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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
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 Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:08 pm Bush: Stop Swift Boat Ads |
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| Quote: |
Kerry, Bush in Political Firefight
Monday, August 23, 2004
WASHINGTON � President Bush (search) said Monday that a veterans' group should stop airing television ads criticizing John Kerry's (search) war record.
Bush said ads from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (search), a 527 group named after its status in the tax code, should be pulled. The call from Bush could open him up to charges that the Bush-Cheney campaign is coordinating with an unregulated political organization.
"That means that ad and every other ad. I don't believe we ought to have 527s. I think they're bad for the system," Bush said on Monday in Crawford, Texas. "I frankly thought we'd gotten rid of it when I signed McCain-Feingold" campaign finance reform.
Bush said that he thought Kerry "served admirably and he ought to be proud of his record," but it remains undecided whether that will extinguish the political firefight that has built over Kerry's service in Vietnam.
Consider the latest:
� Former Sen. Bob Dole (search) � the Republicans' 1996 presidential nominee � suggested Sunday that Kerry apologize for past testimony before Congress about alleged atrocities during the Vietnam War. He joined critics of the Democratic presidential candidate who say he received an early exit from combat for "superficial wounds."
� On Monday, Democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards said Bush should call for the group to remove the ad. He called Bush's decision to do so a "test of character" for the president. After Bush's comments, Edwards expressed disappointment.
"The moment of truth came and went, and the President still couldn't bring himself to do the right thing," he said.
� Also on Monday, Democrats arranged for reporters a conference call with Navy swift boat officers Rich McCann, Jim Russell and Rich Baker, who said Kerry acted honorably and bravely. In a separate news conference in Harrisburg, Pa., crewmate Del Sandusky said he personally witnessed the battle action for which Kerry received Silver and Bronze stars and two of his three Purple Hearts.
"He deserved every one of his medals," Sandusky, a retired computer repairman who drove Kerry's boat for nearly three months.
� On Sunday, the Kerry campaign released a new ad accusing the president of backing Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (search), the group which has released a series of spots calling into question Kerry's heroism. In the Kerry ad, the narrator claims that families are losing jobs and health care while "George Bush's campaign supports a front group attacking John Kerry's military record." The ad calls the attacks "smears" and "lies."
� In response to the Kerry ad, the Bush campaign sent a letter to television station managers Monday "to set the record straight." The Bush campaign letter "flatly rejects this baseless allegation of illegal coordination between Bush-Cheney '04 and a group called Swiftboat Veterans for Truth."
Kerry senior adviser Michael Meehan told FOX News that Bush didn't do what Kerry implored because he didn't denounce the Swift boat ads specifically, but called for an end to all 527 ads.
The uproar over Kerry's service has dominated much of the political news since the Democratic senator from Massachusetts accepted his party's presidential nomination with a speech that centered on his biography and his military service.
Kerry spent four months in Vietnam leading a "swift boat" crew but was sent home after accumulating his third Purple Heart for injuries he received.
"Swift boat" was the common term in Vietnam for the small U.S. Navy patrol boat officially known as a Patrol Craft Fast (search), or PCF.
The political attacks on Kerry have been twofold. First, critics say Kerry embellished his Vietnam record. Second, they say Kerry disrespected his fellow veterans when he returned home and testified before Congress about what he described as "atrocities" being committed by Americans in combat.
Kerry defender and National Director of Veterans for Kerry (search) John Hurley called the Swift Boat Vets' ads "dishonest and dishonorable."
"This is a Republican smear campaign. ... The United States Navy awarded John Kerry a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts. Every single man who served under his command, when he won those awards, supports John Kerry," Hurley told FOX News Sunday, adding that all the members of the Swift Boat group except for one never met Kerry in Vietnam.
That one sailor, Van Odell, a member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, said Kerry was not under enemy fire, as the "after-action report" that earned him his Bronze Star states.
"I do not have a document that says that," Odell admitted, adding that no one else at the scene of the fight thought it was medal-worthy. "I was up at the highest point. I could see all around. I could see what was going on. I fired a few hundred rounds when the mine first went off. And after that we quit firing because � and then we spent an hour in the kill zone, and nobody was shot or wounded.
"None of us knew that he even got the Bronze Star. None of us knew that any of this was going on. We didn't know until after he left about the Purple Heart. And I didn't know about his Bronze Star until about three months ago that they got for this action," he told FOX News Sunday.
