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Kyre
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PostTue Sep 07, 2004 12:41 pm    

Clearly Bush is nothing like Hitler. However, I fail to see why someone posting their opinion that he is, breaks the rules of STV. His post didn't include profanity, trolling, flaming, or anything like that. I think his opinion is incredibly flawed (Bush is merely an idiot), but why single him out for simply saying he thinks Bush is like Hitler?

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Theresa
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PostTue Sep 07, 2004 1:03 pm    

Quote:
These issues are left to the discretion of the individual moderator(s), but may include any material that is knowingly false and/or defamatory, misleading, inaccurate,


^But it was those things. And that's why forums have moderators.

There is also this rule:

Quote:
� Listen to warnings given by admin or moderators

Although not all 'warnings' given by Moderators and Admin are Forum warnings, they need to be followed. When a moderator steps into a topic and ends a certain discussion, you are not expected to continue your discussion.


Which Kylon seems to have understood, but you have not. So feel free to PM me if you are still unclear.



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Puck
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PostTue Sep 07, 2004 5:33 pm    

Do we actually have to fight about whether or not anyone is allowed to say that another person is like hitler. I mean...free speech and all is great, but lets be reasonable...can we all just agree that something like that is inappropriate?

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Republican_Man
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PostTue Sep 07, 2004 5:35 pm    

JanewayIsHott wrote:
Do we actually have to fight about whether or not anyone is allowed to say that another person is like hitler. I mean...free speech and all is great, but lets be reasonable...can we all just agree that something like that is inappropriate?


EXACTLY. Comparing an American President to Hitler--no matter WHO it is unless he does IDENTICAL THINGS TO HIM (like go on a mass-murderous rampage of all of a group of people). I mean, COME ON! There are other good ways to use freedom of speech.



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Puck
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PostWed Sep 08, 2004 7:38 am    

Do any of the Kerry supporters in here have the information he is using on the subject of jobs? I know I saw someone post something about that we are actually losing jobs but I never got around to reading it. If any of yall know what I am talking about, please post it.

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Republican_Man
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PostFri Oct 01, 2004 8:14 pm    

$87 Billion analogy:
To my teacher:
Teacher: Why didn't you do your homework?
Me: I actually DID do my homework, before I decided against it.
Teacher: That's not a good excuse.
Me: Well, I'm just following Kerry!



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TrekkieMage
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PostWed Oct 20, 2004 3:51 pm    

Here's my two cents (please keep in mind that I cannot vote yet):

Bush:
It scares me how much he infuses religion into running this country. Our Founding Fathers created the seperation of church and state for a reason. I have no issue with Bush being Christian, I have no issue with Mormans, Jews, Muslims, or Christians or any kind. I just don't want their doctrine pushed in the running of my country.

It also scares me that he fumbles so much in speaches. Yes, I know people do that. But to take an idea from my sister, he is a politician. Speaking is part of the job, just like with actors and anyone involved in public speaking. Being able to talk properly is part of the job description.

And Cheney just scares me.

Kerry:
Yes, he does flip flop. But not as much as people make him out to. He is standing up to so much criticism, and he is taking it very well. He's in a very difficult situation. Kerry is trying to steer torwards the middle path, and with this country polorized the way it is that is increadibly difficult.

BOTH PARTIES are responsible for the way this country as turned out so far, I'm just waiting for someone smart enough to fix it. And Bush certainly doesn't fit that description in my opinion.


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Republican_Man
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PostWed Oct 20, 2004 4:39 pm    

TrekkieMage wrote:
Here's my two cents (please keep in mind that I cannot vote yet):

Bush:
It scares me how much he infuses religion into running this country. Our Founding Fathers created the seperation of church and state for a reason. I have no issue with Bush being Christian, I have no issue with Mormans, Jews, Muslims, or Christians or any kind. I just don't want their doctrine pushed in the running of my country.

