| Has Secularism gone to far/Is this verdict WRONG? |
| My Gosh yes! Both! |
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55% |
[ 5 ] |
| Just secularism |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Just the verdict is WRONG |
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22% |
[ 2 ] |
| Neither |
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22% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 9 |
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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 Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:51 pm A Win for Secularism!!! NOOOO! |
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| Quote: | LA Getting New County Seal
Small Cross On County Seal Will Be Removed
POSTED: 8:12 am PDT July 21, 2004
UPDATED: 2:38 pm PDT July 21, 2004
LOS ANGELES -- The small cross on the LA County seal will be removed.
A motion to allow LA County voters to decide whether or not to keep the cross failed Tuesday.
The county seal motion ended in a 2-2 tie with County Supervisor Gloria Molina abstaining.
A new county seal will be unveiled in about one month.
The ACLU claimed the symbol on the county seal was unconstitutional because it went against the separation of church and state.
Copyright 2004 by NBC4.tv. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. |
Alright folks. This seal has been around for FIFTY YEARS! Come on! This is WRONG! It's part of the tradition and history of that city! Come on! FIFTY YEARS! And it's not just the cross--they got rid of some ancient Goddess symbol that was on the seal representing some portion of their culture was taken away.
There was NO VOTE by the folks and this is WRONG!
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/3559490/detail.html
(I heard about this decision on THE O'REILLY FACTOR)
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:06 am |
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Somebody will probably blame the Immigrants for this because it seems Athiest are never at fault.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:08 am |
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| Founder wrote: | | Somebody will probably blame the Immigrants for this because it seems Athiest are never at fault. |
Knock it off. That's not what was said, and you know it. If you can't handle yourself better, and leave certain topics in those topics, you'll not be posting in WN until you learn to do so.
And to get back on topic, it's ridiculous that it didn't go to public vote.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:12 am |
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Im just playing with you. It just seemed like thats what you were saying over there.
Back on topic- I think we should let some things alone. Including stuff like that.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:14 am |
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Fine, then you can disregard my PM, 
And I agree. Like making a lot of buildings in the south remove the confederate flag. It's part of their history.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:22 am |
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| Theresa wrote: | Fine, then you can disregard my PM,
And I agree. Like making a lot of buildings in the south remove the confederate flag. It's part of their history. |
Yeah I was going to use that as an example. Its getting ridiculous. These things aren't even flaunted. They just sit in the same spot they have been for a long time.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:42 am |
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The ACLU would never defend my right to display a manger scene on my lawn, but if some pervert wanted to come up and have sex with the sheep in it, they'd defend him to the end.
Sorry for the crude mental image, but that about sums it up.
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Kylon
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 292
Location: In a distant galaxy far far away...
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| Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:49 am |
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I don't agree with the ACLU, but I don't disagree with them either.
I am glad there are people who are as far left athiest as there are far right fundamentalist.
Having a balance between secularism and non-secularism, and the mechanisms which promote balance(people who believe in secularism, and right wing fundamentalist) is essential in order to have a free government.
Far left athiest state, example communist Russia under Stalin.
Right wing fundamentalist state, example Islamic Afghanistan under the Taliban.
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:13 am |
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Changing the seal wouldn't be neccessary...I'm for Secularism, but since this has been the seal for so long...They should at least vote.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:20 am |
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| Kylon wrote: | I don't agree with the ACLU, but I don't disagree with them either.
I am glad there are people who are as far left athiest as there are far right fundamentalist.
Having a balance between secularism and non-secularism, and the mechanisms which promote balance(people who believe in secularism, and right wing fundamentalist) is essential in order to have a free government.
Far left athiest state, example communist Russia under Stalin.
Right wing fundamentalist state, example Islamic Afghanistan under the Taliban. |
But there isn't a balance. Its not like they want half things involving God and half things not. They don't want any Religion involved with anything. Thats not a balance.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:33 am |
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Although I tend to favour secularism over religion, I must agree that the cross should have been left on. It's part of the seal, not just a thing that you can remove, it constitutes part of identity. The cross, although it can be, is not always a symbol of religion. 
