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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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 Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:29 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: |
Basically I just think that Lincoln and Reagan, almost tied now, as well as President Bush beat out these men, although perhaps Bush is tied with Washington and MAYBE Adams for 3rd. |
I still don't get your logic...I can understand Lincon, I do get that. And I accept that you think that Reagan and Bush were/are great president, I just don't happen to share your opinons. I'll accept you considering them among the top ten presidents in your book. But in my opinion, Washington and Adams deserve the top spots. Simply because they had the courage and wisdom to rise above political parties in order to keep the country united.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:34 pm |
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I don't think we're going to get an answer. There has yet to be a justification on why FDR, JFK or Clinton shouldn't be on the list.
I mean, I do understand Lincoln. But there's been little justification given to Reagan or Bush so far.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:51 pm |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | I don't think we're going to get an answer. There has yet to be a justification on why FDR, JFK or Clinton shouldn't be on the list.
I mean, I do understand Lincoln. But there's been little justification given to Reagan or Bush so far. |
There is VERY LITTLE justification that Clinton should be on the list--MUCH, MUCH less than Reagan, perhaps our best president ever.
Anyways, let's agree to disagree, Trekkie 
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:34 pm |
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How is there little justification?
If anything There's less justification for Reagan to be there then Clinton.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:54 pm |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | How is there little justification?
If anything There's less justification for Reagan to be there then Clinton. |
Sure. Whatever. It was Reagan's policies that ended the Cold War, for instance, as well as his economic policies. Clinton did 3 things good: Economy, NAFTA, and Surplus. That's it. Most of what Reagan did was good.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:01 am |
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Gosh, Lincoln is top. JFK and Reagan both stopped the Soviets so yeah.... And honestly, I don't see how either Bush or Clinton could be in the top five for best Presidents. Sure they have there good atributes...but neither of them were that good.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:03 am |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Gosh, Lincoln is top. JFK and Reagan both stopped the Soviets so yeah.... And honestly, I don't see how either Bush or Clinton could be in the top five for best Presidents. Sure they have there good atributes...but neither of them were that good. |
Bush has met the challenges of our day head-on, and his doctrine rivals most others, from Monroe to Truman to FDR.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:03 am |
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Clinton was garbage. Just like every other Democrat President, he screwed over the Cubans.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:04 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Gosh, Lincoln is top. JFK and Reagan both stopped the Soviets so yeah.... And honestly, I don't see how either Bush or Clinton could be in the top five for best Presidents. Sure they have there good atributes...but neither of them were that good. |
Bush has met the challenges of our day head-on, and his doctrine rivals most others, from Monroe to Truman to FDR. |
Well before we judge, let's see it through the outcome of these challenges.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:06 am |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Gosh, Lincoln is top. JFK and Reagan both stopped the Soviets so yeah.... And honestly, I don't see how either Bush or Clinton could be in the top five for best Presidents. Sure they have there good atributes...but neither of them were that good. |
Bush has met the challenges of our day head-on, and his doctrine rivals most others, from Monroe to Truman to FDR. |
Well before we judge, let's see it through the outcome of these challenges. |
In terms of how his first term is looking, then.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:59 am |
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| Founder wrote: | | Clinton was garbage. Just like every other Democrat President, he screwed over the Cubans. |
Uhh.. That's an Biased, uninformed opinion if I ever heard one before.
So I'm guessing when his administration spent half as much as was projected and almost payed off the debt if Reagan hadn't run it into the ground was garbage?
| Republican_Man wrote: | | Sure. Whatever. It was Reagan's policies that ended the Cold War, for instance, as well as his economic policies. Clinton did 3 things good: Economy, NAFTA, and Surplus. That's it. Most of what Reagan did was good. |
Reagan's economic policy? You mean spending as much as he could running our debt straight through the core of the earth? Clinton had a good Foreign Policy, Economic Policy and had the largest surplus to date.
Also, speaking of good legislation, Clinton passed NAGPRA. The Native American Graves Repatriation Act. a very important piece of North American archaeology legislation allowing Native American Cultures to get the bones and belongings of their ancestors back.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:05 am |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | Clinton was garbage. Just like every other Democrat President, he screwed over the Cubans. |
Uhh.. That's an Biased, uninformed opinion if I ever heard one before.
Yeah, you know that Founder's Cuban, right?
So I'm guessing when his administration spent half as much as was projected and almost payed off the debt if Reagan hadn't run it into the ground was garbage?
| Republican_Man wrote: | | Sure. Whatever. It was Reagan's policies that ended the Cold War, for instance, as well as his economic policies. Clinton did 3 things good: Economy, NAFTA, and Surplus. That's it. Most of what Reagan did was good. |
Reagan's economic policy? You mean spending as much as he could running our debt straight through the core of the earth? Clinton had a good Foreign Policy, Economic Policy and had the largest surplus to date.