I don't see how it is. I just see a President who is a devoted Christian, but is NOT letting Christianity run our country. However, he does seek guidance from God, and there is nothing wrong with that. He is NOT extreme.

It also scares me that he fumbles so much in speaches. Yes, I know people do that. But to take an idea from my sister, he is a politician. Speaking is part of the job, just like with actors and anyone involved in public speaking. Being able to talk properly is part of the job description.

I disagree. I think, well, yeah, you need to be a good speaker, but I think Bush his. He just messes up once per speech.

And Cheney just scares me.

How so?

Kerry:
Yes, he does flip flop. But not as much as people make him out to. He is standing up to so much criticism, and he is taking it very well. He's in a very difficult situation. Kerry is trying to steer torwards the middle path, and with this country polorized the way it is that is increadibly difficult.

That's where you're even more wrong Kerry is an EXTREME flip-flopper. He can't even keep one view. His only two consistencies are:
1) Being inconsistent
2) Raising taxes/going against Tax Cuts
Also, his "steering to the middle" thing isn't going to work. Bush pinned him down as a flip-flopper, and is now making him out to be what he is as, well, a Liberal. And if he steers away from his liberal leanings and his record, Bush can and will pin him down again in the next 13 days until the election.


BOTH PARTIES are responsible for the way this country as turned out so far, I'm just waiting for someone smart enough to fix it. And Bush certainly doesn't fit that description in my opinion.


I disagree.



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Founder
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PostWed Oct 20, 2004 7:02 pm    

TrekkieMage wrote:
Here's my two cents (please keep in mind that I cannot vote yet):

Bush:
It scares me how much he infuses religion into running this country. Our Founding Fathers created the seperation of church and state for a reason. I have no issue with Bush being Christian, I have no issue with Mormans, Jews, Muslims, or Christians or any kind. I just don't want their doctrine pushed in the running of my country.

Why do people keep saying this? He is Christian. Thats it. Hes never forced it into any thing. Mind giving us an example on how Religion is forced into the Governement? Don't say Abortions because that has nothing to do with Religion. No doctrine is being pushed on you. Stop being so melodramatic.

It also scares me that he fumbles so much in speaches. Yes, I know people do that. But to take an idea from my sister, he is a politician. Speaking is part of the job, just like with actors and anyone involved in public speaking. Being able to talk properly is part of the job description.

Fumlbes in speeches!? Dear God! Hes Human. Clinton did too but no one says anything about that. Being able to speak properly is part of the job? Where does it say that in the application? You have to speak thats it. Does it mean with crystal clear clarity every time? Nope. Why? Because we're Human and will fumble in some of our words.

And Cheney just scares me.

How immature. When you grow up, I'll answer that.

Kerry:
Yes, he does flip flop. But not as much as people make him out to. He is standing up to so much criticism, and he is taking it very well. He's in a very difficult situation. Kerry is trying to steer torwards the middle path, and with this country polorized the way it is that is increadibly difficult.

Yes he does flip flop as much as people say he does. Bush stands up to ten times more cricism. Whats your point? I don't see you saying anything about that. Bush is in a very difficult situation and he is taking it well. Middle path? Uh huh....sure.....

BOTH PARTIES are responsible for the way this country as turned out so far, I'm just waiting for someone smart enough to fix it. And Bush certainly doesn't fit that description in my opinion.


But Kerry does? What color is the sky in your world?


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TrekkieMage
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PostSun Oct 24, 2004 7:44 pm    

1. I may occasionally say something immature. I'm 16. Personally, I think for the average 16 year old I'm in pretty good shape in the maturity department at the moment.

2. If you re-read my post, you'll see that I did criticize Kerry. I don't think he's perfect. I just think he's a smarter choice than Bush.

3. Yes. Bush is human. Yes we all make mistakes. But if you watch the debates Kerry was ready with an intelligent response in seconds. I have been told (I personally was listening, not watching, so I didn't see) Bush had an earpiece. He needed help to come up with his answers. And if he's President, can't he have someone help him to compose himself beforehand? Lessons, anything to help him make less mistakes? That last statement wasn't a critisism, it was a suggestion.

