| Author |
Message |
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
 Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:43 pm |
|
| Founder wrote: | | Defiant wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: | I am glad you all have so much information to support your topic that we have resorted to personally attacking Mark to get
a point across  . |
You called me a racist. That is a personal attack, and I will have no more of it. |
Where did I call you a rascist? |
Or me? And I'm sorry, Janeway, you made a good point there, but there is NO WAY TO GET THROUGH TO THIS MICHAEL MOORE.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:43 pm |
|
| Founder wrote: | | Are you people f*****g for real? How are we attacking him? |
If it is that hard to see then I really must wonder who the "blind ones" are .
*waves good bye before leaving the thread  *
Last edited by Puck on Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:45 pm; edited 3 times in total
|
|
|
Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:43 pm |
|
| Founder wrote: | | With that kinda mentality since some Whites resisted black equality then they should never have received it. Glad you weren't around back then to mess things up. |
And RM, I do not deny your story, but your source. I have never in all my years following politics heard of your source, therefore I refute it. Show me a story on CNN or some respectable news agency, not this quack agency.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:44 pm |
|
| Defiant wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | With that kinda mentality since some Whites resisted black equality then they should never have received it. Glad you weren't around back then to mess things up. |
And RM, I do not deny your story, but your source. I have never in all my years following politics heard of your source, therefore I refute it. Show me a story on CNN or some respectable news agency, not this quack agency. |
CNN...respectable. And look it up there 
| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | Are you people f*****g for real? How are we attacking him? |
If it is that hard to see then I really must wonder who the "blind ones" are . |
I'm angry, okay? When someone can't see the truth, it's out.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:44 pm |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | Defiant wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: | I am glad you all have so much information to support your topic that we have resorted to personally attacking Mark to get
a point across . |
You called me a racist. That is a personal attack, and I will have no more of it. |
Where did I call you a rascist? |
Or me? And I'm sorry, Janeway, you made a good point there, but there is NO WAY TO GET THROUGH TO THIS MICHAEL MOORE. |
You honor me with your analogy, but not with the spirit of your words. Go back to your hole and hide from the truth.
|
|
|
Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:45 pm |
|
The main point, that two people could speak for an entire nation, is what I am getting at here. Put simply, you could have all the facts in the world but two Iraqis cannot persuade the rest of them, or us for that matter, that the Iraqi public wants democracy. Just not possible.
|
|
|
Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:45 pm |
|
The burden of proof is on you RM.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:46 pm |
|
| Kyre wrote: | | The main point, that two people could speak for an entire nation, is what I am getting at here. Put simply, you could have all the facts in the world but two Iraqis cannot persuade the rest of them, or us for that matter, that the Iraqi public wants democracy. Just not possible. |
But they DO.
And Defiant, I'm glad you're looking at yourself in the mirror there.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:47 pm |
|
When I look in the mirror, I see you. Youre doing the exact same thing I am, only from your point of view. Think about that for a moment.
|
|
|
Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:48 pm |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: | | Kyre wrote: | | The main point, that two people could speak for an entire nation, is what I am getting at here. Put simply, you could have all the facts in the world but two Iraqis cannot persuade the rest of them, or us for that matter, that the Iraqi public wants democracy. Just not possible. |
But they DO. |
I don't know if they do or they don't, maybe they do. All I know is that two people cannot speak for a country, especially Iraq.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:48 pm |
|
| Defiant wrote: | | When I look in the mirror, I see you. Youre doing the exact same thing I am, only from your point of view. Think about that for a moment. |
Om, no. I have TRUE facts on my side.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:50 pm |
|
(Memo from Iraqi Intelligence Service to Abid Hamid Mahmud, Saddam�s secretary on Jan. 25, 1993)
In the name of Allah the compassionate the kind
Top secret, personal & urgent
| Quote: | Republic of Iraq
The bureau of presidency
The Iraqi intelligence service
Issue # 110/2/ 43
Date; Jan. 25th,1993
Shaaban 3rd.1413 Hijri
(Memo from Abid Hamid Mahmud, Saddam Hussein�s secretary, to Ali Al-Reech Al-Sheikh, member of Arabian Bureau Ba�ath Party leadership on Jan. 18, 1993)
In the name of Allah the compassionate the kind
Top secret, personal & urgent
Republic of Iraq
The bureau of presidency
The secretary
Issue # 425/K
Date; Jan.18th, 1993
Rajab 25th.1413 Hijri
|
Not Fact-full enough for you, Defiant? It's not some odd-job made up thing. It's FACT.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:52 pm |
|
No source, not believing it.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
|
|
Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:53 pm |
|
I do not accept CNS news, as I have stated before.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:56 pm |
|
| Defiant wrote: | | I do not accept CNS news, as I have stated before. |
Alright, fine. If you want, do some back-checks on it and related topics.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:57 pm |
|
RM why do you bother? He won't believe any source that disagrees with his views.
|
|
|
Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:57 pm |
|
Again, I repeat myself. The burden of proof is on you, not my responsibility to prove my case.
|
|
|
Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:57 pm |
|
Apathy is a terrible problem in the world today. Disinterest in the political process of one's own nation means that unscrupulous people can seize control of such a process. "The people want to be deceived." We say we want freedoms, but one of those freedoms the average person wants is the freedom to stay home all day, watch reality TV, and not contribute to the government--we want freedom, but we also want someone else to make all the big decisions (why else do we pass up so many tasks to automatons?)
