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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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 Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:44 am |
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I can understand the Chechens feeling this way, but not the actions they took. Being angry enough to kill and doing it are to very different things.
And I do agree w/ Powell to an extent. Putin should be open to talks with those Chechens who had nothing to do with this. Or have we now decided that a whole nation is bad because of the actions of a few?
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:57 am |
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Putin is probably not quite capable of thinking straight right now...His country has been attacked, and I believe that if a nation is attacked, the leader takes it very personally, just like the rest of te country.
I don't like Putin, however...There's something about having an ex-K.G.B agent in office that seems...wrong, somehow, to me.
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:06 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | I agree with Jeremy and Pah-Wraith. I don't think children should die at all but the Russians treat the Chechnians like utter s&^t. They are fighting back because peace talks wont work. This reminds me of Isreal and Palestine. |
i agree with this statement but what happened was just terrible. I DONT CONDONE THE ATTACKS!!
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At Least In Vietnam, Bush Had An Exit Strategy
It was Bush, not Clinton, who ignored the warning signs for 9/11.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:12 pm |
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| Captain Dappet wrote: | Putin is probably not quite capable of thinking straight right now...His country has been attacked, and I believe that if a nation is attacked, the leader takes it very personally, just like the rest of te country.
I don't like Putin, however...There's something about having an ex-K.G.B agent in office that seems...wrong, somehow, to me. |
I agree, but I'm not worried about that last statement. I don't like Putin much, but he's gotten better since the Iraq War--but he still gave us the proverbial finger...However, Bush thought quite straight, but yes, the leader WOULD take it personally--and Bush DEFINITELY did.
But come on! This is the nature of the enemy!
1. Attacks on WTC & Pentagon with planes!
2. STABBING INNOCENT 18-month old babies with knives because they ran out of ammo
3. Taking innocent little girls into other rooms and raping them!
4. Massacering over 300 INNOCENT KIDS!
5. Bombing a train station
And MORE!
This is the nature of the enemy! This is them!
It's a WORLD WAR, okay?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Pah-Wraith
Sheikh
Joined: 30 Nov 2001
Posts: 6012
Location: Londonistan.
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| Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:37 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: |
3. Taking innocent little girls into other rooms and raping them!
4. Massacering over 300 INNOCENT KIDS!
This is the nature of the enemy! This is them!
It's a WORLD WAR, okay? |
3.- Have we forgotten what happened in Chechnya when the Muslimahs were raped and their Breasts were Cut off?
4.- The Western World has comitted far worse attrocities with more Innocent Civilian Casualties in Asia and Africa.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:28 pm |
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| Pah-Wraith wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
3. Taking innocent little girls into other rooms and raping them!
4. Massacering over 300 INNOCENT KIDS!
This is the nature of the enemy! This is them!
It's a WORLD WAR, okay? |
3.- Have we forgotten what happened in Chechnya when the Muslimahs were raped and their Breasts were Cut off?
4.- The Western World has comitted far worse attrocities with more Innocent Civilian Casualties in Asia and Africa. |
Not America. That's not true. But to your first thing, that is HORRIBLE! I didn't know about that, actually...But Saddam did things just like that.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Pah-Wraith
Sheikh
Joined: 30 Nov 2001
Posts: 6012
Location: Londonistan.
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| Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:31 pm |
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Yes there has been,
Selected U.S Military Attrocities since the U.S Army was founded.
South Dakota 1890-1893 (300 Lakota Amer-Indians Massacred)
My Filipino Ancestors- 1898-1910 (Over 600,000 Killed!)
Indonesia 1965, (U.S helps Soharto come to power in Military Coup assisted by CIA Operatives- over 1 Million Killed)
Sudan 1998 (Missiles hit a 'Nerve Gas Producing Factory' that turns out to be a pharmacutical plant)
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:39 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Pah-Wraith wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
3. Taking innocent little girls into other rooms and raping them!
4. Massacering over 300 INNOCENT KIDS!
This is the nature of the enemy! This is them!
It's a WORLD WAR, okay? |
3.- Have we forgotten what happened in Chechnya when the Muslimahs were raped and their Breasts were Cut off?
4.- The Western World has comitted far worse attrocities with more Innocent Civilian Casualties in Asia and Africa. |
Not America. That's not true. But to your first thing, that is HORRIBLE! I didn't know about that, actually...But Saddam did things just like that. |
Do you have any idea how naive you sound when you say that? Of course America has committed atrocities. Every nation in the world has, and America is not an exception.
America is not the source of good in the world. It's a nation, like all other nations.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:14 pm |
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| Pah-Wraith wrote: | Yes there has been,
Selected U.S Military Attrocities since the U.S Army was founded.
South Dakota 1890-1893 (300 Lakota Amer-Indians Massacred)
My Filipino Ancestors- 1898-1910 (Over 600,000 Killed!)
