| Should UK police officers be armed? |
| Yes |
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89% |
[ 17 ] |
| No |
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10% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 19 |
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superwoman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5742
Location: Sweden
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 Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:56 am |
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| Captain Dappet wrote: | | Oh, and Superwoman; Do you remember the Police Killings in Malexander? What do you think the outcome would've been if the Police didn't carry guns at that point? Both Policemen would be dead, surely, instead of just one. At least...I think one survived...heheh, it was a long time ago. |
I must say I don't remember that incident all to well. But I think the policemen would have pulled back and called for inforcements instead of... well.. shooting back, if they didn't have guns  But now they did shoot back and (atleast) one police got killed...
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:05 pm |
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And if they hadn't defended themselves, what would they have done? Taken a cup of coffee behind the car, when the bad guys were shooting at them, while waiting for reinforcements?
A bullet could've hit the fuel tank or something. Kaboom. Both officers down. And if they hadn't had weapons, nothing would stop the criminals from just walking up and shoot their brains out. Policemen need to be able to defend themselves against armed criminals.
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superwoman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5742
Location: Sweden
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:22 pm |
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| Captain Dappet wrote: | And if they hadn't defended themselves, what would they have done? Taken a cup of coffee behind the car, when the bad guys were shooting at them, while waiting for reinforcements?
A bullet could've hit the fuel tank or something. Kaboom. Both officers down. And if they hadn't had weapons, nothing would stop the criminals from just walking up and shoot their brains out. Policemen need to be able to defend themselves against armed criminals. |
LOL! The first thing I just have to point out... Kaboom? A bullet in the fuel tank... You've watched way to many action films 
And the bad guys would probably try to get away from there.  Why would they ever want to stay? They only stoped cuz they were "pursuited"... If the policemen didn't shot back, then the bad guys would have probably shoot a few bullets... and then leave. At least that's what I would have done. Killing police men isn't something anyone wan't to be guilty for doing. It's such a huge crime... Stop to kill unarmed policemen is just stupid. and big criminals aren't stupid.
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:29 pm |
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I didnt actually mean ONE bullet.
And if they leave, that would be awesome, wouldn't it? They would've left the country, and never had been put to justice, and that's just great.
And furthermore the "violence feeds violence"-thing doesn't really work. If someone is being very violent towards you, and you're not, what do you think would happen? The other guy stops? Hardly. You end up hurt, severely wounded, hospitalized and possibly, dead.
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superwoman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5742
Location: Sweden
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:54 pm |
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I don't think it's easy to blow up a car by shooting at it  The pressure and everything is much greater is a car crash or something and that doesn't blow up the car... exept for in bond movies...
yees... anyway...
Violence do feed violance! If someone hits me don't you think I wanna hit that guy back! I mean I would probably hit that guy. I so totally would. But I don't go out and start a fight myself... Selfdefens you know. The only problem is that guns don't work that way. You won't get less injured by using a gun... ok if the other person don't have a gun, then maybe... but don't you think that guy will go and buy one after that? And then he/she will have one. Guns are dangerous! I'd say use as few as possible!
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We will never run out of oil, because no one will afford to use the last litre.
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:25 pm |
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But since criminals have guns, it's just stupid to not let the Police have them. Then criminals could just about roam free with guns.
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sabertooth1217
UPN Boycotter
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 11484
Location: Texas
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:58 pm |
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I'm not in the UK but I think that all officers hould have some type of advantage compared to other random people, a fist fight might not always be good for all officers.
| Captain Dappet wrote: | | But since criminals have guns, it's just stupid to not let the Police have them. Then criminals could just about roam free with guns. |
I agree
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superwoman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5742
Location: Sweden
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:20 pm |
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| Captain Dappet wrote: | | But since criminals have guns, it's just stupid to not let the Police have them. Then criminals could just about roam free with guns. |
well you are wrong...
...IMO
It's just like when you were a kid and your brother punched you... so you punched back... harder... and then he had to puch You back... even harder... and then you had to punch him back even harder then that and then he kicked you so you started to cry and then you had to kick him in the groin to make him stop... and everyone would cry...
The only diffrence is that the guns kill.
Or like the viruses that can resist antibiotics... we take antibiotics for everything... like the slitest cold! And therefor the viruses adapt (or maybe it's bacteries? anyway) If we where to stop using antibiotics then the viruses will go back to beeing not so dangerous...
It's just the same with the guns.
-------signature-------
We will never run out of oil, because no one will afford to use the last litre.
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D_Star
Lieutenant
Joined: 09 Oct 2004
Posts: 151
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:18 pm |
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| Kyre wrote: | No.
