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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
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Location: United States of America
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 Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:39 pm Two Russian passenger jets crash |
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| Quote: | MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Two passenger jetliners have crashed over Russia in nearly simultaneous incidents, with as many as 94 people feared killed.
A ministry spokeswoman said the wreckage of one jet was found ablaze in the Tula region, about 160 kilometers (100 miles) south of Moscow.
Search and rescue teams were at the site searching for possible survivors, but the ministry said none of the 34 passengers and eight-member crew are believed to have survived.
The wreckage of the second jetliner has also been found, Russian state television reported early Wednesday, citing aviation officials. It was reported missing minutes after the first crash.
They did not say whether any survivors were found.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered security services to launch an immediate investigation, Russian news agencies reported early Wednesday.
The flights took off from Moscow within minutes of each other Tuesday night and were bound for cities in southern Russia.
Witnesses reported seeing the first plane explode before it crashed, the Russian news agency Interfax reported.
The government-run news agency Ria Novosti reported that the plane's wreckage was in two separate locations.
The second plane, carrying with between 46 and 52 people on board, was about 100 miles (160 kilometers) from Rostov-on-Don when it dropped off radar screens.
The first plane disappeared from radar at 10:56 p.m. (0756 GMT), the news agency said.
The Tupolev-134 had taken off from Moscow's Domodedovo Airport and was en route to Volgograd, in southern Russia.
The second plane, a Tupolev-154, disappeared from radar at 10:59 p.m. after having taken off from the same airport en route to Sochi, a tourist resort on the Black Sea in southern Russia, the ministry spokeswoman reported.
The Tupolev-154 is a standard medium-range airliner on domestic flights in Russia, according to aviation websites.
Russian authorities offered no explanations for the crashes but said they had increased security at airports following an explosion at a Moscow bus station earlier Tuesday, which injured three people.
"If this were just one, you would look toward some sort of aircraft issue," Peter Goelz, a former managing director of the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, told CNN.
"But with two of them going down so close together, it's awfully ominous."
The incidents also took place just days before a regional election in the rebellious southern territory of Chechnya, where Russian troops have battled separatist guerrillas for five years.
Chechen separatists have been blamed for numerous bombings and other attacks in Russia in recent years, including the seizure of hundreds of hostages at a Moscow theater that ended with more than 100 hostages dead.
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CNN.COM
Last edited by Theresa on Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Toad
Chief of Security
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 936
Location: The Great Plains
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| Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:22 am |
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I saw that on the news last night.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:36 am |
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| Quote: | Russia Seeks Cause of Two Air Crashes
All Aboard Both Planes Killed; Terrorism Fears Raised
By MIKE ECKEL, AP
BUCHALKI, Russia (Aug. 25) -- Russian emergency workers searched through heaps of twisted metal and tall grass Wednesday for clues to what caused two airliners to plunge to Earth almost simultaneously, killing all 89 people aboard and raising concerns of a terrorist strike. Officials said one of the jets sent a distress signal that may have indicated a hijacking.
Trouble in the Air
Russia's main intelligence agency, however, said it had found no evidence of terrorism in initial investigations at the crash sites. The Federal Security Service, or FSB, said it was investigating other possibilities such as technical failures, the use of poor quality fuel, breaches of fueling regulations and pilot error, its press service told The Associated Press. Rain and thunder was reported in the regions where both crashes occurred.
A Sibir airlines Tu-154 jet, carrying 46 people, took off from Moscow's newly redeveloped Domodedovo airport at 9:35 p.m. Tuesday and the other plane, a Tu-134 carrying 43 people, left 40 minutes later, according to state-run Rossiya television. The Tu-134 was headed to the southern city of Volgograd, while the other plane was flying to the Black Sea resort city of Sochi, where President Vladimir Putin is vacationing.
The planes disappeared from radar screens about 11 p.m., and by early Wednesday morning, the wreckage of both had been found - with no survivors. Domodedovo airport said in a statement that both planes ''went through the standard procedure of preparation for flight ...(and) the procedures were carried out properly.''
Uncertainty over the cause of the crashes came after Sibir said that it was notified that its jet had activated a hijack or seizure signal shortly before disappearing from radar screens. Officials said the crew of the other plane gave no indication that anything was wrong, but witnesses on the ground reported hearing a series of explosions.