4. I did give Kerry a bit of a hard time. If you disagree with my observetions, please feel free to make your own. What do you think are Bush's strengths and weakneses? How about Kerry's?


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Jeremy
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PostThu Oct 28, 2004 9:29 am    

I have a feeling that Kerry could actually win the election. There is a new group of young voters since the last election, and I think they're voting about 60% for Kerry, 40% Bush. Also in the last election a lot of Ethnic minorities didn't vote, but there is far more registered. Same with the single women, who tend to vpte Kerry unlike married ones who tend to vote Bush. Still, it's a very close call. It will all depend on the swing voters who actually bother to go out and vote.

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Republican_Man
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PostThu Oct 28, 2004 12:06 pm    

TrekkieMage wrote:
1. I may occasionally say something immature. I'm 16. Personally, I think for the average 16 year old I'm in pretty good shape in the maturity department at the moment.

2. If you re-read my post, you'll see that I did criticize Kerry. I don't think he's perfect. I just think he's a smarter choice than Bush.

3. Yes. Bush is human. Yes we all make mistakes. But if you watch the debates Kerry was ready with an intelligent response in seconds. I have been told (I personally was listening, not watching, so I didn't see) Bush had an earpiece. He needed help to come up with his answers. And if he's President, can't he have someone help him to compose himself beforehand? Lessons, anything to help him make less mistakes? That last statement wasn't a critisism, it was a suggestion.

4. I did give Kerry a bit of a hard time. If you disagree with my observetions, please feel free to make your own. What do you think are Bush's strengths and weakneses? How about Kerry's?


Although I don't think that he wore an earpiece, I believe that it is POLICY to wear an earpiece when you are the President.

Quote:
I have a feeling that Kerry could actually win the election. There is a new group of young voters since the last election, and I think they're voting about 60% for Kerry, 40% Bush. Also in the last election a lot of Ethnic minorities didn't vote, but there is far more registered. Same with the single women, who tend to vpte Kerry unlike married ones who tend to vote Bush. Still, it's a very close call. It will all depend on the swing voters who actually bother to go out and vote.


Actually, I've heard that younger voters tend to lean towards Bush.



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Captain Leah Manzer
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PostFri Oct 29, 2004 10:43 pm    

I'm from Canada, so I really have an outsider�s view of the whole situation. Personally, if I had a chance to vote in the election I would vote for Kerry. I'm just wondering why so many people from America are rooting for Bush? I would really like some hard solid reasons why they think Bush would be a good President, because to me, the last three years haven't been a good illustration of what the next 4 will be like.

To the whole Earpiece issue, I think its a bit more then just a Policy for a president to wear.
"On several occasions, the president simply stopped speaking for an uncomfortably long time and stared ahead with an odd expression on his face. Was he listening to someone helping him with his response to a question? Even weirder was the president's strange outburst. In a peeved rejoinder to Kerry, he said, "As the politics change, his positions change. And that's not how a commander in chief acts. I, I, uh - Let me finish - The intelligence I looked at was the same intelligence my opponent looked at." It must be said that Bush pointed toward Lehrer as he declared "Let me finish."

The Earpiece seemed to be helping him more then just a normal piece of equiptment for a President.

(http://www.radiofreeusa.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3936)


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Republican_Man
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PostFri Oct 29, 2004 10:44 pm    

Captain Leah Manzer wrote:
I'm from Canada, so I really have an outsider�s view of the whole situation. Personally, if I had a chance to vote in the election I would vote for Kerry. I'm just wondering why so many people from America are rooting for Bush? I would really like some hard solid reasons why they think Bush would be a good President, because to me, the last three years haven't been a good illustration of what the next 4 will be like.

