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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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 Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:34 pm Murder. |
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Today, my country greaves again too the death of a person who was murderd today because of his believes about the Islam.
I'm posting this as a warning too all people around the globe that we have too stop thinking about Today and live for tomorrow.
Look at the past people and learn from the mistakes made so we can all Help eachother make this world what our ancestors wanted it too become.
This situation the world is in is getting out of hand and soon it will explode, stand still and listen people before it is too late.
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Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Five - seveN
Rear Admiral
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 3567
Location: Shadow Moon
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| Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:50 pm |
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Pft. And those idiots try to stop racism... Idiots. IDIOTS! THIS MAKES ME RACIST! WAAH! MAY THEY ALL DIE SLOWLY AND PAINFULLY!
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Angeldust
The Mob Queen
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 6498
Location: In your most wonderful, screwed up dreams. :P
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| Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:55 pm |
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I'm confused. What is the issue here? I think I know, but I would like clarification, please.
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"You want to dance with the angels? Then embroider me with gold; and I will fly with the angels...and you can dance with me."
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m021
Lieutenant
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 218
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| Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:39 pm |
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It's about Theo van Gogh, a Dutch filmmaker who was against (certain portions of) the Islam.
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Five - seveN
Rear Admiral
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 3567
Location: Shadow Moon
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| Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:56 pm |
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Murdered today. Freedom of speech seems to have become irrelevant.
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:04 pm |
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Wow. Thats not cool. I never believe that hate crimes should be allowed to happen.
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:05 pm |
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Or any crime.
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:13 pm |
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My school is so diverse its funny. %25 percent is asian 25% is caucasian and the other 50% is various ethnic minorities. i dont know why, but we dont have many African Americans
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At Least In Vietnam, Bush Had An Exit Strategy
It was Bush, not Clinton, who ignored the warning signs for 9/11.
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:08 am |
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| Janeway_74656 wrote: | | My school is so diverse its funny. %25 percent is asian 25% is caucasian and the other 50% is various ethnic minorities. i dont know why, but we dont have many African Americans |
So?
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Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:44 pm |
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It's horrible. I was really shocked about myself, because I didn't find it as shocking as I thought I would take it. It's like I'm getting used to the idea, and that's f***ing frightening me.
And I'm gonna stand more for my opinion than before, come on, this is bulls***, that someone's being killed for his opinion. 
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Toad
Chief of Security
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 936
Location: The Great Plains
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| Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:39 pm |
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| Angeldust wrote: | | I'm confused. What is the issue here? I think I know, but I would like clarification, please. |
Yeah, what is this mindless thread about?
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:48 pm |
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It's about a man, a filmmaker from Holland.
He was called Theo van Gogh (actually family from Vincent, yes), and he was murdered yesterday. He was riding his bike in Amsterdam when someone started shooting at him. He was injured but could cross the street to take cover.
The man who shot at him came after him, and shot hime some more. He even reloaded his pistol, fired at least 20 bullets. He stabbed him with a knife. Took a paper, wrote something on it, and stabbed it with another knife into his stomach.
The man who did this was a Marrocan, and a moslim. So there's gonna be more debate over here about that topic..
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:05 pm |
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That's horrible.
I just wish people would get a grip. No matter what ethnic, political, sexual, religious or personal differences they have.
I'm so tired of living in a world where every day, you hear about attacks on people over ideolgical differences.
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Five - seveN
Rear Admiral
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 3567
Location: Shadow Moon
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| Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:04 am |
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| CNN.com wrote: | Muslim row filmmaker 'murdered'
Tuesday, November 2, 2004 Posted: 12:07 PM EST (1707 GMT)
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands -- Controversial Dutch filmmaker and newspaper columnist Theo van Gogh, who made a film about violence against women in Islamic societies, has been murdered in Amsterdam, police said.
Police said they arrested a man at the scene after a shootout. The suspect, a 26-year-old man with dual Dutch-Moroccan nationality, and a police officer were slightly wounded.