Now that you're in Iraq, clean up the mess you've made. Yes, I think it was the wrong decision to go into Iraq, however that debate is long gone. Now that the fact is over, I will not shed any more tears, I will instead lobby for more educational measures to be taken. Spread information, and show the Iraqis that democracy is desirable. You are offering them an alternative to Hussein, but it is an alternative that they may fear comes with a price. The only way to show them that the price is (at least supposedly) worth it is to teach them that.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:59 pm |
|
| Founder wrote: |
RM why do you bother? He won't believe any source that disagrees with his views. |
Good point. I find CNN as credible as a pig, but I'll trust it enough when someone posts something, although I'll know it'll have intense spin.
--EDIT--
And Tach, you wouldn't go to war even if you're country was attacked. I know that for a fact. You've told me it
Last edited by Republican_Man on Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:59 pm |
|
| Hitchhiker wrote: | Apathy is a terrible problem in the world today. Disinterest in the political process of one's own nation means that unscrupulous people can seize control of such a process. "The people want to be deceived." We say we want freedoms, but one of those freedoms the average person wants is the freedom to stay home all day, watch reality TV, and not contribute to the government--we want freedom, but we also want someone else to make all the big decisions (why else do we pass up so many tasks to automatons?)
Now that you're in Iraq, clean up the mess you've made. Yes, I think it was the wrong decision to go into Iraq, however that debate is long gone. Now that the fact is over, I will not shed any more tears, I will instead lobby for more educational measures to be taken. Spread information, and show the Iraqis that democracy is desirable. You are offering them an alternative to Hussein, but it is an alternative that they may fear comes with a price. The only way to show them that the price is (at least supposedly) worth it is to teach them that. |
How? How do you teach them? What is there to teach?(Not being sarcastic)
|
|
|
Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:01 pm |
|
In all honesty, I would accept a story posted by ANYONE else. Fox even. CNS is a quack news organization, and I will not accept their stories.
|
|
|
Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:02 pm |
|
Unfortunately, that is the problem.
The Iraqis have been leaving in a non-democracy for so long that although they may want freedoms, they are wary as to how to pursue it. And there are elements in Iraq that seek to use this chaotic and disordered response to their advantage.
Our main hope is to continue doing what we're doing: establish a democracy, since unfortunately that's the only size of shoe the Western world has in stock. But as I've said in another notorious topic, it's the Iraqis who like you that you need to focus on. We need to unite Iraq and convince those still fighting that it is best for them (not us) that they stop fighting and at least attempt to work alongside us in the rebuilding of their homes.
There is antipathy to the U.S. because the U.S. went in there, and literally destroyed their homes. Yes, you gave them freedom from a totalitarian regime--but humans are materialistic in the short term. They may acknowledge that ultimately their freedom was worth the price of their house, but in the short term they're more concerned with the destruction of their material possessions at the hands of the U.S. than any philosophical aspect.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:06 pm |
|
| Defiant wrote: | | In all honesty, I would accept a story posted by ANYONE else. Fox even. CNS is a quack news organization, and I will not accept their stories. |
Well, if true, then you should say the same about Moore's movie
| Hitchhiker wrote: | Unfortunately, that is the problem.
The Iraqis have been leaving in a non-democracy for so long that although they may want freedoms, they are wary as to how to pursue it. And there are elements in Iraq that seek to use this chaotic and disordered response to their advantage.
You sound like the Liberal O'Reilly guy, now. Sure, you're partially true, that the Iraqis aren't standing up enough like they should, but that's it. Look at the army, police force, etc.
Our main hope is to continue doing what we're doing: establish a democracy, since unfortunately that's the only size of shoe the Western world has in stock. But as I've said in another notorious topic, it's the Iraqis who like you that you need to focus on. We need to unite Iraq and convince those still fighting that it is best for them (not us) that they stop fighting and at least attempt to work alongside us in the rebuilding of their homes.
Yes, and we are working on that.
There is antipathy to the U.S. because the U.S. went in there, and literally destroyed their homes. Yes, you gave them freedom from a totalitarian regime--but humans are materialistic in the short term. They may acknowledge that ultimately their freedom was worth the price of their house, but in the short term they're more concerned with the destruction of their material possessions at the hands of the U.S. than any philosophical aspect. |
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
|
| Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:07 pm |
|
| Republican_Man wrote: | | Defiant wrote: | | In all honesty, I would accept a story posted by ANYONE else. Fox even. CNS is a quack news organization, and I will not accept their stories. |
Well, if true, then you should say the same about Moore's movie |
That'll be the day my friend.
|
|
|
|
Search
FAQ
Log in