To the whole Earpiece issue, I think its a bit more then just a Policy for a president to wear.
"On several occasions, the president simply stopped speaking for an uncomfortably long time and stared ahead with an odd expression on his face. Was he listening to someone helping him with his response to a question? Even weirder was the president's strange outburst. In a peeved rejoinder to Kerry, he said, "As the politics change, his positions change. And that's not how a commander in chief acts. I, I, uh - Let me finish - The intelligence I looked at was the same intelligence my opponent looked at." It must be said that Bush pointed toward Lehrer as he declared "Let me finish."

The Earpiece seemed to be helping him more then just a normal piece of equiptment for a President.

(http://www.radiofreeusa.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3936)


I don't think so, especially since he does that all the time.
But anyways, why WOULDN'T so many people support Bush? I find little reason not to.



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Arellia
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PostFri Oct 29, 2004 10:49 pm    

The earpiece idea is total propoganda. My political science teacher, liberal, agrees with that. Idiodicy. Why vote for Bush? Easy. Strong leader, good morals, optimistic personality, ability to do what's right in the face of opposition. NOT to mention a good education plan, enforcing headstart and parental-oriented programs. When you ask someone WHY they'd vote for Kerry, usually you get something along the lines of; "The BUSH administration has-- BUSH has messed up, and--" etc. What's good about Kerry? Socialized healthcare? ...no...countries with that healthcare have worse doctors. OOH! OF COURSE! Awakening a French alliance! ...no...France was kind of bought by Saddam. How about higher taxes on the wealthy! ...no...$200,000 and up includes small businesses and people living in San Fransisco and the like. SCHOOL'S OPEN 'TILL SIX, AND NO VOUCHERS! ...um...and we want this BECAUSE?!

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Republican_Man
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PostFri Oct 29, 2004 10:51 pm    

Exalya wrote:
The earpiece idea is total propoganda. My political science teacher, liberal, agrees with that. Idiodicy. Why vote for Bush? Easy. Strong leader, good morals, optimistic personality, ability to do what's right in the face of opposition. When you ask someone WHY they'd vote for Kerry, usually you get something along the lines of; "The BUSH administration has-- BUSH has messed up, and--" etc. What's good about Kerry? Socialized healthcare? ...no...countries with that healthcare have worse doctors. OOH! OF COURSE! Awakening a French alliance! ...no...France was kind of bought by Saddam. How about higher taxes on the wealthy! ...no...$200,000 and up includes small businesses and people living in San Fransisco and the like. SCHOOL'S OPEN 'TILL SIX! ...um...and we want this BECAUSE?!


Agreed on all fronts, but I have to add two things:
1. He'll defend our country when he sees it necessary & has strong convictions.
2. Also, on the Kerry front, EXACTLY. RIGHT ON. It's all "I don't like Bush." Name ONE good piece of legislation he proposed? Also, I'm guessing we also want higher taxes and a week military, right? There are MANY reasons to vote AGAINST Kerry and there are only a FEW reasons to vote AGAINST Bush.



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Captain Leah Manzer
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PostFri Oct 29, 2004 10:54 pm    

You really want to see someone like Bush representing your country? I have to say that he's not showing the more intellectual side of America. The invasion of Iraq is another good reason. I fail to see how that had any connection to 9/11, and sending half the Middle east into disarray . The reason for this war, the "Weapons of Mass distruction". What are the necular weapons in America, Weapons of Happiness and Joy? Where did this theory come from, since UN inspectors told his people that there were none to be found. Dispite all this, he still invaded. And What was found? Nothing? I'm the first to agree that Hussain needed to be taken out of power, but did so many lives need to be taken in revenge for something that he didn't even cause?

Also, you didn't answer my question. Give me reasons, convince me that I'm wrong and i should support bush.


