did he lie about Hussein's regime? No. We found the mass graves, torture chambers, and stolen money.
Did he lie about the terrorist connections? No. Since the war ended, we've seen what has come about to defend the evil in Iraq. Al Qaeda, Hamas, and Al Sadr's group have all been present in Iraq. In fact OBL's right hand man was medically treated and sheltered by Hussein's regimes a few years ago. The connections are all there.
How can someone day that Bush lied? Nothing he's said has shown to even by inequivocally untrue. Perhaps, you could argue, he made mistakes, but to flat out present "he lied" as fact; is ridiculous. So, please, stop saying that. 
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:56 pm |
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All politicians lie, have lied, and will lie . . . politics is an art of misdeception, misconception, skill and connivery. The most skilled politicans are those who can manipulate people into manipulating themselves. The most successful politicians are either those who are extremely skilled, or too naive to be subverted.
But of course lie and truth remain completely subjective. I don't think Bush is a total liar . . . yet obviously he is presenting facts that were originally gathered at the scene of a location across an ocean, by someone who gave those facts to their superior, who gave the facts to their superior, and so on and so on. It's like the telephone game, each link in the chain increases the chance of inaccuracy.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:59 pm Re: "Bush Lied" |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | This seems to be a fact with the left.
I'd like to see where and when he lied.
Did he lie about WMD? Well, if he did, no did John Kerry, Hillary Clinton and the rest of those in congress who said he was right. By the way, we've found Al Samoud weapons banned by the UN, as well as many others. As well as a canister of mustard gas, and several warheads labeled for chemical weapon insertion.
Did he lie about Hussein's regime? No. We found the mass graves, torture chambers, and stolen money.
Did he lie about the terrorist connections? No. Since the war ended, we've seen what has come about to defend the evil in Iraq. Al Qaeda, Hamas, and Al Sadr's group have all been present in Iraq. In fact OBL's right hand man was medically treated and sheltered by Hussein's regimes a few years ago. The connections are all there.
How can someone day that Bush lied? Nothing he's said has shown to even by inequivocally untrue. Perhaps, you could argue, he made mistakes, but to flat out present "he lied" as fact; is ridiculous. So, please, stop saying that. |
EXACTLY. Again, you strike like Lightning.
But yes. If Bush lied, so did the following countries, congressmen, and others:
1. The CIA
2. CIA Director George Tenet called it a "slam dunk"
3. France
4. Russia
5. Germany
6. China
7. Un (UN) (5 groups involved in Oil for Food  )
8. UK
9. Jordan
10. Egypt
11. Australia
12. John Kerry
13. Ted Kennedy
14. Joe Lieberman
15. Bill Clinton
16. Hilary Clinton
17. John Edwards
18. Need I go on? Congress voted for force!
(PS: Tach, he means about Iraq . And no, all politicians do NOT lie.)
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:00 am |
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I like you hitchhiker. Though our opinions usually differ, you actually think through things well. Unlike some others on the board on both sides.
Just wanted you to know, I do appreciate a well thought out response, with ANY resonable opinion.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:01 am |
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Well it isn't hard to see how people could think that he is a liar. I mean, I can, even though I don't feel that he actually is. But I mean, if we actually looked at the facts here, the answer could be quite easy to find. Let's look at a few primary issues.
First, many people were "disenchanted" with the 2000 elections, and feel that Bush didn't rightfully become President to begin with, thus, deeply damaging their trust in him.
Second, I don't really keep up with this too much, so I won't go into detail, but their is all that controversy with Cheney.
Third, he hurried into Iraq claiming that their could be nukes, chemical, and biological weapons there, or being made. Two years later, where are they?
Fourth, they listen to silly people like Michael Moore, just as many Republicans listen to Rush Limbaugh. That never helps the case.
Soooo, even if you don't agree with it, I don't think it is that hard to at least see where some people are coming from when they call him a "liar" and says he is "misleading America".
