| Do you contest President Bush's victory/do you agree with this? |
| Yes, I contest President Bush's victory and I agree with it. |
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35% |
[ 5 ] |
| Just one or the other (explain) |
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7% |
[ 1 ] |
| No. I don't agree with either. This is ridiculous. Bush won, fair and square. |
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57% |
[ 8 ] |
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| Total Votes : 14 |
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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 Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:53 am Presidential Vote Certification Faces Objection |
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 wrote: | Presidential Vote Certification Faces Objection
Wednesday, January 05, 2005
WASHINGTON � When the joint session of Congress meets Thursday to certify the Electoral College votes that gave President Bush his second term, several Democratic House members are expected to contest the results.
They may also find support from Sen. Barbara Boxer (search), D-Calif., whose participation under congressional rules would then require senators and representatives to recess to their respective chambers to debate certification.
The action would be the first of its kind in 36 years, but most likely won't add up to more than a procedural delay of the inevitable.
According to the choreography of the certification, after the House is called to order and the senators arrive from their chamber, the joint session begins with Vice President Dick Cheney (search) leading the activities.
The "certificates of vote" from each of the states will be called out and the number of votes designated for president and vice president will be reported on four separate paper tallies. At the end of the reading of all 50 states and the District of Columbia's votes, the four tellers responsible for recording the tallies will compare results and sign off on them. Cheney will then announce the totals and order them into the record.
However, as was also the case in 2001, when more than two dozen Democrats objected to the certification of Florida's disputed election, a new objection is expected this time. At least three House Democrats, Reps. Jesse Jackson Jr. of Illinois, John Conyers of Michigan and Stephanie Tubbs Jones of Ohio, and possibly several others, are expected to object to the certification of Ohio's 20 Electoral College votes for Bush alleging voting irregularities in the decisive swing state.
If a Senate member also offers an objection, the House and Senate must then withdraw to their chambers so each body can discuss objections made on each state's certification. The discussion can last up to two hours for each state after which time each chamber votes separately on each objection. The two bodies would then return to the joint session to report their respective actions on the objections.
Boxer and several other senators had been approached by the House Democrats to launch the corresponding objection from the Senate that would force the recess of the joint session. An aide to Boxer told FOX News that the two-term senator may join the Democratic representatives or "may very well end up doing something short of it. What that means, I'm not sure yet."
Boxer apparently is not the only senator who was approached to cast an objection, her spokeswoman said, but she does appear to be the only senator to state publicly that she is considering contesting the results. According to informed sources, House Democrats also approached newly elected Illinois Sen. Barack Obama (search) to join the objection. Those sources said Obama has no plans to do so.
Sen. John Kerry, who lost the election to Bush and is currently overseas, said in a letter sent to supporters Wednesday he would not take part in a formal protest of the Ohio Electors because, despite widespread reports of voting irregularities, his legal team had "found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election."
Kerry said he planned to introduce election reform legislation and push for congressional hearings on the voting irregularities.
Asked about the political wisdom of deciding to join House members in contesting the results, the Boxer aide said, "These are credible folks in the House who say there are real problems out there. They need to shine the light on this. So they made an appeal to the senator for the right to shine the light on it. There are folks who think this is a not a fruitful exercise, because even the results are challenged, it still may not change the outcome, but for two hours, this might at least be worth discussing."
Boxer's consideration of an objection apparently has stirred the pot with new Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, who according to several sources was very upset with the proposal and tried to prevent a leak of the senator's plan from getting out.
Republicans say Boxer and a handful of leftwing house liberals are grandstanding. One Democratic leadership source also criticized Boxer, suggesting, "It would not be preferable or her to object."
Another Democratic leadership aide told FOX News that there is "not going to be a vote on this," referring to any objections, and explained that instead, Boxer may go the floor to talk about the voting problems that occurred in 2004.
FOX News' Carl Cameron, Julie Asher and Jim Mills and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Source
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Isn't it time for Democrats to STOP COMPLAINING and GET OVER IT? The fact is that Bush won FAIR AND SQUARE. *Sings "Get over it! Get over it!"* This is ridiculous.