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Captain Leah Manzer
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PostFri Oct 29, 2004 10:57 pm    

Exalya wrote:
The earpiece idea is total propoganda. My political science teacher, liberal, agrees with that. Idiodicy. Why vote for Bush? Easy. Strong leader, good morals, optimistic personality, ability to do what's right in the face of opposition. NOT to mention a good education plan, enforcing headstart and parental-oriented programs. When you ask someone WHY they'd vote for Kerry, usually you get something along the lines of; "The BUSH administration has-- BUSH has messed up, and--" etc. What's good about Kerry? Socialized healthcare? ...no...countries with that healthcare have worse doctors. OOH! OF COURSE! Awakening a French alliance! ...no...France was kind of bought by Saddam. How about higher taxes on the wealthy! ...no...$200,000 and up includes small businesses and people living in San Fransisco and the like. SCHOOL'S OPEN 'TILL SIX, AND NO VOUCHERS! ...um...and we want this BECAUSE?!


Good Morals? I'm sorry, but i really dont see how that works out. Yes he is doing what is best America, but is he taking Anything else into consideration? And he's completly against Gay marriges, which i find horrid.


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Arellia
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PostFri Oct 29, 2004 10:59 pm    

Captain Leah Manzer wrote:
You really want to see someone like Bush representing your country? I have to say that he's not showing the more intellectual side of America. The invasion of Iraq is another good reason. I fail to see how that had any connection to 9/11, and sending half the Middle east into disarray . The reason for this war, the "Weapons of Mass distruction". What are the necular weapons in America, Weapons of Happiness and Joy? Where did this theory come from, since UN inspectors told his people that there were none to be found. Dispite all this, he still invaded. And What was found? Nothing? I'm the first to agree that Hussain needed to be taken out of power, but did so many lives need to be taken in revenge for something that he didn't even cause?

Also, you didn't answer my question. Give me reasons, convince me that I'm wrong and i should support bush.


I did answer your question. I gave you 4 reasons I support Bush. Not sure how you missed that. The WMD's are reported to have been there. At one time. U.N. sanctions were FAILING. NOT to mention, the U.N. is admittedly corrupt. VERY. Corrupt. And what are we supposed to do during a war on terror? Where do we go? Terrorists need to be stopped...but where to we find them? Well, you take it to a country. You have to. Saddam condoned terrorists, hid them, and probably funded them. I think that's an alright place to start, don't you?

The U.S. WMD's are not used to kill innocent people for no good reason. Big difference between our weapons and theirs.


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Valathous
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PostFri Oct 29, 2004 11:01 pm    

Last time I checked, Iraq hadn't nuked anyone.... so how are they being used to kill innocent people?

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Arellia
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PostFri Oct 29, 2004 11:02 pm    

Captain Leah Manzer wrote:
Exalya wrote:
The earpiece idea is total propoganda. My political science teacher, liberal, agrees with that. Idiodicy. Why vote for Bush? Easy. Strong leader, good morals, optimistic personality, ability to do what's right in the face of opposition. NOT to mention a good education plan, enforcing headstart and parental-oriented programs. When you ask someone WHY they'd vote for Kerry, usually you get something along the lines of; "The BUSH administration has-- BUSH has messed up, and--" etc. What's good about Kerry? Socialized healthcare? ...no...countries with that healthcare have worse doctors. OOH! OF COURSE! Awakening a French alliance! ...no...France was kind of bought by Saddam. How about higher taxes on the wealthy! ...no...$200,000 and up includes small businesses and people living in San Fransisco and the like. SCHOOL'S OPEN 'TILL SIX, AND NO VOUCHERS! ...um...and we want this BECAUSE?!


Good Morals? I'm sorry, but i really dont see how that works out. Yes he is doing what is best America, but is he taking Anything else into consideration? And he's completly against Gay marriges, which i find horrid.