''There were three loud bangs on the window, like someone knocking,'' said Nikolai Gorokhov, a local resident who was in his home at the time of the crash.
The Interfax news agency quoted an unnamed Russian aviation security expert as saying the fact that the two planes disappeared around the same time raised suspicions of terrorism.
Putin ordered an investigation by the FSB, and security was tightened at Russian airports, where extra security officers and sniffer dogs were called in to check passengers and luggage, as well as other transport hubs and public places.
The FSB immediately dispatched experts to the wreckage to determine whether explosions proceeded the crashes, Interfax reported. Flight recorders from both planes were found and brought to Moscow for further investigation, ITAR-Tass reported.
Officials had expressed concern that separatists in war-ravaged Chechnya might carry out attacks ahead of a regional election Sunday to replace the pro-Moscow president who was killed in a May bombing. Chechen rebels have been blamed for a series of terror strikes that have claimed hundreds of lives in Russia in recent years.
Rebel representative Akhmed Zakayev told Russia's Ekho Moskvy radio from London that Chechen rebel forces and rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov were in no way connected to the near simultaneous crashes.
At about the same time the Tu-154 disappeared, the Tu-134 airliner crashed in the Tula region, about 125 miles south of Moscow, officials said. ITAR-Tass reported that the authorities believe the Tu-134 fell from an altitude of 32,800 feet. Wreckage of the Sochi-bound Tu-154 was found in the Rostov region, about 600 miles south of Moscow about nine hours after it disappeared.
Rescuers quickly found the Tu-134's wreckage - a heap of metal lying upside down in a large hay field, its tail severed from the fuselage. An AP reporter saw one body bag lying near the tail, holding a charred corpse. Emergency Ministry officers wearing camouflage and red berets stood shoulder-to-shoulder and combed the tall grass for pieces of the broken plane.
Maj. Gen. Gennady Skachkov of the Emergency Situations Ministry told AP at the scene near the village of Buchalki that most of the bodies were still in the cabin, but several had been thrown into the field. He refused to speculate on the cause of the crash but said the crew had given no warning.
Officials made conflicting statements about whether the signal from the other jet indicated a hijacking or another severe problem on the aircraft.
The Interfax and ITAR-Tass news agencies later quoted an unnamed law enforcement source as saying that the signal was an SOS and that no other signals were sent.
Oleg Yermolov, deputy director of the Interstate Aviation Committee, said that it is impossible to judge what is behind the signal, which merely indicates ''a dangerous situation onboard'' and can be triggered by the crew during a hijacking or a potentially catastrophic technical problem.
Sibir airlines, however, seemed to hint at foul play, saying on its Web site that it ''does not rule out the theory of a terrorist attack.''
The Emergency Situation Ministry's Rostov regional chief Viktor Shkareda told AP the plane apparently broke up in the air and that wreckage was spread over an area of some 25-30 miles, but the fuselage and tail lay a few hundred yards apart at the edge of a forest. Bodies lay near the plane, but most of the victims' bodies were trapped in the mangled fuselage. The crash was found near Gluboky, a village north of the regional capital Rostov-on-Don.
Siber said the Tu-134 belonged to small regional airline Volga-Aviaexpress and was being piloted by the company's director.
Interfax quoted a Domodedovo airport spokesman as saying no foreigners were on the passenger lists for either plane.
Copyright 2004 The Associated Press.
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Morphy
Forum Ogre
Joined: 15 Jun 2001
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| Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:11 am |
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Civilian targets... sad.
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John Connor
Admiral of the Terran Empire
Joined: 07 Sep 2002
Posts: 15657
Location: I.S.S Emperor
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| Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:49 pm |
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I have to agree you on that one Morphy. Cause it is really sad to read something like this.
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:14 pm |
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This is saddening to hear. Someone named this "The 9/11 of Russia" on the Radio.
* Остальные в мире, жертвах террорисма *
** Rest in Peace, victims of Terrorism **
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Mulder
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 2520
Location: Netherlands
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| Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:49 pm |
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As it appears now thes were just accidents 
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:54 pm |
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If it was just the one plane I could believe it was an accident, but 2... Something doesn't seem right.