Nothing says authority like a policeman who deals with criminals using just a baton, some handcuffs and good training. Of course there should be special firearms units, but regular police on the beat, no, I don't think they should be armed. |
So what's wrong with having a policeman who deals with criminals using just a baton, some handcuffs and good training PLUS a gun for backup?
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:18 pm |
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| superwoman wrote: | Or like the viruses that can resist antibiotics... we take antibiotics for everything... like the slitest cold! And therefor the viruses adapt (or maybe it's bacteries? anyway) If we where to stop using antibiotics then the viruses will go back to beeing not so dangerous...
It's just the same with the guns. |
We take antibiotics for bacterial infections. They do squat against viruses 
I agree, retaliation only breeds more disharmony. Guns don't solve anything, ever.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:43 pm |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | | superwoman wrote: | Or like the viruses that can resist antibiotics... we take antibiotics for everything... like the slitest cold! And therefor the viruses adapt (or maybe it's bacteries? anyway) If we where to stop using antibiotics then the viruses will go back to beeing not so dangerous...
It's just the same with the guns. |
We take antibiotics for bacterial infections. They do squat against viruses
I agree, retaliation only breeds more disharmony. Guns don't solve anything, ever. |
...ever. Huh. I know a lot of people who would disagree.
Example 1:
Policeman is caught in a fight in a remote part of town. He is seperated from most of his weapons--save the deringer in his boot. He's cornered. He draws his gun, and the criminal surrenders. True story.
Example 2:
Sheriff Deputy has followed a drunken criminal to a canal, at night. The criminal draws a gun, but the deputy already has his gun trained. The deputy, by being stern, is able to talk the man down. The man was bent on killing him. Another true story.
Two different men, two situations where everyone came out alive, in which the policeman would have been killed without a superior weapon. Both of whom I know personally. Would they have got out with a badge, baton, and handcuffs? Hah. Yeah, right. And what of the women? There won't be any women cops left! Think of it... Officer: WATCH OUT! I'M HALF YOUR MUSCLE-MASS, AND I'VE GOT A STICK! Yeah. Not to mention, THE most IMPORTANT thing my father ever taught me..
"Never bring a knife to a gun-fight."
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superwoman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5742
Location: Sweden
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| Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:44 pm |
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| Exalya wrote: | | Two different men, two situations where everyone came out alive, in which the policeman would have been killed without a superior weapon. Both of whom I know personally. Would they have got out with a badge, baton, and handcuffs? Hah. Yeah, right. And what of the women? There won't be any women cops left! Think of it... Officer: WATCH OUT! I'M HALF YOUR MUSCLE-MASS, AND I'VE GOT A STICK! Yeah. Not to mention, THE most IMPORTANT thing my father ever taught me.. |
Yeeeaaah... nice stories... don't you think guns have killed more people then it has saved? If there wheren't any guns then how many do you think will get killed, by guns?
And can't anyone of all you guys se the conection with criminals using more guns and the police using more guns? Not even a little tiniwiiini connection?
| Quote: | | "Never bring a knife to a gun-fight." |
I would say, don't fight.
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We will never run out of oil, because no one will afford to use the last litre.
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:52 pm |
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Well, unfortunately, guns cant be removed. And even if you should take action to remove them, you should NOT start with the Police force.
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:05 pm |
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I think every organisation in the world has to evolve. In the 50's and 60's, policemen rode bikes and worked in small villages, often with basic equipment. I think a truncheon was all they had.
But this is 2004. Unfortunately, I think they should be armed. This era is one of bloodshed (I wish I could change it), one where criminals will not hesitate to shoot cops or innocents to escape or commit a crime. More and more guns are finding their way onto the streets (in my area at least).
In Manchester, a couple of years ago, armed officers started going out on routine foot patrols with the regular officers, in response to gun crime. Perhaps we should do something like that. As I said before in my post, it has to be gradual, you simply can't give every officer a gun, not without training and psychological evaluation.
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superwoman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5742
Location: Sweden
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| Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:06 pm |
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| Captain Dappet wrote: | | Well, unfortunately, guns cant be removed. And even if you should take action to remove them, you should NOT start with the Police force. |
I didn't said that they would take away EVERYTHING now in this moment. The world isn't ready for that... And I don't think it ever will be. See even i star trek ever everyone is all friendy and shlt, and they still have betsy and betsy light and stuff. As long as mankind excist weponds will exsist... cuz there will allways be this stupid f that wants to kill stuff... and guns is a great way of killing...
But I don't understand why every policeman should carry a gun. There are very few in the police who really needs to carry a gun. And I think that if the police aren't sure that they'll need a gun, then they shouldn't, period.
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We will never run out of oil, because no one will afford to use the last litre.
