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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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 Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:21 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | I don't know that specific, to tell you the truth, but I DO know that a 12 year old can have sex, and that is BAD.
Btw, the rise of secularism in society coincides with the rise of progressive liberal ideals, etc, which are harmful to society, including, for instance, partial-birth abortion. |
In your opinion. 
Unfortunately, as you yourself have pointed out, we are in a democracy and the majority must prevail. If the majority becomes secular then you can't do much about it unless you form a radical fascist cult of nonsecular people 
Degeneracy in society is inevitable, because all revolutions carry within the seeds of their own destruction.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:15 pm |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | I don't know that specific, to tell you the truth, but I DO know that a 12 year old can have sex, and that is BAD.
Btw, the rise of secularism in society coincides with the rise of progressive liberal ideals, etc, which are harmful to society, including, for instance, partial-birth abortion. |
In your opinion.
Unfortunately, as you yourself have pointed out, we are in a democracy and the majority must prevail. If the majority becomes secular then you can't do much about it unless you form a radical fascist cult of nonsecular people
Degeneracy in society is inevitable, because all revolutions carry within the seeds of their own destruction. |
I don't care. We need to do what we can to keep secularism out of the nations and de-secularize those that are. It is the most noble cause next to fighting terrorism, and next to terrorism, secularism is the greatest threat the US now faces.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:39 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Hitchhiker wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | I don't know that specific, to tell you the truth, but I DO know that a 12 year old can have sex, and that is BAD.
Btw, the rise of secularism in society coincides with the rise of progressive liberal ideals, etc, which are harmful to society, including, for instance, partial-birth abortion. |
In your opinion.
Unfortunately, as you yourself have pointed out, we are in a democracy and the majority must prevail. If the majority becomes secular then you can't do much about it unless you form a radical fascist cult of nonsecular people
Degeneracy in society is inevitable, because all revolutions carry within the seeds of their own destruction. |
I don't care. We need to do what we can to keep secularism out of the nations and de-secularize those that are. It is the most noble cause next to fighting terrorism, and next to terrorism, secularism is the greatest threat the US now faces. |
Which nations?
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:46 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | I don't care. We need to do what we can to keep secularism out of the nations and de-secularize those that are. It is the most noble cause next to fighting terrorism, and next to terrorism, secularism is the greatest threat the US now faces. |
You can try, but I'm just pointing out that 'de-secularizing' may be harder than fighting terrorism, since your only options right now are waging advertisement-like campaigns that try and convince people through propaganda that religion is better than non-religion.
Or we can build fascist religion-states. That's always fun. I'll grab a lawn gnome, they're good for crackdowns on secular policy.
So your to-do list:
1) Get rid of terrorism (which is typically an example of religion gone wrong, so yeah, hide that one under the carpet).
2) Get rid of secularism by making cool advertisements
3) Figure out how they get the caramel into the Caramilk bars (that's the hardest one of all).
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:49 pm |
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I just find this funny!
| Hitchhiker wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | I don't care. We need to do what we can to keep secularism out of the nations and de-secularize those that are. It is the most noble cause next to fighting terrorism, and next to terrorism, secularism is the greatest threat the US now faces. |
You can try, but I'm just pointing out that 'de-secularizing' may be harder than fighting terrorism, since your only options right now are waging advertisement-like campaigns that try and convince people through propaganda that religion is better than non-religion.
Or we can build fascist religion-states. That's always fun. I'll grab a lawn gnome, they're good for crackdowns on secular policy.
So your to-do list:
1) Get rid of terrorism (which is typically an example of religion gone wrong, so yeah, hide that one under the carpet).
That's something that I stand against, though. One religion being FORCED upon people and them being FORCED to do, ESPECIALLY through violent methods.
2) Get rid of secularism by making cool advertisements
lol, now that's just funny.
3) Figure out how they get the caramel into the Caramilk bars (that's the hardest one of all).
LOL! That is TOO FUNNY!  ROFL!
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-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:51 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: |
I don't know that specific, to tell you the truth, but I DO know that a 12 year old can have sex, and that is BAD.
