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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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 Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:43 am |
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My personal advice to everyone: Let RM rant and rave theres no use to debate with him after all RM is always right  *sarcasam*
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| ~Tony Montana wrote: | | You know what you need people like me people for you to snub your nose at and point at saying there is a bad man. Well guess what This bad man is leaving. Say goodnight to the BAD MAN! |
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:14 am |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | My personal advice to everyone: Let RM rant and rave theres no use to debate with him after all RM is always right *sarcasam* |
You know that's the plea of a desperate man losing a debate. If the best argument one can make is a sarcastic remark toward the other, then their form needs work.
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:50 am |
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In case you hadn't noticed, Jeff was not really debating.
I haven't seen FahrenHype, actually, but I'm sure it's got pretty good points too, since, logically, it corrects the bias that Moore has. But also, it replaces some of Moore's Liberal bias and lies, with Republican bias and lies.
So, to sum it up, the first is probably just as lousy as the other.
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:26 am |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | Jeff Miller wrote: | | My personal advice to everyone: Let RM rant and rave theres no use to debate with him after all RM is always right *sarcasam* |
You know that's the plea of a desperate man losing a debate. If the best argument one can make is a sarcastic remark toward the other, then their form needs work. |
oh you mean like insulting one based on what they look like? and Cappy D is right I wasn't debating. But to judge someone on their looks it screams one word
Shallow
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| ~Tony Montana wrote: | | You know what you need people like me people for you to snub your nose at and point at saying there is a bad man. Well guess what This bad man is leaving. Say goodnight to the BAD MAN! |
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Toad
Chief of Security
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 936
Location: The Great Plains
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:28 am |
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MICHAEL MOORE IS A BIG, FAT SLOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:29 am |
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uh you have one too many of !<-----these just my observation though.  
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| ~Tony Montana wrote: | | You know what you need people like me people for you to snub your nose at and point at saying there is a bad man. Well guess what This bad man is leaving. Say goodnight to the BAD MAN! |
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:02 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Hitchhiker wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | ILoveHarry wrote: | | Whatever gets you through the night, kiddo. |
You HONESTLY believe the Lie to be the Truth? My gosh! You know what? Watch FahrenHYPE. Get some truth into you. |
But truth is subjective and entirely dependent on common frames of references, previous biases, and subjective interpretations on the part of not only the director, but even the person being interviewed.
Therefore, neither perspective will ever admit that Fahrenheit or FahrenHype are accurate accounts |
No, no, no! Fahrenheit IS lies. It truly is. It's NOT "perspective." It is NOT FACT. That's what I mean by truth--FACT. He either lies or distorts the truth! My gosh, you just don't seem to understand it... |
Does Bush lie/distort the truth?
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:18 pm |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | Jeff Miller wrote: | | My personal advice to everyone: Let RM rant and rave theres no use to debate with him after all RM is always right *sarcasam* |
You know that's the plea of a desperate man losing a debate. If the best argument one can make is a sarcastic remark toward the other, then their form needs work. |
oh you mean like insulting one based on what they look like? and Cappy D is right I wasn't debating. But to judge someone on their looks it screams one word
Shallow |
I take it you mean when I called Michael Moore fat? All I did was the same thing you did when you said Bush looked like a "Moneky". What do Liberals say? "Fair game"?
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:55 pm |
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I think the difference between calling Moore fat and calling Bush a monkey, is that it doesn't affect Moore at all in what he does. Bush, on the other hand, is the President of the most powerful country in the world, so a certain level of intelligence is expected.
I mean, Moore is fat. But I don't see the point in calling him it, because it has no relevance to his job.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:17 pm |
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| Kyre wrote: | I think the difference between calling Moore fat and calling Bush a monkey, is that it doesn't affect Moore at all in what he does. Bush, on the other hand, is the President of the most powerful country in the world, so a certain level of intelligence is expected.
I mean, Moore is fat. But I don't see the point in calling him it, because it has no relevance to his job. |
It does if you think about it. He claims to find all these conspiracies but he can't even tell if his socks match cause of his fat. So I can't trust him.
Look both comments are immature. I won't restract them but I'll drop the whole name calling.
On topic....The sequal will be about what? More stuff on the war on Iraq?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:41 pm |
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| Captain Dappet wrote: | In case you hadn't noticed, Jeff was not really debating.