Rest in Peace good people, you have reached a far better place.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:21 am |
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I haven't heard much about it but it seems like a terrorist attack as they both went down within such a short time span. It could be a coincidence though. 
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:06 pm |
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It would be an incredible coincidence. Both planes taking off from the same airport w/in minutes of each other, and crashing the same.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
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Location: United States of America
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| Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:41 pm |
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| Quote: | Russia Concedes Terrorism Likely Cause of Twin Crashes
Flight Recorders Fail to Yield Clues to the Disaster
By MARIA DANILOVA, AP
MOSCOW (Aug. 26) -- A top Russian official acknowledged Thursday what many citizens already suspected - that terrorism was the most likely cause of two jetliners crashing minutes apart, a feeling reflected in a newspaper headline warning that ''Russia now has a Sept. 11.''
A day after officials stressed there were many possibilities besides terrorism, presidential envoy Vladimir Yakovlev told Russia's ITAR-Tass news agency that the main theory ''all the same remains terrorism.''
Yakovlev said the planes' flight recorders provide no clues to the disaster. He said both boxes had shut off abruptly without any indication of trouble, a sign U.S. aviation experts said was strong evidence of explosions.
Also, Transport Minister Igor Levitin confirmed Sibir airlines' report that its crew activated an emergency signal shortly before the plane disappeared from radar. Visiting the crash site, however, he said that details were slim because ''no verbal confirmation from the crew was received'' saying what the problem was.
Officials previously said there was no indication of trouble from a Volga-Aviaexpress airliner that also crashed late Tuesday, although people on the ground reported hearing a series of explosions.
Russian media also raised questions about a possible link between the crashes and an explosion a few hours earlier at a bus stop on a road leading to Domodedovo airport, where the two doomed planes took off. Without citing evidence, the reports suggested the blast, which wounded four people, might have been an effort to distract attention.
Suspicions of terrorism came after warnings from officials that separatists might plan attacks before an election this Sunday in Chechnya to replace the war-torn region's assassinated pro-Kremlin president. The rebels have made attacks in Moscow and other cities, hijacked planes outside Russia and allegedly staged suicide bombings.
''I am inclined to think that it is a terrorist act, because there are too many coincidences,'' said Ruben Suryaninov, an elderly retiree. ''What needs to happen so that two planes going from the same airport would bang at the same moment?''
''It's too suspicious,'' agreed Natalia Kozhelupova, a physicist who was out on a national day of mourning for the 89 people killed in the crashes. Russia's tricolor flag flew at half-staff and television canceled entertainment programs.
Despite Yakovlev's statement about terrorism, the government was still officially investigating all possibilities - bombs, hijackers, mechanical failure, bad fuel and human error. Officials said no evidence had been found pointing to terrorism, and no one has claimed to have caused the crashes.
The government had hoped the jetliners' flight data recorders would shed some light, but Yakovlev told state-run First Channel that experts found the boxes in both planes shut off before indicating any problems.
Yakovlev, the president's envoy for southern Russia, where one of the planes crashed, said the recorders ''turned off immediately'' - an indication ''that something happened very fast.''
Bill Waldock, aviation safety professor at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Arizona, said a sudden stoppage of a plane's two recorders indicates that its electrical system was cut. ''An explosion could interrupt electrical power,'' he said, adding that it was extremely unlikely that another problem would cause four boxes in two planes to quit abruptly.
If something went wrong with a plane's mechanical or electrical systems, ''more protracted data would show up,'' Waldock said. The cockpit voice recorder would pick up pilots' conversations as they dealt with the problem, while the flight data recorder would note such information as altitude, air speed, heading and vertical acceleration.
Peter Goelz, a former managing director of the National Transportation Safety Board, also said the abrupt shutoffs mostly likely point to explosions. But raised the possibility that the recorders weren't working properly.
''Given that Russian regional aviation has never been known for its maintenance standards, it would not surprise me that the FDRs and CVRs were not working correctly, if at all,'' Goelz said.
The planes - a Sibir Tu-154 with 46 aboard and a Volga-Aviaexpress Tu-134 with 43 people - disappeared from radar almost simultaneously around 11 p.m. Tuesday. The Tu-134 was headed to the southern city of Volgograd and the other plane to the Black Sea resort city of Sochi, where President Vladimir Putin was vacationing. They had taken off about 40 minutes apart.