Filmmaker Theo van Gogh had been threatened after the August airing of the movie "Submission," which he made with a right-wing Dutch politician who had renounced the Islamic faith of her birth.
Van Gogh, 47 -- who said he was the great grandson of the brother of famous Dutch painter Vincent van Gogh, who was also named Theo -- had received police protection after the film's release.
The killing immediately rekindled memories of the 2002 assassination of Dutch anti-immigration politician Pim Fortuyn who was shot to death days before national elections.
Van Gogh had been making a film about Fortuyn, which was due for release in December.
In a recent radio interview, Van Gogh dismissed the threats and called "Submission" "the best protection I could have. It's not something I worry about."
Police told The Associated Press that Van Gogh's killer shot and stabbed his victim and left a note on his body. They declined to comment on reports that the filmmaker's neck was slashed.
Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende called on the Dutch people to remain calm and not to jump to conclusions.
In a report by Dutch national broadcaster NOS quoted by AP, an unidentified witness who lives in the neighborhood said she heard six shots and saw the suspect concealing a gun. She said he walked away slowly, spoke to someone at the edge of the park, and then ran.
She said he was wearing a long beard and Islamic garb and appeared to be either an Arabic man or someone disguised as a Muslim.
Another unidentified witness told Dutch Radio 1 the killer arrived by bicycle and shot Van Gogh as he got out of a car. "He fell backward on the bicycle path and just laid there. The shooter stayed next to him and waited. Waited to make sure he was dead."
'Outspoken'
In a written statement, the prime minister said, "Nothing is known about the motive.
"I want to call on everyone not to jump to far-reaching conclusions. The facts must first be carefully weighed so let's allow the investigators to do their jobs," he said.
long.search.afp.jpg
Police search the area of Van Gogh's killing for clues.
Balkenende praised Van Gogh as a proponent of free speech who had "outspoken opinions."
"It would be unacceptable if a difference of opinion led to this brutal murder," he said.
"He did receive death threats but he never took them quite seriously. He was a controversial figure and a champion of free speech," a colleague at Van Gogh's film production company told Reuters.
Police declined to comment on the possible motive.
Police spokesman Eric Vermeulen said the attacker fled to the nearby East Park, and was arrested after exchanging gunfire with police. Both the suspect and a policeman suffered minor injuries.
"They were conscious" when taken to hospital, Vermeulen told AP.
Newspaper columns
In addition to his film, Van Gogh also wrote columns about Islam that were published on his Web site, www.theovangogh.nl, and Dutch newspaper Metro.
The short television film "Submission" aired on Dutch television in August, enraged the Muslim community in the Netherlands.
It told the fictional story of a Muslim woman forced into a violent marriage, raped by a relative and brutally punished for adultery.
The English-language film was scripted by Somali-born Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a member of the Dutch parliament, has repeatedly outraged fellow Muslims by criticizing Islamic customs and the failure of Muslim families to adopt Dutch ways.
The place of Muslim immigrants in Dutch society became a contentious issue in the Netherlands, where many right-wing politicians have pushed for tougher immigration laws and say Muslims already settled in the country must make a greater effort to assimilate.
The Dutch wing of the European Arab League, one of several organizations to criticize "Submission" as insulting to Muslims, said they were shocked by the news of Van Gogh's murder.
"It's horrible. We don't know who did it and why but it's absolutely shocking that someone can be shot dead in a park in Amsterdam," Nabil Maruch told Reuters. "Shots and death threats are not the way to make people think differently."
Van Gogh has often come under criticism for his controversial movies. In December, his next movie "06-05," about the May 6, 2002 assassination of Pim Fortuyn, is scheduled to debut on the Internet. |
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superwoman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5742
Location: Sweden
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| Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:14 pm |
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I don't know what this film was all about. (It was critisim agains islam, yes?)
Anyway, even thou he was a stupid fuk doesn't mean he should be killed! And I think it was dumb to kill him. Cuz this will only raise hate towards whatever he spoke critical against... 