Btw, the rise of secularism in society coincides with the rise of progressive liberal ideals, etc, which are harmful to society, including, for instance, partial-birth abortion. |
Thats nonsense. In holland a child may only have legit sex at 18. They CAN have sex earlier but thats out of anybodies control. If 2 minors have sex i wouldn't mind (2 of 12 years old) But if a guy of 18 has sex with a girl of 12 its bad, perhaps. It really dpends on the situitaion.. However 2 people of 17 is very normal.
In total, i don't think you can have law for sex unless its extreme (like a 18 years old with a 12.)
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:58 pm |
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Yeah, I know, it's humorous, although I really can't think of another method to encourage "de-secularization" . . .
Oh wait, there's brainwashing. That's always good too. Mind-altering chemicals released through the atmosphere. I'm joking, but only slightly
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:44 pm |
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| lionhead wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
I don't know that specific, to tell you the truth, but I DO know that a 12 year old can have sex, and that is BAD.
Btw, the rise of secularism in society coincides with the rise of progressive liberal ideals, etc, which are harmful to society, including, for instance, partial-birth abortion. |
Thats nonsense. In holland a child may only have legit sex at 18. They CAN have sex earlier but thats out of anybodies control. If 2 minors have sex i wouldn't mind (2 of 12 years old) But if a guy of 18 has sex with a girl of 12 its bad, perhaps. It really dpends on the situitaion.. However 2 people of 17 is very normal.
In total, i don't think you can have law for sex unless its extreme (like a 18 years old with a 12.) |
How is it good to allow people who aren't even legally in charge of their assets to have sex good? Twelve-year-olds having sex? How are they supposed to know the consequences? I mean really know how bad it could be if they have a child, or if they contract a form of STD. That's just begging for a rise in abortion rates, death in the mother, and disease. After a person's 18, they're on their own, let them make mistakes as much as they like. But there has to be some measure of protection/repellent when it comes to children.
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Not the doctor... yet
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Five - seveN
Rear Admiral
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 3567
Location: Shadow Moon
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:58 pm |
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!
But, omfg... It's their own decision... I mean, gosh... You can't prohibit something like sex... It's just weird. And how would you get such a law to work? Placing surveillance cams in children's bedrooms?  =S
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:22 pm |
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| Exalya wrote: | | lionhead wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
I don't know that specific, to tell you the truth, but I DO know that a 12 year old can have sex, and that is BAD.
Btw, the rise of secularism in society coincides with the rise of progressive liberal ideals, etc, which are harmful to society, including, for instance, partial-birth abortion. |
Thats nonsense. In holland a child may only have legit sex at 18. They CAN have sex earlier but thats out of anybodies control. If 2 minors have sex i wouldn't mind (2 of 12 years old) But if a guy of 18 has sex with a girl of 12 its bad, perhaps. It really dpends on the situitaion.. However 2 people of 17 is very normal.
In total, i don't think you can have law for sex unless its extreme (like a 18 years old with a 12.) |
How is it good to allow people who aren't even legally in charge of their assets to have sex good? Twelve-year-olds having sex? How are they supposed to know the consequences? I mean really know how bad it could be if they have a child, or if they contract a form of STD. That's just begging for a rise in abortion rates, death in the mother, and disease. After a person's 18, they're on their own, let them make mistakes as much as they like. But there has to be some measure of protection/repellent when it comes to children. |
Right. seveN, you are just clouded. You just don't understand. You are crazy. 12 year olds can't even make their own decisions well enough. And PS, it WORKS IN THE US!
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:41 pm |
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no it doesn't.
Turn on your TV RM. You'll see hundreads of kids under the age of 18 with children. I see it all the time in college and I saw it a lot in Highschool.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:59 pm |
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It doesn't work perfectly, but there's a law against murder, too, and people still do it. It's still a deterrant, and that can prevent at least some instances of it, and promotes and idea that it is not a good idea. RM's right. Twelve-year-olds and the like CANNOT make thier own decisions in this case. It's too easy for kids that age to think that it doesn't matter, and it'll all turn out fine, or they won't suffer for it. That is just wrong.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:01 pm |
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Wait a minute. I just looked into this topic. Are there people here defending the right for 12 year old kids to have sex!?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:50 pm |
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| Exalya wrote: | | It doesn't work perfectly, but there's a law against murder, too, and people still do it. It's still a deterrant, and that can prevent at least some instances of it, and promotes and idea that it is not a good idea. RM's right. Twelve-year-olds and the like CANNOT make thier own decisions in this case. It's too easy for kids that age to think that it doesn't matter, and it'll all turn out fine, or they won't suffer for it. That is just wrong. |
Exactly. Link, I know it doesn't work perfectly, but it DOES work.