Odell also rejected charges that the organization he represents is funded by people who have worked in conjunction with the Republican Party.
"Our message is our message, and no one tells us what to say," Odell said.
Federal law prohibits any direct involvement between private organizations, known as 527s, and anyone connected to a presidential campaign. On Sunday, the Bush campaign stated that it had released from volunteer duty a campaign worker who served in Vietnam and appears in one of the Swift Boat ads. The campaign said Col.Ken Cordier (search) failed to disclose his involvement with the group.
Democrats complain that the Republican Party's involvement goes much deeper than that.
The swift boat group clearly "is coordinated with the Bush Cheney campaign," said Angelo Genova, attorney for the Democratic Party. There is "direct evidence of overlapping consultants, overlapping fund-raisers. ... Here we have Texas supporters of the president involved. Karl Rove himself has been implicated."
Jan Baran, former general counsel for the Republican National Committee, dismissed these charges. "All of the factual allegations regarding overlap under FEC regulations are basically superficial."
All the back-and-forth is disappointing Sen. Joe Lieberman (search), D-Conn., the 2000 Democratic vice presidential candidate. He told FOX News Sunday that Kerry's war record has consumed all the attention while more important issues in the presidential campaign are being ignored.
"What really infuriates me and amazes me is that we're spending this much time and energy debating what happened 35 years ago instead of talking more about the war on terrorism we're in today, about our health care, education, environment, economic problems, and what George Bush and John Kerry are going to do for the next four years. That's what we ought to be debating."
Fox News' Steve Centanni and Sharon Kehnemui contributed to this report.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:57 pm |
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Oh, and Bush hasn't condemned the ads my butt!
And btw, that was NOT just a vacation, people! He was WORKING throughout it--meeting with his National Security team (Rumsfeld, Rice, etc.) This is what he does, btw. He does NOT just relax--he WORKS tirelessly while on vacation too!
But anyways, back on topic, I'm not happy that he condemned the second ad, the one about Kerry's post war service, but he did it, for the most part.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Toad
Chief of Security
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 936
Location: The Great Plains
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| Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:03 pm |
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John Edwards responded by saying that Bush did not say anything about condemning The swift boat veterans. Edwards said that he should condemn it, even though Bush has no ties with it. And guess what, if Bush should stop the ads against Kerry THAN THE LIBERALS SHOULD STOP THE ATTACKS AGAINST BUSH!!!
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:03 pm |
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I like seeing him at his ranch...there is something very comforting I think about seeing the President doing physical labor himself, and moving brush.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:16 pm |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | I like seeing him at his ranch...there is something very comforting I think about seeing the President doing physical labor himself, and moving brush. |
Yeah, I agree with that.
| Quote: | | John Edwards responded by saying that Bush did not say anything about condemning The swift boat veterans. Edwards said that he should condemn it, even though Bush has no ties with it. And guess what, if Bush should stop the ads against Kerry THAN THE LIBERALS SHOULD STOP THE ATTACKS AGAINST BUSH!!! |
Oh yeah! You think that Bush is smearing Kerry! Think again!
And look at MoveOn.org and all those groups!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:20 pm |
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Its kinda funny when you think about it. Kerry is like I deman Bush step up and stop these ads.
Translation: I demand Bush step up and stop these ads that are making fun of me and could hurt my chances at being President.
What does he expect? Kerry is such moron! C'mon man after all the slandering you do to Bush, you want him to help you?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:26 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | Its kinda funny when you think about it. Kerry is like I deman Bush step up and stop these ads.
Translation: I demand Bush step up and stop these ads that are making fun of me and could hurt my chances at being President.
