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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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 Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:42 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | Im conflicted on this issue. I won't side with either leader from Palestine and Israel. Israel treats the Palestinians like they are sub human. Their commetns are so dumb too.
"The Palestinians bomb us! They are terrorist! Wht did we do to deserve this!?"
Oh I don't know...maybe subjugate the Palestinians! |
No, no, no. Have you even seen the peace stuff that the Israelis have done? MUCH. And what have they done? SHUNNED IT AWAY. And they are using terrorist tactics, like human bombs, to treat the ISRAELIs like sub-humans. I say PUSH FOR PEACE!
Last edited by Republican_Man on Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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superwoman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5742
Location: Sweden
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:49 pm |
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Are you saying that Israel hasn't done ANYTHING?
Cuz they have.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:56 pm |
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| superwoman wrote: | Are you saying that Israel hasn't done ANYTHING?
Cuz they have. |
Perhaps they've done a bit--yes, but they are at less fault than Palestine. At least, for instance, they don't pay people off for homocide bombings (Saddam did that, btw.)
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:47 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | Im conflicted on this issue. I won't side with either leader from Palestine and Israel. Israel treats the Palestinians like they are sub human. Their commetns are so dumb too.
"The Palestinians bomb us! They are terrorist! Wht did we do to deserve this!?"
Oh I don't know...maybe subjugate the Palestinians! |
Both sides have done wrong. If someone says otherwise they are either don't know a thing about the situation, or are so biased they can't accept all the facts. But a few things most people don't know (and thoughts by myself):
After the creation of Israel the palestinians went back to farming and so on, and the only reason that the six day war started was because of the other Arab countries attacking Israel, so the Palestinians wouldn't have got into fighting with Israel probably if it wasn't for the other Arabs. As a result, Palestinians and Israli's fought, and so came to distrust each other and started revenge attacks, as someone had killed someones father, so they killed another person and so on.
Why do the Arabs not help (in a big way) the Palistinians if they care about them so much? It's because they are an amazing propaganda weapon against the Jews. Think how many people here in the west don't like the Jews because of the situation.
Why do a lot of the groups on both sides not accept some of the peace plans that are good for them? One of the reasons is that they want to be able to attack the other sides and wipe them out, so they need trouble to keep happening so that they can stay in power and get people to rally to them.
And people who call for Israel to get rid of their weapons and so on, look around Israel, what is there? Oh, all the Arab countries that attacked them about 60 years ago. What a sensible idea! I know 60 years is a long time, but the Israli's will never be able to lay down their weapons in a situation like this.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:03 pm |
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| Jeremy wrote: | | Founder wrote: | Im conflicted on this issue. I won't side with either leader from Palestine and Israel. Israel treats the Palestinians like they are sub human. Their commetns are so dumb too.
"The Palestinians bomb us! They are terrorist! Wht did we do to deserve this!?"
Oh I don't know...maybe subjugate the Palestinians! |
Both sides have done wrong. If someone says otherwise they are either don't know a thing about the situation, or are so biased they can't accept all the facts. But a few things most people don't know (and thoughts by myself):
After the creation of Israel the palestinians went back to farming and so on, and the only reason that the six day war started was because of the other Arab countries attacking Israel, so the Palestinians wouldn't have got into fighting with Israel probably if it wasn't for the other Arabs. As a result, Palestinians and Israli's fought, and so came to distrust each other and started revenge attacks, as someone had killed someones father, so they killed another person and so on.
Why do the Arabs not help (in a big way) the Palistinians if they care about them so much? It's because they are an amazing propaganda weapon against the Jews. Think how many people here in the west don't like the Jews because of the situation.
Why do a lot of the groups on both sides not accept some of the peace plans that are good for them? One of the reasons is that they want to be able to attack the other sides and wipe them out, so they need trouble to keep happening so that they can stay in power and get people to rally to them.
And people who call for Israel to get rid of their weapons and so on, look around Israel, what is there? Oh, all the Arab countries that attacked them about 60 years ago. What a sensible idea! I know 60 years is a long time, but the Israli's will never be able to lay down their weapons in a situation like this. |
You know, those are all good points. Yes, you can't neglect the fact that Israel is at fault, but it is even more important that we analyize what the Palestinians are doing, like, oh, uh, killing innocent men, women, and children through homocide bombings? It's little better than 9/11, as it has happened so much, if at all better.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:32 pm |
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I still don't see how he won the Nobel Peace Prize after being head of a terrorist organization for so many years. Sheesh.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:42 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | I still don't see how he won the Nobel Peace Prize after being head of a terrorist organization for so many years. Sheesh. |
I know. And the Pope hasn't even gotten one! 
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:24 am |
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I agree with everyones points. Both sides are at fault. I just think that the Palestinians methods, which go way too far IMO, aren't being done for fun. The Israeli's have done some VERY bad stuff. Both sides have though.
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:38 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | I still don't see how he won the Nobel Peace Prize after being head of a terrorist organization for so many years. Sheesh. |
I know. And the Pope hasn't even gotten one! |
The Pope? What had the Pope done to deserve the Nobel Prize? 
Anyway, I believe Israel is at fault. They shouldnt even be there, dammit! It's Palestinian land. True, it was Jewish thousands of years ago, but that is no justification for just taking the Palestinians land and making it their own.