Uh, no. You get your facts straight. Reagan had the GREATEST TAX CUT IN HISTORY and got us out of Carter's economy, one of the WORST in history (WORSE than Bush's, unlike the spin says) But the spending that he did, which was NOT AS MUCH as you think (I forget the stats, but I did a report on him, and got very detailed.) But for what he did spend, that was for DEFENSE during a time where it was NECESSARY and helped us to defeat the Soviet Union.
Also, speaking of good legislation, Clinton passed NAGPRA. The Native American Graves Repatriation Act. a very important piece of North American archaeology legislation allowing Native American Cultures to get the bones and belongings of their ancestors back. |
Perhaps there are some other minor things, like that and the nanotechnology thing, but he was not that great of a President. Reagan was MUCH better. However, maybe Clinton is in the top 20? 10-20, somewhere there. He's not one of our worst, I do NOT believe that.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:30 am |
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Why don't you guys just do what we did . . . get Americans to nominate their top 100 or so candidates, then break it down into a hokey reality TV show where advocates try and convince you to vote for one of the top ten.
It might not work, but it sure is entertaining. One of the advocates blew up an outhouse!
(We stole our idea from Britain anyway)
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:56 pm |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Gosh, Lincoln is top. JFK and Reagan both stopped the Soviets so yeah.... And honestly, I don't see how either Bush or Clinton could be in the top five for best Presidents. Sure they have there good atributes...but neither of them were that good. |
Bush has met the challenges of our day head-on, and his doctrine rivals most others, from Monroe to Truman to FDR. |
Well before we judge, let's see it through the outcome of these challenges. |
I agree. From where we stand at this point in time, we can see exactly where the presidency of Washington, Adams, Lincon, FDR and many other lead. But we have yet to get enough distance to see what the long term effects of Clinton and Bush's policies. Maybe in 20 years or so.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:28 pm |
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| TrekkieMage wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Gosh, Lincoln is top. JFK and Reagan both stopped the Soviets so yeah.... And honestly, I don't see how either Bush or Clinton could be in the top five for best Presidents. Sure they have there good atributes...but neither of them were that good. |
Bush has met the challenges of our day head-on, and his doctrine rivals most others, from Monroe to Truman to FDR. |
Well before we judge, let's see it through the outcome of these challenges. |
I agree. From where we stand at this point in time, we can see exactly where the presidency of Washington, Adams, Lincon, FDR and many other lead. But we have yet to get enough distance to see what the long term effects of Clinton and Bush's policies. Maybe in 20 years or so. |
It's not merely a matter of long term, you see. Bush is one of the best because of how he handled a great situation, and his doctrine. Those are the key things. I don't think you have to wait too long. From where this point is, I rank him very highly.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Alucard
Vampire
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 2780
Location: Caaaaaanada
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| Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:29 pm |
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how bout i make another topic where you choose vote between Presidents. You guys put up the ones i have i'll put up lincoln, reagan, clinton, and george bush Jr. for sure.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:36 pm |
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If this were to happen, I think we should not put up any of the founding fathers, they were in their own seperate class, and we can hopefully all come to an agreement there.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:13 pm |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | If this were to happen, I think we should not put up any of the founding fathers, they were in their own seperate class, and we can hopefully all come to an agreement there. |
I agree with you, pretty much.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm |
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If we're going to do this then we must logically think of examples.
Like what Janeway said the founding fathers are a class all their own.
We can't put in Bush or Clinton because we have yet to see the long term effects of their policies. Short term effects don't really matter much.
Reagan, FDR, Lincoln have so far been nominated to be on this list.
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Alucard
Vampire
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 2780
Location: Caaaaaanada
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| Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:58 am |
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ok, we have 3
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ACDC Girl
Krazy Kitty
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 7748
Location: Who Cares. :P
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| Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:00 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | Woohoo, Halifax was probably my favourite place in Nova Scotia.
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Really? i live there 
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:11 pm |
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Yeah, there and Annapolis (sp),
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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ACDC Girl
Krazy Kitty
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 7748
Location: Who Cares. :P
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| Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:44 pm |
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I have family that lives out there.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:30 pm |
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Reagan: Ended the greatest threat to the United States (if not the world) in its history: The Cold War. Created a drastic economic upturn, pulling us out of the Carter Crisis. Had the ability to communicate with anyone, period; he was perhapd the createst communicator in U.S. history. Won the hearts of 48 out of 51 electoral colleges in the country, by far owning that record.
Why isn't he one of the best?
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:32 pm |
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I like Republicans but only thing I didnt like about Reagon was he was for stem cell research.
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