I haven't seen FahrenHype, actually, but I'm sure it's got pretty good points too, since, logically, it corrects the bias that Moore has. But also, it replaces some of Moore's Liberal bias and lies, with Republican bias and lies.
So, to sum it up, the first is probably just as lousy as the other. |
No. Actually, HYPE is the facts. And btw, it has the principal of the school Bush was at on 9/11, and two of the people interviewed in Fahrenheit, all agreeing that it's lies and distortions!
| Founder wrote: | | Kyre wrote: | I think the difference between calling Moore fat and calling Bush a monkey, is that it doesn't affect Moore at all in what he does. Bush, on the other hand, is the President of the most powerful country in the world, so a certain level of intelligence is expected.
I mean, Moore is fat. But I don't see the point in calling him it, because it has no relevance to his job. |
It does if you think about it. He claims to find all these conspiracies but he can't even tell if his socks match cause of his fat. So I can't trust him.
Look both comments are immature. I won't restract them but I'll drop the whole name calling.
On topic....The sequal will be about what? More stuff on the war on Iraq? |
EXACTLY. Moore is nothing more than a lying big fat stupid white man.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:16 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Captain Dappet wrote: | In case you hadn't noticed, Jeff was not really debating.
I haven't seen FahrenHype, actually, but I'm sure it's got pretty good points too, since, logically, it corrects the bias that Moore has. But also, it replaces some of Moore's Liberal bias and lies, with Republican bias and lies.
So, to sum it up, the first is probably just as lousy as the other. |
No. Actually, HYPE is the facts. And btw, it has the principal of the school Bush was at on 9/11, and two of the people interviewed in Fahrenheit, all agreeing that it's lies and distortions!
| Founder wrote: | | Kyre wrote: | I think the difference between calling Moore fat and calling Bush a monkey, is that it doesn't affect Moore at all in what he does. Bush, on the other hand, is the President of the most powerful country in the world, so a certain level of intelligence is expected.
I mean, Moore is fat. But I don't see the point in calling him it, because it has no relevance to his job. |
It does if you think about it. He claims to find all these conspiracies but he can't even tell if his socks match cause of his fat. So I can't trust him.
Look both comments are immature. I won't restract them but I'll drop the whole name calling.
On topic....The sequal will be about what? More stuff on the war on Iraq? |
EXACTLY. Moore is nothing more than a lying big fat stupid white man. |
So you're saying you don't trust fat people?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:15 pm |
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| Kyre wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Captain Dappet wrote: | In case you hadn't noticed, Jeff was not really debating.
I haven't seen FahrenHype, actually, but I'm sure it's got pretty good points too, since, logically, it corrects the bias that Moore has. But also, it replaces some of Moore's Liberal bias and lies, with Republican bias and lies.
So, to sum it up, the first is probably just as lousy as the other. |
No. Actually, HYPE is the facts. And btw, it has the principal of the school Bush was at on 9/11, and two of the people interviewed in Fahrenheit, all agreeing that it's lies and distortions!
| Founder wrote: | | Kyre wrote: | I think the difference between calling Moore fat and calling Bush a monkey, is that it doesn't affect Moore at all in what he does. Bush, on the other hand, is the President of the most powerful country in the world, so a certain level of intelligence is expected.
I mean, Moore is fat. But I don't see the point in calling him it, because it has no relevance to his job. |
It does if you think about it. He claims to find all these conspiracies but he can't even tell if his socks match cause of his fat. So I can't trust him.
Look both comments are immature. I won't restract them but I'll drop the whole name calling.
On topic....The sequal will be about what? More stuff on the war on Iraq? |
EXACTLY. Moore is nothing more than a lying big fat stupid white man. |
So you're saying you don't trust fat people? |
No, NO! I'm just quoting the name of a book that counter's Moore's book. He is fat, and he's white, and he's stupid.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:24 pm |
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So you would read a book that resorts to name calling when trying to prove that Michael Moore is a liar, and damaging to America (which he may well be)?