What does he expect? Kerry is such moron! C'mon man after all the slandering you do to Bush, you want him to help you? |
Yeah, but they're not making fun of him, though. They're telling the truth about him.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:27 pm |
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Yeah? Try and get Kerry to admit that.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:30 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | Yeah? Try and get Kerry to admit that. |
Well, they're not SMEARING him--oh no! And they aren't making fun of him. But will Kerry admit about the Smearing? NO!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:32 pm |
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You know whats funny? Kerry came back from Vietnam and saw being there was wrong and that what the soldiers are doing over there is evil. Yet his campagin basically revolves around his service in Vietnam, which he so proudly displays. Which is it Kerry?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:34 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | You know whats funny? Kerry came back from Vietnam and saw being there was wrong and that what the soldiers are doing over there is evil. Yet his campagin basically revolves around his service in Vietnam, which he so proudly displays. Which is it Kerry? |
Yes he "Saw" the atrocities, but I'm not so sure that they were "cutting off heads, ears, limbs, tongues, taping wires from portable telephones to human genitles and turning up the power, ravaging the country side and killing innocent civilians in fashions reminicent of Ghengis Khan--that's the stuff that he was saying that THEY did and that HE did!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:37 pm |
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He served admirably and he ought to be proud of his record.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:45 pm |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | He served admirably and he ought to be proud of his record. |
Sure he served admirably and saved a man's life, but his post-war actions are horrendous as well as questionable and his medals are questionable. He made this an issue and the truth has a right to come out.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:39 pm |
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Bob Dole literally gave his right arm for America, and he only got two purple hearts during his service.
John Kerry got one for a wound that was treated with bactine. And two more for injuries that were minor at best.
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AmyLee
Ensign, Junior Grade
Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 34
Location: San Francisco
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| Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:43 am |
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The attack ads are all lies.
Republicans dont look at the real records they just assume what they say is correct.
Sure the swift boat veterans guys can say "7 people witness no attack in vietnam against john kerry" But those 7 people could all be lying to us all.
Its true the swift boat veterans are releasing a new ad which is about John Kerry quoting vietnam veterans on what they said about abuse in Vietnam. And they are sort of twisting too make it look like John Kerry was involved.
"Republicans have a right to attack? But Democrats are not supposed too?"
"I Say Remove the Swift Boat Veteran Ads"
" I think the Republicans are saying "John Kerrys arms should have been blown off by a grenade.. its the only reason he deserves a medal"
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:43 am |
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| AmyLee wrote: |
"Republicans have a right to attack? But Democrats are not supposed too?"
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Well I am not sure, but Farenheight 9/11 sure seemed like an attack on Bush, probably worse than these dumb swift-boat ads that they are running because instead of being an add...you got to see a whole false documentary! Call me crazy...but I am sure that the dems are doing there fair share of attacking. 
The problem is that no one knows 100% that these attack ads are/are not true. I really doubt that many people pay attention to them anyway. But that is besides the point. Bush asked ads from these groups to stop, what else can he do.
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Toad
Chief of Security
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 936
Location: The Great Plains
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| Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:21 am |
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I would like to make a point. I think I heard somewhere that all the swift boat veterans served under Kerry. These aren't just guys that were in the war and heard about Kerry and what an awful guy he was. There are 250 vetarns I think in the swift boat veterans clan, while only 9 support Kerry. If you ask me somthing is fishy. I also heard that swift boat veterans were only spending $150,000 on their ad. How much have the anti-Bush people been spending? Millions of millions of dollars!
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:26 am |
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Nice to see the 2004 US Presidential race being decided by something that happened 35 years ago.
Go USA!
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:59 pm |
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Tsk, it's the American Way, 
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-Wuthering Heights
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:51 pm |
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| Kyre wrote: | Nice to see the 2004 US Presidential race being decided by something that happened 35 years ago.
Go USA! |
Uh the past always affects the future.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:47 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: | Bob Dole literally gave his right arm for America, and he only got two purple hearts during his service.
John Kerry got one for a wound that was treated with bactine. And two more for injuries that were minor at best. |
Good point!
| AmyLee wrote: | The attack ads are all lies.
That is NOT true. Maybe there is one or two things in the 1st ad, but it is NOT all lies!
Republicans dont look at the real records they just assume what they say is correct.
You are mistaken. That is the DEMOCRATS. Kerry made Vietnam an issue and we have been looking CLEARLY at the record to make judgements--and counting out Vietnam, Kerry does NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT HIS SENATE RECORD!! And why is that? Because it's sooooo Liberal and sooooooooo wrong!
Sure the swift boat veterans guys can say "7 people witness no attack in vietnam against john kerry" But those 7 people could all be lying to us all.
There are SIXTY FOUR members of the organization--so you're calling them ALL liars? All of these Decorated veterans?
Its true the swift boat veterans are releasing a new ad which is about John Kerry quoting vietnam veterans on what they said about abuse in Vietnam. And they are sort of twisting too make it look like John Kerry was involved.