A government commission appointed to investigate traveled Thursday to the site where the Tu-134 crashed, about 120 miles south of Moscow. Emergency crews had already completed their work there, but others continued to check the wreckage of the Tu-154 a few hundred miles south.
''There is still no clear-cut concept of what occurred, because the procedure of deciphering the data recorders will be conducted more than once,'' Levitin, the transport minister and head of the commission, was quoted as saying by ITAR-Tass.
Oleg Panteleyev, an independent aviation expert in Russia, said that just because no clear evidence of terrorism had been found, didn't mean that wasn't the cause.
Any other explanation ''seems to be purely impossible,'' he told The Associated Press. ''But then again, absolutely incredible things can happen in life.''
Many ordinary Russians have ingrained doubts about the government's candor after the confused and contradictory reports on the sinking of the nuclear submarine Kursk in 2000 and the still-murky 2002 seizure of a Moscow theater by Chechen rebels.
''I never trust what the authorities are saying, but in this case, I don't know - it could have been an accident or a terrorist act,'' said Yevgeny Skepner, a 37-year-old computer programmer.
Still, Pavel Felgenhauer, an independent military analyst who is often critical of the government, said Moscow would have nothing to gain in covering up a terror attack.
''For the companies, the aviation industry, society and Russia as a whole, it would be better ... because otherwise it means that things are really bad here - we have bad planes that crash to the ground one after another,'' he said. ''The fact that it is not being called a terrorist act, means they have no such evidence ... because hiding a terrorist act is impossible.''
Panteleyev disagreed. ''To miss such a major terrorist act for the security services means to acknowledge their impotence,'' he said.
08-26-04 22:00 EDT
Copyright 2004 The Associated Press.
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Jeff Miller
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Joined: 22 Nov 2001
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Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:57 pm |
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I know this is a bad thing if it was hijackers but lets look at the bright side they didn't have the high death toll like we did back on 9-11
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:21 am |
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Yah, I saw it on AOL news when I signed into AIM. This has been dubbed the Russian 9/11.
And see, I thought the terrorists only hated us...
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:29 am |
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Terrorists have no rhyme nor reason. If you think they only hate us, then you haven't noticed the fact that they've been bombing themselves for years.
The Russian government is still saying that this wasn't terrorism, though there is much reason to beleive that it was. The only other logical explaination that I can find would be that the two planes were fueled from the same fueler (which they probably were) and the fuel used was contaminated (a huge problem in the Russian airline industry right now), if not that, it was terrorism.
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
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| Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:45 am |
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Republican views on terrorism...hoo boy...
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:19 am |
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| Defiant wrote: | Yah, I saw it on AOL news when I signed into AIM. This has been dubbed the Russian 9/11.
And see, I thought the terrorists only hated us... |
There are different terrorists remember though. If it was a terrorist attack then it would probably be some chechnian (sp) terrorists rather than Al Quida.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:16 am |
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| Defiant wrote: | | Republican views on terrorism...hoo boy... |
Actually, it was a realistic view on terrorism. There's no need to throw partisanship into evrything. Such a democrat thing to do, 
| Quote: | Traces of Explosives Found in Wreckage of Russian Jet
By JIM HEINTZ, AP
MOSCOW (Aug. 27) -- One of two Russian airliners that crashed nearly simultaneously was brought down by a terrorist act, officials said Friday, after finding traces of explosives in the plane's wreckage. A Web site connected to Islamic militants claimed the action was connected to Russia's fight against Chechen separatists.
The planes, with 90 people aboard, went down within 20 minutes of each other Tuesday night.
''According to preliminary information, at least one of the air crashes ... has been the result of a terrorist act,'' a spokesman for the Federal Security Service, Sergei Ignatchenko, the ITAR-Tass news agency reported.
No results from the investigation of the other crash - a Tu-134 with 44 aboard that went down about 120 miles south of Moscow - have been announced.
Another security service spokesman, Nikolai Zakharov, said the explosive found in the remains of a Tu-154 that carried 46 people appeared to be hexogen - an explosive officials said was used in the 1999 apartment bombings that killed some 300 people in Russia, an attack blamed on Chechen separatists. The Tu-154 crashed en route to the Black Sea resort city of Sochi.