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:03 am |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | Well it isn't hard to see how people could think that he is a liar. I mean, I can, even though I don't feel that he actually is. But I mean, if we actually looked at the facts here, the answer could be quite easy to find. Let's look at a few primary issues.
First, many people were "disenchanted" with the 2000 elections, and feel that Bush didn't rightfully become President to begin with, thus, deeply damaging their trust in him.
Second, I don't really keep up with this too much, so I won't go into detail, but their is all that controversy with Cheney.
Third, he hurried into Iraq claiming that their could be nukes, chemical, and biological weapons there, or being made. Two years later, where are they?
Fourth, they listen to silly people like Michael Moore, just as many Republicans listen to Rush Limbaugh. That never helps the case.
Soooo, even if you don't agree with it, I don't think it is that hard to at least see where some people are coming from when they call him a "liar" and says he is "misleading America". |
Rush Limbaugh is different from Moore. Moore's only equivalents that I've seen on the Right are Ann Coulter and Michael Savage.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:04 am |
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Oh right...Rush is a druggie, I forgot  .
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:06 am |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Oh right...Rush is a druggie, I forgot . |
Cheap shot! Cheap shot!
Things are different in these situations. But also, when someone gets addicted to something when taking it for medical purposes and gets addicted, it's not his fault. Although I am in NO WAY condoning what he did. But Rush is a good man, a great American, and America's Truth Detector.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:06 am |
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I like Michael Savage, his points are actually well thought out and resoned. He doesn't embelish or falsify facts like Moore does, and I don't think Coulter does either.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:07 am Re: "Bush Lied" |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | And no, all politicians do NOT lie.) |
And that's why the universe is ruled by the only person we can trust with this power: a man who lives at the centre of the universe with a single cat, and is completely unaware that what he says to several visitors can determine the fate of our lives* . . . 
Iraq was a gamble at first, then a success, then a debacle, and now it is a mess. The U.S. took a risk, and at first it paid off. However, as the ongoing fighting drags on, a lot of questions are being raised. I really don't think that 'lying' ever crossed anyone's mind. Political maneuvering, certainly, but not lying.
Nah, Bush didn't lie about Iraq. I don't even think he was 'in error' because whether or not Iraq has WMDs is irrelevant; if he wanted to invade Iraq then he had any number of reasons to do so, WMDs is just one of them. Why lie when you can use a (depending on your point of view) legitimate alternative reason? If he had gone to war on a lie, I don't think he'd be president now. Obviously Americans still have enough confidence in him--or lack of confidence in John Kerry--even with the Iraq debacle.
*According to The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, courtesy of the Hitchhiker's Increasingly Inaccurate Trilogy of Four.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:08 am |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | I like Michael Savage, his points are actually well thought out and resoned. He doesn't embelish or falsify facts like Moore does, and I don't think Coulter does either. |
Oh, yes, I agree that they tell the truth most of the time, but in terms of radicalness, they're Moore's equivalent. And all three ARE outrageous, but of course we're going to think Savage and Coulter barely falsify, etc and are better than Moore, which really is true.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:09 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Oh right...Rush is a druggie, I forgot . |
Cheap shot! Cheap shot!
Things are different in these situations. But also, when someone gets addicted to something when taking it for medical purposes and gets addicted, it's not his fault. Although I am in NO WAY condoning what he did. But Rush is a good man, a great American, and America's Truth Detector. |
Whatever you want, I just find it silly to listen to drug addicts .
| Quote: | | I like Michael Savage, his points are actually well thought out and resoned. He doesn't embelish or falsify facts like Moore does, and I don't think Coulter does either. |
And of course yall take up for them because you AGREE with them. Sheesh, whether it is or not, it is your version of the truth, so of course yall agree with what they have to say, yall like hearing it and don't even give it honest questioning.
Last edited by Puck on Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:09 am Re: "Bush Lied" |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | And no, all politicians do NOT lie.) |
And that's why the universe is ruled by the only person we can trust with this power: a man who lives at the centre of the universe with a single cat, and is completely unaware that what he says to several visitors can determine the fate of our lives* . . .