Lets say, hypothetically that...Communists, around the world get support from the UN, and we say that we want America, and we want the Americans to go live somewhere else.
This is done, and the Americans get chased off to live somwhere else. Of course, some of the American people would grab their shotguns and fight us, and we'd fight back. Voil�, conflict.
Thats basically what happened, as far as I've heard.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:44 pm |
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So what should have happened with the Jews in 1947 then?
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:12 pm |
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Well, they shouldn't have chased the Palestinians away from their homes. To be blunt, I dont think they should've been given a country of their own at all.
But, since America likes them, they could've given them a State or something.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:15 pm |
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They didn't. Blame Britian and the UN for that.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:33 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | I agree with everyones points. Both sides are at fault. I just think that the Palestinians methods, which go way too far IMO, aren't being done for fun. The Israeli's have done some VERY bad stuff. Both sides have though. |
I don't believe that they are done "for fun." I just think it's evil and it is degrading and WRONG. They are TERRORIST TACTICS. Both sides should work out an agreement, similar to Barack's in the late 90's, early 2000. The Israelis gave almost EVERYTHING, and yet Arafat shut it out.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:40 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | I agree with everyones points. Both sides are at fault. I just think that the Palestinians methods, which go way too far IMO, aren't being done for fun. The Israeli's have done some VERY bad stuff. Both sides have though. |
I don't believe that they are done "for fun." I just think it's evil and it is degrading and WRONG. They are TERRORIST TACTICS. Both sides should work out an agreement, similar to Barack's in the late 90's, early 2000. The Israelis gave almost EVERYTHING, and yet Arafat shut it out. |
I just watched a documentary about Israel and Palestine. You're right. Palestine is definitly not a "saint" country. BOTH sides are wrong. Israel should NOT have taken the land(not blaming the US). Palestine should NOT resort to Terrorism. Although they have very little else. Palestine doesn't have the nice shiny weapons that the US gives to Israel. Something should be worked out but I think things are so bad between them that neither side want it.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:48 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | I agree with everyones points. Both sides are at fault. I just think that the Palestinians methods, which go way too far IMO, aren't being done for fun. The Israeli's have done some VERY bad stuff. Both sides have though. |
I don't believe that they are done "for fun." I just think it's evil and it is degrading and WRONG. They are TERRORIST TACTICS. Both sides should work out an agreement, similar to Barack's in the late 90's, early 2000. The Israelis gave almost EVERYTHING, and yet Arafat shut it out. |
I just watched a documentary about Israel and Palestine. You're right. Palestine is definitly not a "saint" country. BOTH sides are wrong. Israel should NOT have taken the land(not blaming the US). Palestine should NOT resort to Terrorism. Although they have very little else. Palestine doesn't have the nice shiny weapons that the US gives to Israel. Something should be worked out but I think things are so bad between them that neither side want it. |
I see Israel with a right to the land. And I see Palestine with a right to the land. I see that there needs to be an agreement.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:49 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | I agree with everyones points. Both sides are at fault. I just think that the Palestinians methods, which go way too far IMO, aren't being done for fun. The Israeli's have done some VERY bad stuff. Both sides have though. |
I don't believe that they are done "for fun." I just think it's evil and it is degrading and WRONG. They are TERRORIST TACTICS. Both sides should work out an agreement, similar to Barack's in the late 90's, early 2000. The Israelis gave almost EVERYTHING, and yet Arafat shut it out. |
I just watched a documentary about Israel and Palestine. You're right. Palestine is definitly not a "saint" country. BOTH sides are wrong. Israel should NOT have taken the land(not blaming the US). Palestine should NOT resort to Terrorism. Although they have very little else. Palestine doesn't have the nice shiny weapons that the US gives to Israel. Something should be worked out but I think things are so bad between them that neither side want it. |
I see Israel with a right to the land. And I see Palestine with a right to the land. I see that there needs to be an agreement. |
I agree. Im not sure if an agreement can be reached unless both sides swallow their pride.
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:24 pm |
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I'm going to repeat myself again...
I feel for innocent Palestinians and Israelis caught up in this. Founder is right, no one is willing to swallow their pride. It's tit for tat violence. No-one wants to compromise.
It's terrible, it really is. As I've said a million times on this forum, if I were to fly above the world and look down at Israel and Palestine, I would not be able to tell where one starts and ends. It's just land to me, enough for everyone. I've been saying this about the world for a long time.
There's no reason Israelis and Palestinians cannot live together side-by-side. I fear that there is too much history to ever reach a peaceful settlement. But, someday, both sides will have to accept that the cycle of violence MUST be broken, for the sakes of both sides.
What a beautiful world we live in. What a future we could all have, living in peace and making full use of our creativity. But, no, in all areas of the world, people fight over land. And I strongly suspect some wars have been raging for so long, that neither side can remember what started it.
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Otter
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 12895
Location: England
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| Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:45 pm |
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Well put Starfleet Dentist!
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:38 pm |
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Generally the people wanted peace a number of years ago, but because of a number of influential figures who wanted to make their own gains, or increase the tension between Israel and the Palisinians/Arabs this won't work. The leaders caused there to be problems, and so started fighting. This caused a tit for tat on killing people and a breakdown of trust, so it probably won't work in the near future at least.
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