Despite the suspicious timing of the crashes and the fact they took place five days before an election in Chechnya opposed by separatists, Russian officials had kept open the possibility they were caused by bad fuel or human error.
A Web site connected to Islamic militants published a statement on Friday - signed the ''Islambouli Brigades'' - claiming responsibility for the crashes. A group with a similar name has claimed responsibility for at least one other attack, but the authenticity of Friday's statement could not immediately be confirmed.
The statement said five ''mujahedeen'' - holy fighters - were aboard each plane.
The Federal Security Service declined to comment on the statement.
Russian officials have contended that the rebels fighting Russian forces in Chechnya for nearly five years receive help from foreign terrorist organizations, including al-Qaida. Friday's claim did not refer to al-Qaida, but a group called ''the Islambouli Brigades of al-Qaida'' claimed responsibility for last month's attempt to assassinate Pakistan's prime minister-designate.
Lt. Khaled Islambouli was the leader of the group of soldiers who assassinated Egyptian President Anwar Sadat during a military parade in Cairo in 1981.
Russian officials, meanwhile, said they were investigating two female passengers - one on each plane - with Chechen names. The two were the only passengers whose relatives did not contact authorities, officials said.
Female suicide bombers with alleged Chechen connections have carried out attacks in Moscow, including the twin bombing of an outdoor rock concert and another blast outside a hotel adjacent to Red Square.
Paul Duffy, a Moscow-based aviation expert, told Associated Press Television that he found it ''hard to believe'' that five attackers were aboard each plane, ''but there is no doubt that they had one at least on each aircraft.''
Both planes took off from Moscow's Domodedovo airport, one of Russia's most modern and sophisticated. It was not immediately clear how airport security systems could be circumvented to smuggle in explosives.
Although Friday's developments raised security concerns for the airlines that crisscross the sprawling country, Russia did not order a halt to air traffic, as the United States did after the Sept. 11 attacks.
The Web site statement said the planes were brought down as part of ''a series of other operations in a wave to extend support and victory to our Muslim brothers in Chechnya and other Muslim areas which suffer from Russian faithlessness.''
Chechens on Sunday are to vote for the republic's president, to replace Kremlin-backed Chechen president Akhmad Kadyrov, who was assassinated in a May 9 bomb attack.
Officials had warned that Chechen separatists might try to carry out attacks ahead of the vote, which is part of the Kremlin's strategy of undermining the insurgents by establishing a modicum of civil order in the region.
Security analyst Andrei Soldatov said the reported Chechen connection could bring more suffering to the republic, where Russian forces are widely criticized for abusing and abducting civilians.
''The government will now be able to say that the fight against separatists in Chechnya comes under the roof of international terrorism. As soon as they say that, you can forget about human rights in the region,'' he said.
Details of how the planes were destroyed remained incomplete. News reports said at least one of the planes sent a distress signal indicating a hijacking shortly before it disappeared from radar screens.
That led to speculation that Russian anti-aircraft missiles may have shot down the planes to prevent a Sept. 11-type plan to crash them into buildings. The Tu-154 was en route to Sochi, where Russian President Vladimir Putin was at his summer residence.
However, independent military analyst Pavel Felgenhauer dismissed that speculation, saying the plane wreckage did not show signs of being shot down and that there are no anti-aircraft missile batteries in the regions where the planes fell.
08-27-04 0958 EDT
Copyright 2004 The Associated Press.
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:35 pm |
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...you completely misunderstood the intent of my statement T.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:42 pm |
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| Defiant wrote: | | ...you completely misunderstood the intent of my statement T. |
Ah yes. And knowing you, I always assume you had the most sincere, and pure of intentions in what you say.
Elaborate, then.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:34 am |
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How can a statement as short as that, mean anything different? 
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:37 am |
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OK then, misread the intent of it. I dont care one way or the other.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:41 am |
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Well, please enlighten us, so that we may know the intent, 
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:46 am |
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Naw. *leaves this topic*
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:47 am |
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Ahhh....
Thank you for wasting everyone's time...
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:49 am |
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Never a problem. *bows*
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