-------signature-------
We will never run out of oil, because no one will afford to use the last litre.
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D_Star
Lieutenant
Joined: 09 Oct 2004
Posts: 151
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| Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:07 pm |
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His film wasnt anti islam, it was an expose about how in some places they treat women like crap. (like in islamic countries)
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Kylon
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 292
Location: In a distant galaxy far far away...
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:59 am |
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It makes you wonder why people make movies like "submission".
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Imagination is more important than knowledge.
Albert Einstein
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Five - seveN
Rear Admiral
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 3567
Location: Shadow Moon
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:20 am |
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To show that the Islam is sometimes *cough* stupid.
| D_Star wrote: | | His film wasnt anti islam, it was an expose about how in some places they treat women like crap. (like in islamic countries) |
But those radical Muslims took it as anti-Islam.
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:33 am |
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| Five - seveN wrote: | | To show that the Islam is sometimes *cough* |
Christian can also be stupid sometimes. You've got extremist everywhere, in every religion.
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Five - seveN
Rear Admiral
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 3567
Location: Shadow Moon
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:38 am |
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I didn't say they can't. I kinda dislike most religions/religious people.
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Birdy
Socialist
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 13502
Location: Here.
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:46 am |
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| Five - seveN wrote: | | I didn't say they can't. I kinda dislike most religions/religious people. |
Yeah, me too.. If they're trying to force their religion upon me. Otherwise I can debate with them pretty nice  
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m021
Lieutenant
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 218
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:47 am |
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| D_Star wrote: | | His film wasnt anti islam, it was an expose about how in some places they treat women like crap. (like in islamic countries) |
No, it actually WAS against the islam. It showed how women were mistreated, with their husbands having a legal excuse. 'Cause in the Koran there's a text implicating that men are allowed to beat their wives.
| Belanna1985 wrote: | | Five - seveN wrote: | | I didn't say they can't. I kinda dislike most religions/religious people. |
Yeah, me too.. If they're trying to force their religion upon me. Otherwise I can debate with them pretty nice |
In fact, religion influences people in a bad way. Take the American elections. Many people voted Bush because he was so religious.
That shouldn't be the reason for someone being the leader of a country, politics and religion should be separated.
Last edited by m021 on Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Five - seveN
Rear Admiral
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 3567
Location: Shadow Moon
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:49 am |
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You can indeed take it as anti-islam, but I don't really see it as such... Though I probably should shut uo, since I didn't see the movie...
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:52 am |
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| m021 wrote: | | D_Star wrote: | | His film wasnt anti islam, it was an expose about how in some places they treat women like crap. (like in islamic countries) |
No, it actually WAS against the islam. It showed how women were mistreated, with their husbands having a legal excuse. 'Cause in the Koran there's a text implicating that men are allowed to beat their wives.
| Belanna1985 wrote: | | Five - seveN wrote: | | I didn't say they can't. I kinda dislike most religions/religious people. |
Yeah, me too.. If they're trying to force their religion upon me. Otherwise I can debate with them pretty nice |
In fact, religion influences people in a bad way. Take the American elections. Many people voted Bush because he was so religious.
That shouldn't be the reason for someone being the leader of a country, politics and religion should be separated. |
You can't seperate a person from their religion. It is a part of them. It is not a seperate entity they can turn off when they please. Religion is a fundamental base for one's opinions, and one's belief of how life should be. Forcing religion is wrong, but voting on something because of how you think is not--that's what they ASK when one is allowed to vote. Some religions are radical. That's the only real problem. There are certain lines that shouldn't be crossed. The lines themselves are debatable. Such as with the mistreatment of women.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:14 pm |
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Religion should not be valued over universal human rights.
Religion itself is an institution, whether Islamic, Christian, Jewish, et cetera. As an institution, the religion is vulnerable to manipulation: by the State, by the people, by the religious hierarchy. The point is that unlike personal spirituality, religion itself should be subject to the civil laws, including basic human rights and freedoms, just as educational institutions are subject to it.
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