Political debate: Make Your Voice Heard

Zeke Zabertini · Captain Joined: 13 Sep 2002 Posts: 4832

This thread has been created for one purpose: to state your political positions and debate intelligently. The left, the right, and those in-between are all welcome to come talk with one another about what they believe in and why. I'll provide one topic at a time to start off the debate, but don't feel bound to it. Branches of discussion are welcome.
A few ground rules.
-Do not turn this into a battlefield. I want intelligent conversation, not shouted rage.
-Be as conscious of the beliefs of others as you are of your own.
-The goal is not to make other people feel bad. Don't just rip on others' opinions, talk about your own and BACK IT UP.
-Remember: No matter where you stand, we all share this wonderful Earth. Everyone deserves your respect, whether they agree with you or not.

Zeke Zabertini · Captain Joined: 13 Sep 2002 Posts: 4832

First topic: The welfare system. Should it be expanded, reduced, or stay the way it is? Why? How should it be funded? Have fun. I will post my opinion after a couple others have come forward with theirs.

Republican_Man · **Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:41 am**

In the US the welfare system is good. We may need to, however, shrink it down even more, in many cases, so as to bring up less corruption, etc. The government should provide some healthcare for the people, but must be small and be more privatized, like it is in the US.

IntrepidIsMe · **Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:46 am**

This may end up moved to WN, just to let you know.

Zeke Zabertini · Captain Joined: 13 Sep 2002 Posts: 4832

I agree that a major problem with almost any welfare system is abuse and corruption. I support a welfare system that supports those who honestly cannot find work and honestly are trying while between jobs, but it's so hard to monitor that efficiently. I support universal healthcare, but limits must be set. Unfortunately, there just aren't enough resources to give everyone any procedure they need or want for free.

Angeldust · **Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:07 pm**

I believe that welfare, as well as many other social systems in the US, needs a serious overhaul. I do not think it is "good". The abuse of the system, in my mind, can be solved by INCREASING the budget, in order to hire more people to regulate it.

I am not opposed to the idea of universal healthcare. And if the government could guarantee quality of healthcare to every citizen of the US, I am not opposed to a raise in taxes in order to fund it.

Republican_Man · **Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:08 pm**

Zeke Zabertini · Captain Joined: 13 Sep 2002 Posts: 4832

Well, here's a bit of a branch issue for you, Republican_Man. Since we're operating in a deep deficit on both state and national levels these days, and pretending for the moment that the budget must be balanced, where would you propose cutting costs?

Angeldust · **Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:14 pm**

Zeke Zabertini · Captain Joined: 13 Sep 2002 Posts: 4832

Where exactly does the government's nose belong? That's the whole issue. Everyone has a different answer.

Angeldust · **Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:19 pm**

Republican_Man · **Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:22 pm**

Zeke Zabertini · Captain Joined: 13 Sep 2002 Posts: 4832

Angeldust · **Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:32 pm**

I totally agree with you.

Which makes this kinda boring...

j/k.

RM, come on, I know that you have to disagree somewhere in this conversation!!

Hitchhiker · **Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:59 pm**

I'm more of a centre person myself, although I don't like what the Liberal Party of Canada (our centre party) has been doing lately.

We've got free government-funded (tax-funded) healthcare, and it works. If it does. The thing is, our federal government just cut a deal with the provinces to give more of their funding to the provincial healthcare system (because healthcare is dealt with on the provincial level). The deal was no where near what the provinces wanted it to be, which is rather depressing.

So our healthcare is great, but the problem is that the system itself is lacking necessary components . . . such as maybe . . . doctors.

Everyone wants lower taxes, but they keep on wanting more things from the government . . . unfortunately, you can't have your cake and eat it two. The only place the government gets money from is the people, because in a democracy the government is the people. All we're doing is giving our money to a common program.

Which programs would I decrease money from? The problem is, there are so many things . . . we need better transportation systems, our healthcare system is broken . . . our military and intelligence divisions are a joke . . .

If anything, I would decrease funding for the CBC. Don't get me wrong, I love the CBC (although not many programs in particular, but they do produce some good TV shows) but I suspect that they are probably getting more funding than they need. Then again, no one is getting more funding than they need.

Yes, the problem with every system is corruption. That, and entropy.

I agree with Zeke about the "die or fall into poverty" part. Democratic society is supposed to make everyone equal, not everyone who can equal. If someone cannot, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be equal. The problem, of course, is that you can never have equality in a competitive capitalist system. There are always winners and always losers.

Republican_Man · **Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:01 pm**

Zeke Zabertini · Captain Joined: 13 Sep 2002 Posts: 4832

I believe that a more centralized system can have many benefits. The trick, and this is something that will be gone over about a million times before these debates end, is avoiding corruption in the system. The more centralized a government becomes, the fewer people the people in power have to answer to.

Republican_Man · **Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:08 pm**

Zeke Zabertini · Captain Joined: 13 Sep 2002 Posts: 4832

I think America's three-branch government is one of the most well-designed in the world. We can afford to transfer more power to the government because of the extensive checks and balances. Ironically, ours is one of the least powerful governments in the world domestically speaking. Mabye that's why our leaders like to pull weight internationally.

Angeldust · **Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:15 pm**

Hitchhiker · **Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:17 pm**

Indeed, corruption is pretty hard to avoid. The more people you put in power, the less effective the governing body becomes. ::casts a glance at his house of Parliament::

The less people you have in power, the more effect the government becomes, but the less it listens to the people and more corruption is fostered.

Even if you have politicians with integrity in power, the problem is that skillful, unscrupulous individuals can still manipulate those politicians, turning them basically into figureheads.

Zeke Zabertini · Captain Joined: 13 Sep 2002 Posts: 4832

Balance is what every country seeks to achieve.

Angeldust · **Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:21 pm**

Hitchhiker · **Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:25 pm**

Republican_Man · **Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:29 pm**