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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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 Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:37 am Mass grave unearthed in Iraq |
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| Quote: |
Mass grave unearthed in Iraq
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- U.S. forces have exhumed a mass grave site in northwestern Iraq and uncovered the remains of scores of people.
Many of the bodies found at the site near al-Hatra are believed to be the bodies of Kurdish women and children thought slaughtered by the Saddam Hussein regime.
A pool reporter recently was taken to the site, and the evidence gathered at the site -- a remote wadi or valley that cannot be seen by passing vehicles -- is expected to be used in the war crimes trial against Saddam Hussein and his Baathist allies.
"A perfect place for execution," Greg Kehoe, the head of the Regime Crime Liaison Office and leader of the forensic excavation, said on Wednesday.
"It is my personal opinion that this is a killing field," Kehoe told reporters during a visit to the site south of Mosul.
"Someone used this field on significant occasions over time to take bodies up there, and to take people up there and execute them."
Authorities began digging on September 1 at the site -- found a year ago by the U.S. Army.
Crews have excavated two grave trenches, and officials say there could be as many as 12 in the general area. Kehoe said the bodies were apparently bulldozed into the graves.
"Unlike bodies that you've seen in many mass graves -- they look like cordwood -- all lined up," he said. "That didn't happen here. These bodies were just pushed in."
The first trench contains the remains of women and children, and the second contains the remains of men only. More than 100 bodies have been found from the first location and a similar number from the other.
Officials say it is enough to determine a pattern for the killings.
Kehoe said the victims appear to be Kurds, based on the dress and the personal belongings found.
He believes they were probably killed in early 1988, though it might have happened in late 1987.
Many of the victims wore multiple layers of clothing and carried small personal items like jewelry and medication. One child was found with a ball in his hand.
The women -- four or five of whom were pregnant -- and children appear to have been killed with a single small caliber gunshot to the head.
Some of the women were blindfolded, but Kehoe says 95 percent of the men were blindfolded and had their hands either tied to the man next to them or tied behind their back. Al-Hatra is in Nineveh province, the location of Mosul and Tal Afar.
A lawyer, Kehoe also spent five years working on the Balkans War Crimes Tribunal.
Kehoe said that most mass graves in Bosnia largely contain men of fighting age. Graves near Hatra included many women and children, he said.
"Genocide is the attempt to eliminate, limit or exterminate a religious, ethnic, national or racial group," he said.
"The Kurds are clearly a different nationality. So could it be considered genocide? It could be. Killing, ethnic cleansing, property relocations, all of those were used to try to limit the Kurdish population. What it is fundamentally is downright murder."
Human rights groups believe about 300,000 people were killed during Saddam's 24-year rule, which ended when U.S.-led forces toppled his regime in 2003.
Saddam is set to stand trial for crimes against humanity and other offenses next year. No trial date has been set.
From a pool of reporters organized by the U.S. military.
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Copyright 2004 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.
Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/13/iraq.graves/index.html
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:10 pm |
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Another of many. Shows how evil this man is.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:15 am |
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That doesn't really come as a shock.
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Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:31 pm |
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| lionhead wrote: | | That doesn't really come as a shock. |
Apparently it does to people who are against the Iraq War. According to them, getting Saddam out of power was evil. 
"We shouldn't have gone to war."
I think the alternative was asking him nicely?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:11 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | lionhead wrote: | | That doesn't really come as a shock. |
Apparently it does to people who are against the Iraq War. According to them, getting Saddam out of power was evil.
"We shouldn't have gone to war."
I think the alternative was asking him nicely? |
EXACTLY!
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:17 pm |
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haha, asking him nicely, like that would work. mass grave uugghh, i feel sick.
-------signature-------
When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
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| Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:29 pm |
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| Lord Borg wrote: | | haha, asking him nicely, like that would work. mass grave uugghh, i feel sick. |
Yes. You can NOT negotiate with an EVIL madman! The sanctions wouldn't have worked---NOTHING would have worked with him. The Dulfer Report confirmed that.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:30 pm |
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I knoooooooow it's bad, but it just fit the comments in here so perfectly... 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
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| Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:33 pm |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: |
I knoooooooow it's bad, but it just fit the comments in here so perfectly... |
Yes! Yes! lol
Yeah, and then to get allies: "Hey, do you want to become one of the coarsed and bribed and join us in the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time?"
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:56 pm |
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Thats a great picture.
Back on topic. I knew about this news a while ago. An Iraqi man talked about this. He said that Saddam's men forced people to dig graves and then he would shoot them when they were done. This is sick. Im so tired of hearing anti-Iraq people b*%$h. This man had to be stopped. If you say he didn't. Then your sick for letting someone do this to your fellow man.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
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| Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:07 pm |
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| Founder wrote: |
Thats a great picture.
Back on topic. I knew about this news a while ago. An Iraqi man talked about this. He said that Saddam's men forced people to dig graves and then he would shoot them when they were done. This is sick. Im so tired of hearing anti-Iraq people b*%$h. This man had to be stopped. If you say he didn't. Then your sick for letting someone do this to your fellow man. |
I've told that story--with more than that--MANY times, my friend!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:25 pm |
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First off, I am apolitical. Have been for a long time. That's not to say I don't vote or take an interest but I don't claim allegiance to any one political system or party.