Indonesia 1965, (U.S helps Soharto come to power in Military Coup assisted by CIA Operatives- over 1 Million Killed)
Sudan 1998 (Missiles hit a 'Nerve Gas Producing Factory' that turns out to be a pharmacutical plant) |
Yeah, what happened to the Indians was horrible. I'm part Penobscot myself. But I can't really fault my ancestors. I mean, look at the example they had. They were from England, who's history was of domination.
Most civilized nations have grown beyond that, for the most part. (And the US helping the lesser of two evils... what country wouldn't?)
As for Sudan... collateral damage. Mistakes happen. Callous? Maybe. But true. Again, something every nation has done.
I think RM's point was that unlike Iraq, etc..., the US isn't bent on genocide.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:37 am |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Pah-Wraith wrote: | Yes there has been,
Selected U.S Military Attrocities since the U.S Army was founded.
South Dakota 1890-1893 (300 Lakota Amer-Indians Massacred)
My Filipino Ancestors- 1898-1910 (Over 600,000 Killed!)
Indonesia 1965, (U.S helps Soharto come to power in Military Coup assisted by CIA Operatives- over 1 Million Killed)
Sudan 1998 (Missiles hit a 'Nerve Gas Producing Factory' that turns out to be a pharmacutical plant) |
Yeah, what happened to the Indians was horrible. I'm part Penobscot myself. But I can't really fault my ancestors. I mean, look at the example they had. They were from England, who's history was of domination.
Most civilized nations have grown beyond that, for the most part. (And the US helping the lesser of two evils... what country wouldn't?)
As for Sudan... collateral damage. Mistakes happen. Callous? Maybe. But true. Again, something every nation has done.
I think RM's point was that unlike Iraq, etc..., the US isn't bent on genocide. |
Thats one of the sickest things I've ever heard. Mistakes happen? Im not too familiar with that event but if people died then that is a horrible thing to say. "Well sorry. S*%t happens ya know?"
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:47 am |
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| Pah-Wraith wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
3. Taking innocent little girls into other rooms and raping them!
4. Massacering over 300 INNOCENT KIDS!
This is the nature of the enemy! This is them!
It's a WORLD WAR, okay? |
3.- Have we forgotten what happened in Chechnya when the Muslimahs were raped and their Breasts were Cut off?
4.- The Western World has comitted far worse attrocities with more Innocent Civilian Casualties in Asia and Africa. |
How is this relevant...it isn't. This is what is going on now. The Chechnyans terrorists have no excuse. It is that plain and that simple, there is nothing else that needs to be said.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:50 am |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Pah-Wraith wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
3. Taking innocent little girls into other rooms and raping them!
4. Massacering over 300 INNOCENT KIDS!
This is the nature of the enemy! This is them!
It's a WORLD WAR, okay? |
3.- Have we forgotten what happened in Chechnya when the Muslimahs were raped and their Breasts were Cut off?
4.- The Western World has comitted far worse attrocities with more Innocent Civilian Casualties in Asia and Africa. |
How is this relevant...it isn't. This is what is going on now. The Chechnyans terrorists have no excuse. It is that plain and that simple, there is nothing else that needs to be said. |
It is relevant because this is why they are striking back. They have been abused by the Russians. I don't condone their actions and its even worse because they killed children. But they aren't doing this for "fun". They are attacking what they percieve as the aggressors.
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:11 am |
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I'm with Founder here, believe it or not. 
I hope that one day Chechenya will gain independence, so that this violence can end. Because if they don't, this may progress much, much further.
How important is Chechenya to Russia, anyhow? What relevence does it have? What do the Russians have there that they could profit so much from?
Not much, if I'm not mistaken.
The only thing the Russians have in Chechenya is soldiers, and so many have lost their lives to this. Which could be the reason why Russia isn't letting it go, but if they do, it would save lives.
I might not like President Putin much, but I haven't questioned his competence. I hope he'll deal with this in the best way possible.
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Pah-Wraith
Sheikh
Joined: 30 Nov 2001
Posts: 6012
Location: Londonistan.
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| Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:35 am |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Pah-Wraith wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: |
3. Taking innocent little girls into other rooms and raping them!
4. Massacering over 300 INNOCENT KIDS!
This is the nature of the enemy! This is them!
It's a WORLD WAR, okay? |
3.- Have we forgotten what happened in Chechnya when the Muslimahs were raped and their Breasts were Cut off?
4.- The Western World has comitted far worse attrocities with more Innocent Civilian Casualties in Asia and Africa. |
How is this relevant...it isn't. This is what is going on now. The Chechnyans terrorists have no excuse. It is that plain and that simple, there is nothing else that needs to be said. |
Well, excuse me but if you look at RM's original point the majority of acts weren't actually done by Chechnyans so maybe you could give him the same advice 
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