Because to tell you the truth, even if I didn't respect MM, I sure as hell wouldn't give my time to people trying to disprove him by calling him fat.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:30 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | He is fat, and he's white, and he's stupid. |
Doesn't that pretty much sum up one the largest North American demographics?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:43 pm |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | He is fat, and he's white, and he's stupid. |
Doesn't that pretty much sum up one the largest North American demographics? |
Come on! It's just the name of a book, as a response to Moore's "Stupid white men." It just adds the "fat" because that is an expression, "Stupid, fat" not meaning any attack of his physical features, and that is DEFINITELY not what the book is about. There is nothing wrong about that! Gosh!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:44 pm |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | Jeff Miller wrote: | | My personal advice to everyone: Let RM rant and rave theres no use to debate with him after all RM is always right *sarcasam* |
You know that's the plea of a desperate man losing a debate. If the best argument one can make is a sarcastic remark toward the other, then their form needs work. |
oh you mean like insulting one based on what they look like? and Cappy D is right I wasn't debating. But to judge someone on their looks it screams one word
Shallow |
When did RM judge someone by their looks? I don't see it.
So, you attacked RM for what someone else said?
I'm still failing to see your point...
But to quote Micheal Moore's book's title Stupid White Men, and to add in the beginning of the title of Moore's good buddy, Al Franken's book Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot he spun the Liberal name calling back at them.
It's not shallow, it's savvy.
Last edited by LightningBoy on Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:48 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:44 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | | Jeff Miller wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: | | Jeff Miller wrote: | | My personal advice to everyone: Let RM rant and rave theres no use to debate with him after all RM is always right *sarcasam* |
You know that's the plea of a desperate man losing a debate. If the best argument one can make is a sarcastic remark toward the other, then their form needs work. |
oh you mean like insulting one based on what they look like? and Cappy D is right I wasn't debating. But to judge someone on their looks it screams one word
Shallow |
When did RM judge someone by their looks? I don't see it.
So, you attacked RM for what someone else said?
I'm still failing to see your point... |
EXACTLY. I NEVER judged him for his looks. No, I did not.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:17 pm |
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RM:
Calm down.
I know that I'm a Liberal Democrat who isn't religious and in your eyes that means I'm pretty close to being evil.
But even I can at least look at other peoples points of view and accept that they belive in whatever they believe in, and I do try not to slander people because of their beliefs.
I can see that you dislike Moore a lot. (understatement of the century), but please accept that there are people who see truth in his movies.
I personally have not seen his movie, but I can see the reations from it. And I think his movie did our country a great service. It got people to think. No matter what their political affiliations.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:27 pm |
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| TrekkieMage wrote: | RM:
Calm down.
I know that I'm a Liberal Democrat who isn't religious and in your eyes that means I'm pretty close to being evil.
But even I can at least look at other peoples points of view and accept that they belive in whatever they believe in, and I do try not to slander people because of their beliefs.
I can see that you dislike Moore a lot. (understatement of the century), but please accept that there are people who see truth in his movies.
I personally have not seen his movie, but I can see the reations from it. And I think his movie did our country a great service. It got people to think. No matter what their political affiliations. |
I like to accept people's views, but...my gosh, a service? If you went into all the school history books and portrayed people like FDR and Bill Clinton as evil idiots who destroyed the country...you'd call that a service? I know it wasn't a school book, and this whole "Freedom of Speech" thing, but call it a documentary is FALSE ADVERTISING. Really, people like Moore make the Democratic party seem very neurotic. Which the party doesn't need. However, if they think Moore helps them, so be it... (And yes, I'm aware that not all Democrats agree with him, don't get me wrong.)
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:15 pm |
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| Exalya wrote: |
I like to accept people's views, but...my gosh, a service? If you went into all the school history books and portrayed people like FDR and Bill Clinton as evil idiots who destroyed the country...you'd call that a service? I know it wasn't a school book, and this whole "Freedom of Speech" thing, but call it a documentary is FALSE ADVERTISING. Really, people like Moore make the Democratic party seem very neurotic. Which the party doesn't need. However, if they think Moore helps them, so be it... (And yes, I'm aware that not all Democrats agree with him, don't get me wrong.) |
I called it a service because it got people to talk and think.
I never said anything about him being correct.
And technically, the movie is labled as a documentary. Yes, it is very biased. But it is recognized by the film industry as being a documentary.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:32 pm |
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| TrekkieMage wrote: | | Exalya wrote: |
I like to accept people's views, but...my gosh, a service? If you went into all the school history books and portrayed people like FDR and Bill Clinton as evil idiots who destroyed the country...you'd call that a service? I know it wasn't a school book, and this whole "Freedom of Speech" thing, but call it a documentary is FALSE ADVERTISING. Really, people like Moore make the Democratic party seem very neurotic. Which the party doesn't need. However, if they think Moore helps them, so be it... (And yes, I'm aware that not all Democrats agree with him, don't get me wrong.) |
I called it a service because it got people to talk and think.