Iraq was a gamble at first, then a success, then a debacle, and now it is a mess. The U.S. took a risk, and at first it paid off. However, as the ongoing fighting drags on, a lot of questions are being raised. I really don't think that 'lying' ever crossed anyone's mind. Political maneuvering, certainly, but not lying.
Nah, Bush didn't lie about Iraq. I don't even think he was 'in error' because whether or not Iraq has WMDs is irrelevant; if he wanted to invade Iraq then he had any number of reasons to do so, WMDs is just one of them. Why lie when you can use a (depending on your point of view) legitimate alternative reason? If he had gone to war on a lie, I don't think he'd be president now. Obviously Americans still have enough confidence in him--or lack of confidence in John Kerry--even with the Iraq debacle.
*According to The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, courtesy of the Hitchhiker's Increasingly Inaccurate Trilogy of Four. |
You sound like Bill O'Reilly.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:15 am Re: "Bush Lied" |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | You sound like Bill O'Reilly. |
I didn't know O'Reilly was a DNA fan . . .
::takes off his O'Reilly voice imitator and clears throat::
There, that better?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:16 am Re: "Bush Lied" |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | You sound like Bill O'Reilly. |
I didn't know O'Reilly was a DNA fan . . .
::takes off his O'Reilly voice imitator and clears throat::
There, that better? |
The way you talked about Iraq. Being that it's a mess, etc. You never don't hear that from him.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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borgslayer
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 2646
Location: Las Vegas
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:43 am |
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Bush didn't lie yes he just got "false information" and ran with it.
So its like someone telling you theres a gold bar worth 2million dollars 5 miles away in a mine, so you take that notion that is it true and run 5 miles only to find nothing.
" The fact is Bush has to look at the evidence more closely so he wouldn't be in this situation were many people hate him for invading Iraq "
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:35 am |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | Well it isn't hard to see how people could think that he is a liar. I mean, I can, even though I don't feel that he actually is. But I mean, if we actually looked at the facts here, the answer could be quite easy to find. Let's look at a few primary issues.
First, many people were "disenchanted" with the 2000 elections, and feel that Bush didn't rightfully become President to begin with, thus, deeply damaging their trust in him.
No. Its simple what happened there. Dem. didn't win. They became b****y about it and made a big scandal over it. Was there confusion? YES. Bush won and people got bitter over it. What happened to taking a loss well? Geez.... 
Second, I don't really keep up with this too much, so I won't go into detail, but their is all that controversy with Cheney.
What contreversy? About a family member being a homosexual? That he controls Bush? His heart problems? I can't think of anything, please elaborate.
Third, he hurried into Iraq claiming that their could be nukes, chemical, and biological weapons there, or being made. Two years later, where are they?
Hurried? Hurried? As opposed to taking decades like the UN? No thanks. It has been proven that Saddam had chemical weapons and Iraqi scientists admitted he had the capability to do it. Did you mean the WMD? When sources all over the World and lots more tell you that, what would you do? Ironic isn't it? People complain that he didn't listen to intelleigence before 9/11 but when he does for Iraq hes a liar. Hypocrites.
Fourth, they listen to silly people like Michael Moore, just as many Republicans listen to Rush Limbaugh. That never helps the case.
True. Micahel Moore has been influential in dividing the Nation.
Soooo, even if you don't agree with it, I don't think it is that hard to at least see where some people are coming from when they call him a "liar" and says he is "misleading America". |
Yes it is.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:40 am |
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I don't think Bush is a liar and it is an outrage that anyone says that he is.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:26 am Re: "Bush Lied" |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | Did he lie about the terrorist connections? No. Since the war ended, we've seen what has come about to defend the evil in Iraq. Al Qaeda, Hamas, and Al Sadr's group have all been present in Iraq. In fact OBL's right hand man was medically treated and sheltered by Hussein's regimes a few years ago. The connections are all there. |
I know there will have been some terrorist links with Iraq, but I think that a lot of the terrorism there at the moment isn't properly linked with terrorists that had ties to Saddam. A large number are there just to create trouble, rather than getting Saddam back, or because he helped them. Also Bin Laden didn't like Saddam as he was not religious, and restricted religous practices when in power.
