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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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 Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:44 pm Video Catches Marine Shooting Injured Enemy |
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| Quote: |
Video Catches Marine Shooting Injured Enemy
Monday, November 15, 2004
WASHINGTON � The Pentagon is investigating the fatal shooting of a wounded enemy fighter in Iraq by a U.S. Marine that was captured on videotape.
The shooting happened during fighting in Fallujah (search) at a mosque between insurgents and Marines (search) from the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, according to unidentified embedded reporters and the Pentagon.
The Marines from that regiment came under fire by rebel forces stationed at the mosque on Friday, and U.S. forces responded by launching machine-gun and tank strikes, according to reports from the field. Ten insurgents were killed and five wounded in the fighting, FOX News has learned.
The following day, another set of Marines from the same unit engaged in a battle at the same mosque after observing movement inside. An embedded correspondent reported seeing fresh gunshot wounds on those injured the previous day.
During the second-day operation, one of the Marines came upon a wounded insurgent lying on the floor. On the tape, Marines wielding machine guns are seen going into the mosque and approaching a couple of Iraqi fighters lying on the floor. One of the Marines is heard repeatedly shouting, �He�s faking he�s dead!�
The Marine then apparently fired a single shot into the wounded man�s head � which was heard and caught on videotape but blacked out when the tape was aired. A voice can be heard saying, �He�s dead now."
Shooting an unarmed, wounded combatant is considered a violation of the rules of war.
Pentagon sources told FOX News that the Marine who shot the wounded Iraqi has been taken off the battlefield and the incident is under investigation. It could have serious implications for the U.S. Marines and their conduct on the battlefield.
But military sources also told FOX News that enemy fighters have used the tactic of feigning a wound to draw U.S. soldiers in, then opening fire on them. The Marine who apparently killed the injured fighter had reportedly been shot in the face the day before, FOX News has learned.
Insurgents have also been known to rig dead bodies with explosive devices that go off when U.S. troops approach.
FOX News' Greg Kelly and Catherine Donaldson-Evans contributed to this report.
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It's friggin war. I can't beleive anyone would waste any resources on investigating or probing this, that is just idiotic.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:46 pm |
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I somewhat agree. But if the man was unarmed and dieing. Then they violated the Rules of War. If we ignore the Rules. Then we bcome no better than them.
Then again alot of the Terrorist do dirty tactics like this. So im conflicted.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:49 pm |
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These people have been known to rig dead bodies with explosives, and obviously live ones with explosives as well. It is called precaution, and I think the military has a right to exercise it.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:49 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | I somewhat agree. But if the man was unarmed and dieing. Then they violated the Rules of War. If we ignore the Rules. Then we bcome no better than them.
Then again alot of the Terrorist do dirty tactics like this. So im conflicted. |
Yes. They don't follow the Rules of War. However, this was a frightening situation. I think that perhaps it's understandable under the circumstances.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:54 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Founder wrote: | I somewhat agree. But if the man was unarmed and dieing. Then they violated the Rules of War. If we ignore the Rules. Then we bcome no better than them.
Then again alot of the Terrorist do dirty tactics like this. So im conflicted. |
Yes. They don't follow the Rules of War. However, this was a frightening situation. I think that perhaps it's understandable under the circumstances. |
Yeah I agree. This was a bad sitatuion. I just hope killing of unarmed Iraqis end there.
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:50 am |
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Just another scared soldier making a bad call. He cant be blamed for it though. War *beep* you all up inside, cant think straight.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:28 am |
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Thats terrible...
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:37 am |
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Apparently, the guy had been shot the previous day, in the face. He was sent back to the front, something which seems a bit silly. I mean for christsake, in the face! Also, someone in this very squad/platoon? (not sure of the terminology) had been killed because of a booby-trapped corpse not long ago either. And it's not as if mistakes like this haven't happened before. It has happened in every single war that has ever taken place. Wars is hell, innocent people die. Now, I'm not saying we should be in Iraq right now, but there's nothing we can do about that.
But let's not crucify this young chap because he made a mistake.
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Deciviel
Captain
Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 508
Location: Joe's Garage
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| Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:09 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Yes. They don't follow the Rules of War. However, this was a frightening situation. I think that perhaps it's understandable under the circumstances. |
I agree. It certainly wasn't the right thing to do, but he panicked and wasn't sure if the guy was dead or not. Under the circumstances (war is a horrible place, littered with confusion), it's easy to make a mistake. I'm not saying this shouldn't be looked into and have some ramifications, I'm just saying that it's clearly understandable in the given conditions.
-------signature-------
"Wheeee. Now say 'nuclear wessels'."
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Alucard
Vampire
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 2780
Location: Caaaaaanada
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| Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:41 am |
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| Founder wrote: | I somewhat agree. But if the man was unarmed and dieing. Then they violated the Rules of War. If we ignore the Rules. Then we bcome no better than them.
Then again alot of the Terrorist do dirty tactics like this. So im conflicted. |
I agree, with no rules, what is left to do? just destroy random things at will?
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:23 pm |
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The "rules of war" are made by beaurecrats, politicians, and bigwhigs who sit in their cozy offices in the states. When it gets to real life war and violence, you cant really be expected to be of the same mind set, therefore its ridiculous to be expected to follow rules like that.