I never said anything about him being correct.
And technically, the movie is labled as a documentary. Yes, it is very biased. But it is recognized by the film industry as being a documentary. |
I don't care who calls it a documentary, that's misleading. And neither do I really care that it makes people "think." You can make people think without telling huge, blatant lies to the masses. You can make people interested without totally destroying credibility. The idiocy of Moore's films are downright astounding, and that people actually think it helps the liberal cause is even more astounding. But oh well. If people are happy with the side of liberalism Moore portrays, so be it. It's those tactics and mindsets that are hurting the Democratic party. I'd *like* to think that Moore's ideals are not what most Democrats stand for, but with the support he gets, they're not showing that. And they wonder why they've become the minority government-wise...
(To be clear: I'm not blaming Moore exclusively for their loss, and again, I note that he is not supported by all Dems...so nobody catches me on that...most of my statements were generalizations...)
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Not the doctor... yet
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:04 pm |
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| TrekkieMage wrote: | | Exalya wrote: |
I like to accept people's views, but...my gosh, a service? If you went into all the school history books and portrayed people like FDR and Bill Clinton as evil idiots who destroyed the country...you'd call that a service? I know it wasn't a school book, and this whole "Freedom of Speech" thing, but call it a documentary is FALSE ADVERTISING. Really, people like Moore make the Democratic party seem very neurotic. Which the party doesn't need. However, if they think Moore helps them, so be it... (And yes, I'm aware that not all Democrats agree with him, don't get me wrong.) |
I called it a service because it got people to talk and think.
I never said anything about him being correct.
And technically, the movie is labled as a documentary. Yes, it is very biased. But it is recognized by the film industry as being a documentary. |
It's not good to get people to think, when it's lies they have to think about.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:09 pm |
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Some of the stuff in it was definatly lies and twisting the truth. Saying that some of the stuff was true. I haven't seen Hype, but I'm sure it does the same, to a lesser or greater extend.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:31 pm |
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| Exalya wrote: | | TrekkieMage wrote: | | Exalya wrote: |
I like to accept people's views, but...my gosh, a service? If you went into all the school history books and portrayed people like FDR and Bill Clinton as evil idiots who destroyed the country...you'd call that a service? I know it wasn't a school book, and this whole "Freedom of Speech" thing, but call it a documentary is FALSE ADVERTISING. Really, people like Moore make the Democratic party seem very neurotic. Which the party doesn't need. However, if they think Moore helps them, so be it... (And yes, I'm aware that not all Democrats agree with him, don't get me wrong.) |
I called it a service because it got people to talk and think.
I never said anything about him being correct.
And technically, the movie is labled as a documentary. Yes, it is very biased. But it is recognized by the film industry as being a documentary. |
I don't care who calls it a documentary, that's misleading. And neither do I really care that it makes people "think." You can make people think without telling huge, blatant lies to the masses. You can make people interested without totally destroying credibility. The idiocy of Moore's films are downright astounding, and that people actually think it helps the liberal cause is even more astounding. But oh well. If people are happy with the side of liberalism Moore portrays, so be it. It's those tactics and mindsets that are hurting the Democratic party. I'd *like* to think that Moore's ideals are not what most Democrats stand for, but with the support he gets, they're not showing that. And they wonder why they've become the minority government-wise...
(To be clear: I'm not blaming Moore exclusively for their loss, and again, I note that he is not supported by all Dems...so nobody catches me on that...most of my statements were generalizations...) |
EXACTLY, yes, but you know what? Moore has even STATED HIMSELF that he is a "filmmaker," not a Documenter. And that's truth. A Documentary discusses truth and has many interviews. Moore does not, and he has few interviews.
| Jeremy wrote: | | Some of the stuff in it was definatly lies and twisting the truth. Saying that some of the stuff was true. I haven't seen Hype, but I'm sure it does the same, to a lesser or greater extend. |
Trust me, you should REALLY see both, and then compare Hype, which is more like a History Channel Documentary, to Moore's film. It has interviews of MANY different people, and has for much of it:
-Dick Morris
-Zell Miller
-Ron Silver
-Ed Koch
-David Kopel (life-long Dem who endorsed and voted for Nader in 2000)
-MANY MORE. It's not crap like Moore's film, and it's not spin, and it gets down to the truth. I encourage you to watch both, and make your own decisions on them.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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