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:21 pm |
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Replying to the great Superwoman:
| Quote: | | But I don't understand why every policeman should carry a gun. There are very few in the police who really needs to carry a gun. And I think that if the police aren't sure that they'll need a gun, then they shouldn't, period. |
That's a valid point, one that gives me food for thought.
Some police forces in the UK are armed, by necessity. The United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority Constabulary is armed because their main duty is to protect Britain's nuclear industry. The Ministry of Defence Police are armed for the most part, due to their primary task being the policing of Britain's defence community. But I don't believe all Ministry of Defence Police are armed.
On the other side of the coin, you have forces such as the British Transport Police, who police Britain's railways. There are very few (if any) gun-related crimes committed on Britain's railways, their main crimes are things such as grafitti and vandalism. So, they are one Force I don't see being armed, there isn't the need.
So, perhaps it might be an idea to gradually arm police who need it most, rather than perhaps saying that "all police should be armed".
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:45 pm |
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| Quote: | So, perhaps it might be an idea to gradually arm police who need it most, rather than perhaps saying that "all police should be armed".
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I think that would be a very good idea.
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:46 pm |
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I also think security guards and bank clerks should be armed.
Just kidding.
American security guards are always armed in films. Is that true to life?
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superwoman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5742
Location: Sweden
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| Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:47 pm |
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| Captain Dappet wrote: | | Quote: | So, perhaps it might be an idea to gradually arm police who need it most, rather than perhaps saying that "all police should be armed".
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I think that would be a very good idea. |
LOL! That's what I've been saying all the time
-------signature-------
We will never run out of oil, because no one will afford to use the last litre.
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:49 pm |
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| Quote: | | LOL! That's what I've been saying all the time |
Ah, a compromise. At last. Why can't the rest of life be that simple?
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:02 pm |
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| superwoman wrote: | | Captain Dappet wrote: | | Quote: | So, perhaps it might be an idea to gradually arm police who need it most, rather than perhaps saying that "all police should be armed".
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I think that would be a very good idea. |
LOL! That's what I've been saying all the time |
What we were debating, though, was if normal Police Officers needed guns, or not, and I think they do, and you think they dont. There are many kinds of police officers, and not all of them needs guns. But I think, at least some, patrolling policemen should carry guns.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:04 pm |
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| superwoman wrote: | | Exalya wrote: | | Two different men, two situations where everyone came out alive, in which the policeman would have been killed without a superior weapon. Both of whom I know personally. Would they have got out with a badge, baton, and handcuffs? Hah. Yeah, right. And what of the women? There won't be any women cops left! Think of it... Officer: WATCH OUT! I'M HALF YOUR MUSCLE-MASS, AND I'VE GOT A STICK! Yeah. Not to mention, THE most IMPORTANT thing my father ever taught me.. |
Yeeeaaah... nice stories... don't you think guns have killed more people then it has saved? If there wheren't any guns then how many do you think will get killed, by guns?
And can't anyone of all you guys se the conection with criminals using more guns and the police using more guns? Not even a little tiniwiiini connection?
| Quote: | | "Never bring a knife to a gun-fight." |
I would say, don't fight. |
Yeah. Guns have killed more people than saved. How many do you suppose were good people, huh? How many? Policeman not carrying guns? That's backwards! I wouldn't BE here if policeman didn't carry guns! My Uncle would not BE here if policeman didn't carry guns! Or my grandfather, or my grandmother. Yes, ALL in law enforcement ('Cept me, but Dad would've been killed before I was concieved), NONE have killed anyone, ALL have drawn their weapons, and most have actually fired at someone. I can't say I'm too sorry about the gun-slingin' convict a policeman kills. I WOULD be sorry for the unarmed policeman shot by the gun-slingin' convict. And yes, criminals would carry guns. I guarentee you, they would carry guns. You think knives are more humane? You think they'll let up because the police are easier to beat? No. Heck. No. And my family has never gone looking for fights. They get in fights because of who we are--law enforcement. In self-defence, I'll take my pistol, thank you, over the knife in my pocket.
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Not the doctor... yet
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Angeldust
The Mob Queen
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 6498
Location: In your most wonderful, screwed up dreams. :P
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| Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:09 pm |
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^I'm with her. Except the abortion thing. But that is a different thread... 
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"You want to dance with the angels? Then embroider me with gold; and I will fly with the angels...and you can dance with me."
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:11 pm |
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...that was my sig. Didn't mean for it to have anything to do with the topic.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:56 pm |
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| Starfleet Dentist wrote: | I also think security guards and bank clerks should be armed.
Just kidding.
American security guards are always armed in films. Is that true to life? |
Usually. Unless there mall cops.
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