--EDIT--
Btw, that poll. You don't have to like the fact that he won when voting.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jadzia Lenara Dax
Garbage Queen
Joined: 17 Oct 2001
Posts: 5761
Location: Sunnydale, California
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:56 am |
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It really isn't ridiculous. The way the election was run needs to be looked into--I live in the South, and a lot of people at my college were denied the right to vote, even though they were legally allowed to. If people are having their civil rights taken from them, then it's not a fair election.
-------signature-------
"I can't stand someone who can outdepress me." -Shirley Manson, Garbage
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:58 am |
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How were they "denied" the right to vote?
My vote? Bush won. Get over it.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:59 am |
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Why Boxer? Why the senator supposedly representing "California's" interest? Why?  *growls* Sheesh, I can't believe anyone would dare. I do agree that elections need a looking over, and possibly thought of reform, but the election is over, done, and Bush won. They should be arguing election reform outside the context of who won this particular time, 'cause it's pretty obvious.
Last edited by Arellia on Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:59 am |
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I voted for the last option.
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Jadzia Lenara Dax
Garbage Queen
Joined: 17 Oct 2001
Posts: 5761
Location: Sunnydale, California
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:00 am |
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Several of the people in charge of the voting booths wouldn't give students provisional ballots. The law states that if you request a provisional ballot, you're required to be given one.
Also, their absentee ballots didn't arrive through the mail on time.
-------signature-------
"I can't stand someone who can outdepress me." -Shirley Manson, Garbage
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:01 am |
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| Defiant wrote: | | I voted for the last option. |
I figured you would.
| Jadzia Lenara Dax wrote: | Several of the people in charge of the voting booths wouldn't give students provisional ballots. The law states that if you request a provisional ballot, you're required to be given one.
Also, their absentee ballots didn't arrive through the mail on time. |
This depends...when did they request a ballot?
And sometimes that happens, absentee ballots, but there is ALWAYS a way to vote through them. You can pick up one at your County Clerk's office, I believe, on election day and vote there. I worked for the Republican party, so I know how it works, particularly in Colorado.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jadzia Lenara Dax
Garbage Queen
Joined: 17 Oct 2001
Posts: 5761
Location: Sunnydale, California
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:05 am |
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I did a lot of work for the Democratic party during the election, so I knew my state's rules for the ballots pretty well also.
To my knowledge, the requests for the absentee ballots were sent in soon enough to give time. I know my ballot took so long to come to me that I ended up just going home to vote to avoid the difficulty.
-------signature-------
"I can't stand someone who can outdepress me." -Shirley Manson, Garbage
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:05 am |
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Problem is, thats a provisional ballot, and may or may not be counted. Still ignoring peoples rights.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:06 am |
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| Jadzia Lenara Dax wrote: | I did a lot of work for the Democratic party during the election, so I knew my state's rules for the ballots pretty well also.
To my knowledge, the requests for the absentee ballots were sent in soon enough to give time. I know my ballot took so long to come to me that I ended up just going home to vote to avoid the difficulty. |
Sure, sure, but that doesn't mean that they were DENIED the right to vote. There are other ways to be able to vote under those circumstances, anyways.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:07 am |
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Isn't the last option good? 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:08 am |
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| Defiant wrote: | | Problem is, thats a provisional ballot, and may or may not be counted. Still ignoring peoples rights. |
If there's a significant majority for one candidate, then it's not really worth counting. And for those that say that there should be a recount in Ohio, there are PLENTY of states that Kerry won by a SLIMMER margine than that.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jadzia Lenara Dax
Garbage Queen
Joined: 17 Oct 2001
Posts: 5761
Location: Sunnydale, California
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:13 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Jadzia Lenara Dax wrote: | I did a lot of work for the Democratic party during the election, so I knew my state's rules for the ballots pretty well also.
To my knowledge, the requests for the absentee ballots were sent in soon enough to give time. I know my ballot took so long to come to me that I ended up just going home to vote to avoid the difficulty. |
Sure, sure, but that doesn't mean that they were DENIED the right to vote. There are other ways to be able to vote under those circumstances, anyways. |
It is denying the right to vote--if you don't give someone a provisional ballot, it is highly possible they won't have any other way to vote. Therefore, not only has the law been broken in the first aspect, but the person has lost their civil liberty. How is not giving a provisional ballot not denying the right to vote? If it's election day, there's really not many other options.