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Alucard
Vampire
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 2780
Location: Caaaaaanada
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| Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:00 pm |
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good argument, but still he could have taken him prisoner or something like that.
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:41 pm |
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One role I will NEVER play is that of an Armchair General.
I DO NOT condone the killing of unarmed civilians and I accept that throughout history, there will have been some horrific incidents. But it's easy for the media to pontificate on matters such as these. Soldiers and Officers are there in the field, apolitical, and doing their job.
The media and the Armchair Generals sit there talking about "this" and "that" but a solider/officer has a split-second to make a decision, based on the safety of his men and other civilians. Hopefully, when mistakes are made, then they will be learned from.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:04 pm |
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| Starfleet Dentist wrote: | One role I will NEVER play is that of an Armchair General.
I DO NOT condone the killing of unarmed civilians and I accept that throughout history, there will have been some horrific incidents. But it's easy for the media to pontificate on matters such as these. Soldiers and Officers are there in the field, apolitical, and doing their job.
The media and the Armchair Generals sit there talking about "this" and "that" but a solider/officer has a split-second to make a decision, based on the safety of his men and other civilians. Hopefully, when mistakes are made, then they will be learned from. |
Alright, first off the media should NOT have shown this video! It should have just gone to the Pentagon for an investigation!
Also, the day before the enemy had set off booby traps. Troops thought that they were dead, etc. For instance, that day (the day before) a couple of troops saw an injured Iraqi, down and out. They went over to help him, but were all blown up in a suicide bomb. That's the chance you have to take. They look down, and they don't look dangerous, but now, they fake it.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:18 pm |
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| Defiant wrote: | | The "rules of war" are made by beaurecrats, politicians, and bigwhigs who sit in their cozy offices in the states. When it gets to real life war and violence, you cant really be expected to be of the same mind set, therefore its ridiculous to be expected to follow rules like that. |
Bull***t. The Rules are there for a reason and should be followed. Yes, sometimes you can't follow them and under those circumstances than it should be overlooked. But if you murder civilians left and right then something must be done.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:19 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | Defiant wrote: | | The "rules of war" are made by beaurecrats, politicians, and bigwhigs who sit in their cozy offices in the states. When it gets to real life war and violence, you cant really be expected to be of the same mind set, therefore its ridiculous to be expected to follow rules like that. |
Bull***t. The Rules are there for a reason and should be followed. Yes, sometimes you can't follow them and under those circumstances than it should be overlooked. But if you murder civilians left and right then something must be done. |
EXACTLY. But wait--Dennis Kucinich has stated the the President was targeting civilians for assassination!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:20 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | Defiant wrote: | | The "rules of war" are made by beaurecrats, politicians, and bigwhigs who sit in their cozy offices in the states. When it gets to real life war and violence, you cant really be expected to be of the same mind set, therefore its ridiculous to be expected to follow rules like that. |
Bull***t. The Rules are there for a reason and should be followed. Yes, sometimes you can't follow them and under those circumstances than it should be overlooked. But if you murder civilians left and right then something must be done. |
EXACTLY. But wait--Dennis Kucinich has stated the the President was targeting civilians for assassination! |
Why would Bush kill random civilians?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:22 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | Defiant wrote: | | The "rules of war" are made by beaurecrats, politicians, and bigwhigs who sit in their cozy offices in the states. When it gets to real life war and violence, you cant really be expected to be of the same mind set, therefore its ridiculous to be expected to follow rules like that. |
Bull***t. The Rules are there for a reason and should be followed. Yes, sometimes you can't follow them and under those circumstances than it should be overlooked. But if you murder civilians left and right then something must be done. |
EXACTLY. But wait--Dennis Kucinich has stated the the President was targeting civilians for assassination! |
Why would Bush kill random civilians? |
EXACTLY. And he hasn't.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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borgslayer
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 2646
Location: Las Vegas
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| Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:54 pm |
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Well what happened was the day before one of the marines buddy got shot and killed when they came upon an insurgent who was playing dead then suddenly shot his friend. So too make sure that doesnt happen again he decided to shoot his enemy.
What the marine did is justified..
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:06 am |
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| borgslayer wrote: | Well what happened was the day before one of the marines buddy got shot and killed when they came upon an insurgent who was playing dead then suddenly shot his friend. So too make sure that doesnt happen again he decided to shoot his enemy.
What the marine did is justified.. |
I agree.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Five - seveN
Rear Admiral
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 3567
Location: Shadow Moon
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| Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:55 am |
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Dammit, have y'all seen that video? Did you hear what the marine said? I don't think you want to...
I mostly agree with Founder, though.
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Krall
Klingon General
Joined: 03 Sep 2002
Posts: 3863
Location: Lie? I do not lie! Except just then.
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| Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:06 pm |
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Oki This may have been said already but, How is forceing a Civ. Aircraft into Building to kill everyone in it. Part of the rules of war? More or less the @$$holes deserve it and it may be inhumane,but these people want nothing better to do then to kill people. and NO forced death is humane. Painless or not.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:57 pm |
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| Five - seveN wrote: | Dammit, have y'all seen that video? Did you hear what the marine said? I don't think you want to...
I mostly agree with Founder, though. |
Yes. I've seen it. And although I hate the F-word, it was all justified, what he said. As you know, a similar thing happened the day before 
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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