On the subject of Iraq, as unpalatable as it was, I think war was the ONLY option. I don't think we could have stood by and allowed such an evil dictator to remain in power.
The reasons given for going to war were spurious. But I think it had to be done. You know, if you were to fly above the Earth, you would not see ANY borders, you would not know where one country starts and another one begins. As corny as it may sound, I consider people of all cultures and nationalities as fellow men and I can't abide dictators mistreating their people.
As simplistic as the following statement may sound, there are good people and there are evil people. True, there are shades of grey but Hussein was an evil, murdering dictator. The world could not stand by and allow innocent people, tens of thousands of innocent people, to be butchered on a daily basis. It would be wrong to stand by and let evil reign.
Now, Hussein is gone and I think military forces should stay as long as it is needed to help the Iraqi people get back on their feet.
Also, and this is probably another topic, there are still a lot of evil dictators in the world such as the North Korean leader and many in Africa and Asia. Military action may not always be the best option but I live in hope that one day, these dictators can be brought to justice.
Sorry for the long, boring post.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:17 pm |
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| Starfleet Dentist wrote: | First off, I am apolitical. Have been for a long time. That's not to say I don't vote or take an interest but I don't claim allegiance to any one political system or party.
On the subject of Iraq, as unpalatable as it was, I think war was the ONLY option. I don't think we could have stood by and allowed such an evil dictator to remain in power.
The reasons given for going to war were spurious. But I think it had to be done. You know, if you were to fly above the Earth, you would not see ANY borders, you would not know where one country starts and another one begins. As corny as it may sound, I consider people of all cultures and nationalities as fellow men and I can't abide dictators mistreating their people.
As simplistic as the following statement may sound, there are good people and there are evil people. True, there are shades of grey but Hussein was an evil, murdering dictator. The world could not stand by and allow innocent people, tens of thousands of innocent people, to be butchered on a daily basis. It would be wrong to stand by and let evil reign.
Now, Hussein is gone and I think military forces should stay as long as it is needed to help the Iraqi people get back on their feet.
Also, and this is probably another topic, there are still a lot of evil dictators in the world such as the North Korean leader and many in Africa and Asia. Military action may not always be the best option but I live in hope that one day, these dictators can be brought to justice.
Sorry for the long, boring post. |
That was great post. I agree. I hate when people say that the war is bad. We are liberating people who were suffering. Why is this such an evil thing? Democrats claim we shouldn't be there because we have no jurisdiction there. When my fellow man is suffering, I go where I have to. We have to stop looking at each other as different reaces and look at each other as Humans. We are the same with man differences yes, but good is good and bad is bad. People dieing, any race, is bad. If we keep looking at each other as races then we will forever keep each other segregated.
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:50 pm |
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| Quote: | | Democrats claim we shouldn't be there because we have no jurisdiction there. When my fellow man is suffering, I go where I have to. |
I don't like that way of thinking. If I learnt that a child was being beaten in the next street, I would intervene. If I learnt that a family who lived a mile away were being assaulted daily, then I would intervene or call the police.
So, using that logic, I think it is right to go in and liberate people from suffering. Standing by is not an option. I wouldn't stand by if I was walking down the street and saw a man trying to kill someone so I certainly don't think governments should stand by and let dictators reign supreme.
| Quote: | | If we keep looking at each other as races then we will forever keep each other segregated |
Thank you, Founder. I've been argueing this for many, many years. Like I said, fly above the Earth and you see one world, one race. No borders.
Some opponents of war talk about territorial sovereignty and respecting a countries borders. In some ways, I respect that. But I don't respect borders when it comes to the suffering of innocents.
Using the analogy I used earlier, if I heard a man savagely beating a woman in the next house, I don't care if it is his house. I would break down the door. I would intervene. Not because I'm a hero or a tough guy (I'm not) but because it would be the right thing to do.
I wish there could be peace. I deplore violence for the sake of it. But when it comes to self-defence or taking on evil, violence has to be used, unfortunately. I'd never personally harm someone for the sake of it. But if I came across a terrorist, I would not hesitate to use force.
Looking at my post, it sounds opinionated I suppose. It is just my view, feel free to disagree with it.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:39 pm |
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| Starfleet Dentist wrote: | | Quote: | | Democrats claim we shouldn't be there because we have no jurisdiction there. When my fellow man is suffering, I go where I have to. |
I don't like that way of thinking. If I learnt that a child was being beaten in the next street, I would intervene. If I learnt that a family who lived a mile away were being assaulted daily, then I would intervene or call the police.
So, using that logic, I think it is right to go in and liberate people from suffering. Standing by is not an option. I wouldn't stand by if I was walking down the street and saw a man trying to kill someone so I certainly don't think governments should stand by and let dictators reign supreme. |
I don't understand. You don't like that kind of thinking? Yet you support that reasoning for this war?
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Superman
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 10220
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| Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:29 pm |
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Founder, I think I was having a bad moment when I typed that. It was a bad post.
Just for the record, I SUPPORT going in to a country to liberate a people or combat evil. The UN or any other group may say we have no jurisdiction but I don't care about that, as long as we combat evil dictators.
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