And there's also the case of the long lines at the polls. I've heard stories of people waiting in line for hours, and not even being able to vote. Or about machines not working the way they're supposed to. Regardless, it's a flawed system--there's just too many things that could malfunction.
-------signature-------
"I can't stand someone who can outdepress me." -Shirley Manson, Garbage
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:20 am |
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It somehow amazes me that it could be so difficult. Really, it does. I *guess* I see why, but...can't we simplify it? Just a tad? I should think...
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Jadzia Lenara Dax
Garbage Queen
Joined: 17 Oct 2001
Posts: 5761
Location: Sunnydale, California
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:27 am |
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Exactly! I mean, when you think about it, it really should be an easy thing. You just drive to the poll, and you vote. And in some states, you can even just mail in your ballot ahead of time. You wouldn't think that it would be something that would cause so much chaos.
-------signature-------
"I can't stand someone who can outdepress me." -Shirley Manson, Garbage
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:32 am |
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Mkay, I definetly agree that EVERYONE should be allowed to vote, regardless. But I think this should all be over, and let it go.
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borgslayer
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 2646
Location: Las Vegas
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:41 am |
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Bush won as you say but you know hundreds of thousands of votes from several states has not even been counted yet. So really Bush won because not all the votes were counted just about 85% of them were counted. Some Americans just want to see at least all the votes counted like 100% of them from all counties in all states. Whats to argue about if some democrats are just asking for a simple recount?
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:48 am |
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The votes NEED to be counted, yes. Otherwise, people lose faith in the system. But nothing changes. Even if they find out 100% of the population voted for Kerry, and Bush didnt get any, it doesnt matter. Kerry resigned, Bush is President. End of story.
Although Bush would go to jail in that situation, but we wont go into that.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:50 am |
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Trust me. The outcome won't be different.
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:54 am |
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THAT DOESNT MATTER IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM! DID YOU READ MY POST? (broken caps lock key!  )
No matter the outcome of the recount, the outcome of the election is the same. Period.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:00 am |
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Ok well we're in agreement. Thats what I said...
I know what your trying to say. Because Kerry conceded its 100% over with.
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:03 am |
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Umm...yep! Pretty much! OK, cool.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:26 pm |
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| Exalya wrote: | | It somehow amazes me that it could be so difficult. Really, it does. I *guess* I see why, but...can't we simplify it? Just a tad? I should think... |
What would need to be done? I think it's simple enough.
| borgslayer wrote: | | Bush won as you say but you know hundreds of thousands of votes from several states has not even been counted yet. So really Bush won because not all the votes were counted just about 85% of them were counted. Some Americans just want to see at least all the votes counted like 100% of them from all counties in all states. Whats to argue about if some democrats are just asking for a simple recount? |
No, I believe they've counted more than 90% of the votes, and Bush won the overall Ohio votes AND the recout. There is NO REASON for a recount. Bush won, face the facts.
| Defiant wrote: | The votes NEED to be counted, yes. Otherwise, people lose faith in the system. But nothing changes. Even if they find out 100% of the population voted for Kerry, and Bush didnt get any, it doesnt matter. Kerry resigned, Bush is President. End of story.
Although Bush would go to jail in that situation, but we wont go into that. |
Right.
| Founder wrote: | Ok well we're in agreement. Thats what I said...
I know what your trying to say. Because Kerry conceded its 100% over with. |
Exactly.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:57 pm |
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What would need to be done? I really don't know. Tell me why they act like voting is such a big deal. You punch a hole next to the name, someone counts your vote. Add up all the votes for the state. Whoever wins, wins. Sounds easy. But somehow, the media manages to make it sounded like a complicated disaster. Peh.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:00 pm |
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| Exalya wrote: | | What would need to be done? I really don't know. Tell me why they act like voting is such a big deal. You punch a hole next to the name, someone counts your vote. Add up all the votes for the state. Whoever wins, wins. Sounds easy. But somehow, the media manages to make it sounded like a complicated disaster. Peh. |
Right, right. Agreed.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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