And saddly, yes, Founder.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:33 pm |
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It seems pretty useless to makes laws about something like sex. You can do it all the time, and nobody would actually find out, and you're not hurting anybody but yourself. I personally don't see why they don't make the law 16 here in the US. You can drive at 16, taking the chance of killing yourself and others. But you can't have sex, where you'd only be harming yourself.... Kinda silly.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:49 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | It seems pretty useless to makes laws about something like sex. You can do it all the time, and nobody would actually find out, and you're not hurting anybody but yourself. I personally don't see why they don't make the law 16 here in the US. You can drive at 16, taking the chance of killing yourself and others. But you can't have sex, where you'd only be harming yourself.... Kinda silly. |
You wouldn't be harming yourself if you get a girl pregnant. You wouldn't be harming yourself if you passed on an STD.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:51 pm |
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It's the entire principal, to me, that by lowering the age of consentual sex in essence the government is saying, "Yeah. Okay. You're kids, we won't find out anyway, so we won't let you know it's wrong. HAVE FUN!" And you do manage to hurt other people even through hurting yourself. An old friend of mine is having a child, and she had sex when she was 15. (16 now, and 7 months pregnant) Now, my friend's mother has to help and support her, and it's entirely ruined her mom's wish to leave the town she'd been in and start a new life. It's caused a huge rift between the two of them, and really played havoc with everyone's futures. Thank goodness they're the type of people who will actually keep the child and raise it, rather than abort it because it's so inconvenient.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:20 pm |
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I don't necessarily think kids at the age of 12 should have sex, and I certainly think that we should teach them abstinence, but I don't think an actual criminal law against sex at age 12 would do much good.
It's all about the hollow victories
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:43 pm |
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This is the way I think it should be. There should be a law against people over 18 having sex with minors. That way anything else should be based off of the parents teaching the kids. There is no way to justify kids tha age having sex. Like Exayla said. This is why abortions are all over the place. Because stupid kids are having unprotected sex. When your twelve you don't know about STDs or the pill or condoms. They don't know what they're doing.
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:47 pm |
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| Exalya wrote: | | It doesn't work perfectly, but there's a law against murder, too, and people still do it. It's still a deterrant, and that can prevent at least some instances of it, and promotes and idea that it is not a good idea. RM's right. Twelve-year-olds and the like CANNOT make thier own decisions in this case. It's too easy for kids that age to think that it doesn't matter, and it'll all turn out fine, or they won't suffer for it. That is just wrong. |
here is a very big diffrence between the law against murder and the law against sex.
How can you punish two 12 year olds who had sex?
I don't encourage it, i just don't think you can stop or even slow it down with a law. You are going too have too go after it personally. You can't expect that your 12 year old daughter or son isn't going too have sex because there is a law for it.
You can't expect someone not too kill people eighter but the difference is that its much harder too get the courage kill someone then too have sex when you are 12. When you go as far as killing someone there is something wrong with you in general.
Plus against murder there stands a penalty that keeps you from doing it as well, but with Sex its totally different.
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Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:55 pm |
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As I said, it's the principal of it. If it's not against the law, is there anything wrong with it? Well, yeah, a rational person would say it's bad. An irrational kid? Why would they think it's wrong? I well understand it's about impossible to enforce, but saying that's it's okay to be 12 and have sex--SAYING IT IS OKAY, by having the law indicate that it is--isn't right.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:23 pm |
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Exalya's right, you're wrong. This just in, Breaking News report. Seriously, the age should NOT BE TWELVE! That is just too damn ridiculous! But then again, that happens with a secular nation.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:38 pm |
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Youre all wrong. It should be 16 or so.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:39 pm |
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| Defiant wrote: | | Youre all wrong. It should be 16 or so. |
That's what it is, and okay. Although I think 18 is more appropriate, I'm content with the law now.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:42 pm |
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18 is good, but perhaps a little unrealistic. 16 is more applicable for todays society, but it honestly should not be under 16.
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