Yes, good morals. In my opinion, gay marriage should not be allowed. He IS, however, in favor of certain rights for gay couples, which I also agree with. He's against abortion, and abortion is just WRONG. He's for people making their own lives, being able to take control of their future. I'm all for that, too. Why should we do what's good for France? Or Germany? They don't want what's best for us. We are aiding the world by fighting terror. (And, so y'know, 75% of Al-Quaeda leaders have been caught, and 3,200 Al-Queda besides that) How are we hurting anyone? We've liberated Iraq. And Afghanistan had a free, open election, with a HIGHER voter turnout than even our own. Bad? Heh.

No, Iraq hadn't killed many yet. It's not a chance I would be willing to take, myself. Saddam had every motive, as was demontrated in the Oil for Food scandal.



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Captain Leah Manzer
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PostFri Oct 29, 2004 11:05 pm    

(Sorry I didnt see everyone elses posts by that point! )

But WHO gave this elicid weapons to Hussain? Bush Sr.! A war on Terror, yes but not an attack on the middle east. Bush went after Bin-ladin, as seeing that he did not get him, he wanted to look good so he thought that if he brought down another prominant (and yes much hated) leader of the middle east, he would gain respect and admiration in his peoples eyes once more. I think one Bush declaired war on Iraq, all allowance of using 9/11 as a reason flew out the window. Where is the proff that Saddam condoned terrorists, hid them Or even Funded them.


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Hitchhiker
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PostFri Oct 29, 2004 11:09 pm    

Well, Iran or North Korea actually have nuclear weapons, why didn't the U.S. invade them, if they were more dangerous than Iraq?

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Arellia
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PostFri Oct 29, 2004 11:10 pm    

Captain Leah Manzer wrote:
(Sorry I didnt see everyone elses posts by that point! )

But WHO gave this elicid weapons to Hussain? Bush Sr.! A war on Terror, yes but not an attack on the middle east. Bush went after Bin-ladin, as seeing that he did not get him, he wanted to look good so he thought that if he brought down another prominant (and yes much hated) leader of the middle east, he would gain respect and admiration in his peoples eyes once more. I think one Bush declaired war on Iraq, all allowance of using 9/11 as a reason flew out the window. Where is the proff that Saddam condoned terrorists, hid them Or even Funded them.


Oil. For Food. Scandal. Saddam hated the U.S., that was common knowledge. He was re-arming, and gaining money. And the terrorists hate us, too. We had to go after them. We get Kerry in office, and the War on Terror goes all to heck, it'll almost be amusing to watch what happens if another 9/11 occurs. I wish it wouldn't, but it's possible that would be the only thing that could wake people up.

As for Iran and Korea, I wouldn't be surprised if they're gone after, as well.


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Captain Leah Manzer
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PostFri Oct 29, 2004 11:11 pm    

Exalya wrote:

Yes, good morals. In my opinion, gay marriage should not be allowed. He IS, however, in favor of certain rights for gay couples, which I also agree with. He's against abortion, and abortion is just WRONG. He's for people making their own lives, being able to take control of their future. I'm all for that, too. Why should we do what's good for France? Or Germany? They don't want what's best for us. We are aiding the world by fighting terror. (And, so y'know, 75% of Al-Quaeda leaders have been caught, and 3,200 Al-Queda besides that) How are we hurting anyone? We've liberated Iraq. And Afghanistan had a free, open election, with a HIGHER voter turnout than even our own. Bad? Heh.

No, Iraq hadn't killed many yet. It's not a chance I would be willing to take, myself. Saddam had every motive, as was demontrated in the Oil for Food scandal.


Why shouldnt Gay Marriage be allowed? They are people, they have the love who they want to spent the rest of their life with and get all the benifits of a marriage. I TRUELY dont see how that it anyones elses business, no less a govenment issue.
And To abortions, a womans body is her own. I personally do not condone them, but who are we to put the resrictions on someone else who wants it.
Why Should you do whats only good for you? America is really the most powerful country in the world right now. You are in control of the world. So a leader should be chosen who is able to grasp that and is able to make decisions for not only his own country but for the world.


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