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:34 am |
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| Rbgirl wrote: | | I don't think Bush is a liar and it is an outrage that anyone says that he is. |
you make him sound like he is god which he is not even if I believed in one.
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JP
Ensign, Junior Grade
Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 37
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:28 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Oh right...Rush is a druggie, I forgot . |
Cheap shot! Cheap shot!
Things are different in these situations. But also, when someone gets addicted to something when taking it for medical purposes and gets addicted, it's not his fault. Although I am in NO WAY condoning what he did. But Rush is a good man, a great American, and America's Truth Detector. |
You sound like the people that use drugs to get themselves social security checks.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:45 pm |
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| borgslayer wrote: | Bush didn't lie yes he just got "false information" and ran with it.
So its like someone telling you theres a gold bar worth 2million dollars 5 miles away in a mine, so you take that notion that is it true and run 5 miles only to find nothing.
" The fact is Bush has to look at the evidence more closely so he wouldn't be in this situation were many people hate him for invading Iraq " |
He DEFINITELY looked closely enough. Everyone aknowledged WMDs. And no, I believe we found WMDs.
| Jeremy wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | Did he lie about the terrorist connections? No. Since the war ended, we've seen what has come about to defend the evil in Iraq. Al Qaeda, Hamas, and Al Sadr's group have all been present in Iraq. In fact OBL's right hand man was medically treated and sheltered by Hussein's regimes a few years ago. The connections are all there. |
I know there will have been some terrorist links with Iraq, but I think that a lot of the terrorism there at the moment isn't properly linked with terrorists that had ties to Saddam. A large number are there just to create trouble, rather than getting Saddam back, or because he helped them. Also Bin Laden didn't like Saddam as he was not religious, and restricted religous practices when in power. |
But that doesn't mean the hatred of America didn't unite them
| JP wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Oh right...Rush is a druggie, I forgot . |
Cheap shot! Cheap shot!
Things are different in these situations. But also, when someone gets addicted to something when taking it for medical purposes and gets addicted, it's not his fault. Although I am in NO WAY condoning what he did. But Rush is a good man, a great American, and America's Truth Detector. |
You sound like the people that use drugs to get themselves social security checks. |
Nope, I shouldn't, and I don't like that.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:30 am |
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Look Jeff I never said he was a god. U are putting words in my mouth that is not there.
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:00 pm |
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oh please place blame on everyone else let me quote what you said earlier.
| Rbgirl wrote: | | I don't think Bush is a liar and it is an outrage that anyone says that he is. |
Everyone lies I don't care what anyone says hell even I lie when it suits my purpose. By you saying that it is a outrage that anyone says that bush is a liar makes him sound perfect Doesn't it? And the only "Perfect" person was hung on a cross. So thus your quote does make it sound like he is a god... oh and I will not be a patsy for you to try and explain your excueses. don't do it again.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:50 pm |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | oh please place blame on everyone else let me quote what you said earlier.
| Rbgirl wrote: | | I don't think Bush is a liar and it is an outrage that anyone says that he is. |
Everyone lies I don't care what anyone says hell even I lie when it suits my purpose. By you saying that it is a outrage that anyone says that bush is a liar makes him sound perfect Doesn't it? And the only "Perfect" person was hung on a cross. So thus your quote does make it sound like he is a god... oh and I will not be a patsy for you to try and explain your excueses. don't do it again. |
I can't see an instance where he's LIED, persay, although I'm sure he has at least a few times. Everyone does. However, in one case I can say for sure that he is spinning and deceiving, and that's the illegal immigration situation.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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