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:13 pm |
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Just the verdict was wrong. The cross should've stayed.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:29 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | Fine, then you can disregard my PM,
And I agree. Like making a lot of buildings in the south remove the confederate flag. It's part of their history. |
1. That is a symbol of Slavery, but it's their right to display them.
2. Heritage of the city--that's what it was.
3. The ACLU has gone too far yet again.
| LightningBoy wrote: | The ACLU would never defend my right to display a manger scene on my lawn, but if some pervert wanted to come up and have sex with the sheep in it, they'd defend him to the end.
Sorry for the crude mental image, but that about sums it up. |
Exactly! SOMEBODY'S getting it!
| Kylon wrote: | I don't agree with the ACLU, but I don't disagree with them either.
I am glad there are people who are as far left athiest as there are far right fundamentalist.
Having a balance between secularism and non-secularism, and the mechanisms which promote balance(people who believe in secularism, and right wing fundamentalist) is essential in order to have a free government.
Far left athiest state, example communist Russia under Stalin.
Right wing fundamentalist state, example Islamic Afghanistan under the Taliban. |
1. Where do you stand on this?
2. DO NOT COMPARE RIGHT WING PEOPLE TO THE TALIBAN!!!! They may want to FORCE religion on people, but that's not what we want. Just to keep it in public life and preserve historical contexts of it!
| Founder wrote: | | Kylon wrote: | I don't agree with the ACLU, but I don't disagree with them either.
I am glad there are people who are as far left athiest as there are far right fundamentalist.
Having a balance between secularism and non-secularism, and the mechanisms which promote balance(people who believe in secularism, and right wing fundamentalist) is essential in order to have a free government.
Far left athiest state, example communist Russia under Stalin.
Right wing fundamentalist state, example Islamic Afghanistan under the Taliban. |
But there isn't a balance. Its not like they want half things involving God and half things not. They don't want any Religion involved with anything. Thats not a balance. |
EXACTLY.
| Hitchhiker wrote: | | Although I tend to favour secularism over religion, I must agree that the cross should have been left on. It's part of the seal, not just a thing that you can remove, it constitutes part of identity. The cross, although it can be, is not always a symbol of religion. |
Whoo! I;m amazed!  It's great that you can see the truth for once.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:17 pm |
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The confederate flag may have become the symbol of slavery to some, but that wasn't what it initially was. It was their standard. Like the stars and stripes is ours. Yes, they lost the war, but they didn't lose who they are. It's totally unfair now, because some have decided it makes them think of slavery, which I find amazing, since there are no living slaves left, and that it should be removed.
Just like they want to change the names of the Washington Redskins, the Cleveland Indians, etc... Looking for insult where none is.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:28 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Whoo! I;m amazed! It's great that you can see the truth for once. |
Bah. Truth is an illusion perpetuated by the cross-reference of common experiences. I apply my ethics on a case by case basis. All generalizations are false (including this one).
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:48 am |
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| Theresa wrote: | The confederate flag may have become the symbol of slavery to some, but that wasn't what it initially was. It was their standard. Like the stars and stripes is ours. Yes, they lost the war, but they didn't lose who they are. It's totally unfair now, because some have decided it makes them think of slavery, which I find amazing, since there are no living slaves left, and that it should be removed.
Just like they want to change the names of the Washington Redskins, the Cleveland Indians, etc... Looking for insult where none is. |
Sure, I see what you're saying, and I agree.
| Hitchhiker wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Whoo! I;m amazed! It's great that you can see the truth for once. |
Bah. Truth is an illusion perpetuated by the cross-reference of common experiences. I apply my ethics on a case by case basis. All generalizations are false (including this one). |
You can't judge everything by a case-by-case basis. And truth isn't an illusion. The truth is I'm an American citizen. Is that an illusion?
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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