What? We are NOT twisting it! That is NOT true! He SAID that he took part in all those atrocities, and we have a right to call him on it! Have you NOT seen and/or heard him say it?
"Republicans have a right to attack? But Democrats are not supposed too?"
Oh my Goodness! You are clearly uninformed or misguided. The DEMOCRATS are the ones who are really attacking! Look at MoveOn.org, Farenheit 9/11, George Soros, and a PLETHORA of other groups/funders who have done what they're doing. MoveOn.org is the group that was COMPARING BUSH TO HITLER in an Internet ad, and you're saying that REPUBLICANS are the attackers and have the right to attack but Democrats DON'T. It's the exact opposite, because when there is an Ad attacking Kerry, it's BAD! But when MoveOn.org and other groups do worse things, there's NOTHING over that! Explain that.
"I Say Remove the Swift Boat Veteran Ads"
I say remove the FIRST ad. The second one is good, but they DO have the right to free speech, though.
" I think the Republicans are saying "John Kerrys arms should have been blown off by a grenade.. its the only reason he deserves a medal" |
| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | AmyLee wrote: |
"Republicans have a right to attack? But Democrats are not supposed too?"
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Well I am not sure, but Farenheight 9/11 sure seemed like an attack on Bush, probably worse than these dumb swift-boat ads that they are running because instead of being an add...you got to see a whole false documentary! Call me crazy...but I am sure that the dems are doing there fair share of attacking.
Agreed, COMPLETELY. And they've done MUCH more "attacking" than Bush! Heck, Bush hasn't even attacked Kerry, so I guess it would be "than the Republicans." And as I said above, MoveOn.org and MORE!!
The problem is that no one knows 100% that these attack ads are/are not true. I really doubt that many people pay attention to them anyway. But that is besides the point. Bush asked ads from these groups to stop, what else can he do. |
Yeah.
| Lt.CmdrWorf wrote: | | I would like to make a point. I think I heard somewhere that all the swift boat veterans served under Kerry. These aren't just guys that were in the war and heard about Kerry and what an awful guy he was. There are 250 vetarns I think in the swift boat veterans clan, while only 9 support Kerry. If you ask me somthing is fishy. I also heard that swift boat veterans were only spending $150,000 on their ad. How much have the anti-Bush people been spending? Millions of millions of dollars! |
Well, actually, that's not true. All but one of them did not serve under Kerry (on his boat) but they DID serve in his convoy and see him often. And 64 members are the outspoken veterans in the Org, but there are others. And yes, the Veterans' ads are only spending $150,000 on their ads, while the Dems/Libs have been spending yes MILLIONS of MILLIONS of dollars!
| Kyre wrote: | Nice to see the 2004 US Presidential race being decided by something that happened 35 years ago.
Go USA! |
Kyre, WHO MADE VIETNAM AN ISSUE? Huh? It was KERRY. We have the RIGHT TO RESPOND, okay?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:57 pm |
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Did he? I don't know to tell you the truth. All I know is that it shouldn't really matter what happened back then. I sure as hell wouldn't vote for someone because he took shrapnel in the ass in some silly war. Respect him, certainly, but that doesn't mean he'd make a better political leader.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:09 pm |
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| Kyre wrote: | | Did he? I don't know to tell you the truth. All I know is that it shouldn't really matter what happened back then. I sure as hell wouldn't vote for someone because he took shrapnel in the ass in some silly war. Respect him, certainly, but that doesn't mean he'd make a better political leader. |
Agreed, but also, yes he is the one that made it an issue--and that is THE TRUTH.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:15 pm |
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"Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it." Tell me, which one has learned from the past, and which one is trying to twist it to their advantage. IMO, you are very short sighted if you think that something that happened less than forty years ago has no bearing now. The rest of the world sure runs their mouths enough about it. Just ask Sean.
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And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:20 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it." Tell me, which one has learned from the past, and which one is trying to twist it to their advantage. IMO, you are very short sighted if you think that something that happened less than forty years ago has no bearing now. The rest of the world sure runs their mouths enough about it. Just ask Sean. |
Agreed. Kerry said some horrible things back then, and his record is questionable. For instance, in his journal 7 days after an incident that got him a purple heart, he said that they were NEVER fired upon! What's that all about? We can question it.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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